[JC.]

There have been a lot of threads lately concerning insurance and the (frankly) somewhat silly quotes people have been getting and how to get cheaper quotes.

Perhaps it's time we had a thread summarising the sort of things that are worth thinking about before buying a first or even seccond vehicle.


1) A common misconception is that you MUST have a hatchback with a small engine.

Really? Why? Is it because that's what everyone else in your age bracket has? Why not try thinking outside the box before you buy a car that's uninsurable.
Before you part with your hard earned cash for a car, it would be prudent to get some quotes for it first.
As a rule, small engined hatch backs are very expensive to insure. Why? there's more of them on the road than anything else and so subsequently they are involved in more accidents than anything else.

Before commiting to a hatchback, why not consider other options? What about a 2 seat convertible or a mid sized saloon? Even an estate car can be a good bet.


Sure these slightly bigger cars might use more in petrol, however, you might find the savings you make in insurance will put an awful lot of fuel in the tank!


2) Think about what you are going to state on the quotation forms.


a) additional drivers

Adding a parent or someone else to your insurance with a clean licence will bring the premium down a bit. If you get it wrong and wrap it round a lamp post it won't affect the named drivers no claims bonus. It simply means they are authorised to drive the car - whether they do actually use the thing or not is irrelevent.


b) mileage limitations.

How far are you *really* going to drive the thing? Chances are you're not going to do too much driving in your first year. Limit the mileage to maybe 4000 or 6000 miles. The risk to the insurance company is lowered as you are likely to be spending less time on the road - less time on the road in their eyes = less chance of an accident.


c) Voluntary excess

You can trade a higher voluntary excess against a lower premium. Be careful, though. If you do have an accident, your voluntary excess is added to your compulsory excess. In the event of an accident it could get expensive!
You need to way up the risk vs reward on this one yourself


d) The internet won't neccesarily solve all your problems in life!

Call the insurance companys up! Not all companys use comparison websites. By and large, comparison websites tend to be expensive. They can be used as a guide, though? Often if company X is cheapest on a comparison site, you can get a little more off the premium if you pick up the phone and talk to a human being!


e) Don't forget your local independant brokers

Every town has them - walk in and give them a try. You never know, they might be able to help. As a bonus you'll be supporting a local business rather than a faceless company.


f) Whilst you're on the phone - why not strech the truth a bit?

No, I'm not suggesting you lie about "material facts" e.g modifications, date of birth etc...
What you CAN try is this; Assume company A gives you a quote of £1307.66. Whilst you are on the 'phone to company B trying to get a better quote, tell them that company A will cover you for £1037.66 AND they are including both breakdown and legal cover for that price.


g) What type of cover do you really need?

If you're rocking round in a car worth £1500, do you really need to pay extra for comprehensive cover? Try a 3rd party quote or third party fire and theft. You won't get a payout for your car if YOU cause the accident, but by the time the excess is taken into account, just how much will you get back in real terms towards your new car from your £1500 original?


h) Think outside the box even further - Classic cars!

Classic cars are a viable alternative to modern transport. However, you must make sure you go to a specialist insurer. It'd also be wise to pick something with a good spares back up. Whilst you may covet a humber super snipe, can you get brake pads and suspension bushes?
Anything with a large club scene behind them will probably have their own dedicated insurers. They might specify you have to be a member of a certain club to get insurance, but club membership is normally less than £40 which can offset the cost of insurance greatly.
Classic cars with a large following will normally prove the cheapest to insure.
Such examples include, but are not limited to: Original Mini, Land rover, MG - B, BGT or Midget, Ford Popular 100e / 105e, Morris Minor, Triumph Herald / spitfire / dolomite/ Tr7, VW Beetle etc...

Generally try to avoid going over the 1.5 litre mark or, at a strech the 1.8 litre mark with classic or, indeed modern cars and you will be able to find something suitable.

i)
Do you *really* need it this year? It'll be cheaper when you have your next birthday after all! There are two golden ages it seems when getting insurance. The first threshold is 21 and the seccond is 25. Once you clear these hurdles it gets a lot easier to find premiums that don't hurt your wallet quite so much.


LASTLY

Motoring is expensive. That's a fact.
The old adage states " He / She who thinks they can *just* afford to run a Jaguar, probably can't". I'd actually extend saying in so far to say that: "He / She who thinks they can *just* afford to run a CAR FULL STOP probably can't.
Driving is a priveledge, not a right. If you want little luxuries in life you have to be prepared to put your hand in your pocket and pay for them.

[Noble.]

Good article. It's cheaper for me to insurance a 2.5 litre crossover than it is a Vauxhall Corsa or a Clio, purely because a lot of younger drivers are using them, which increases the risk factor.

[CalmDownMrRooney]

did you know that cars are grouped into insurance groups? yes classic car insurance will be cheaper, but to suggest that an estate car would be cheaper is just misleading.

have a look at this:

http://www.esure.com/helpful_resourc...urance_groups/

[matt_rf]

(Original post by CalmDownMrRooney)
did you know that cars are grouped into insurance groups? yes classic car insurance will be cheaper, but to suggest that an estate car would be cheaper is just misleading.

have a look at this:

http://www.esure.com/helpful_resourc...urance_groups/

Whilst this is true, insurance companies also looks at crash statistics when calculating quotes. For example, because Vauxhall Corsa's are stereotypically driven by young drivers, they have a larger crash statistic. Then look at something older, less 'cool' and not driven by young people - We'll use my first car as an example; a 1985 VW Polo in White. It looks like a fridge on wheels.
Because the VW has been involved less in crashes with young people as the driver, the statistics mean this car is statistically less likely to be a write off. Hence the premium is lower on the VW for an 18 year old than it would be for a Vauxhall Corsa.

In the insurance companies eyes, having the '85 reg Polo means the driver is less likely to be a boy racer. Yes its stereotyping, but welcome to the world of insurance risk.

[JC.]

(Original post by CalmDownMrRooney)
did you know that cars are grouped into insurance groups? yes classic car insurance will be cheaper, but to suggest that an estate car would be cheaper is just misleading.

have a look at this:

http://www.esure.com/helpful_resourc...urance_groups/

Yes I'm aware. They are now grouped 1-50. Previously the grouping was 1-20.
Whilst the car's group is certainly a multiplyer that is factored into the quotation, the statistical likelyhood of make/model X is a more significant factor.
Which, is probably why I recieve similar quotes for a Porsche 911 as I do for a Ford Fiesta.

If we were to pit a Volvo estate against a fiesta, the crash average for the Volvo is likely to be lower than the fiesta. So, whilst the grouping is higher, I would expect the premium for the volvo to come in at a lower rate.

Another factor worth thinking about is the cost of parts to repair a car in the event of the accident. Audi panels are more expensive to buy than VW panels. Yet, by the same token if we take a like for like Audi vs VW e.g A4 / Passat the audi has a higher residual value. You'd therefore expect a Passat and an A3 to be very similar sorts of prices.


The point I'm trying to make is that there is no black and white answer. All quotes are entirely dependant on the individual trying to get cover, the car they choose to buy and the conclusions that can be drawn from what you say you plan to do with the vehicle.

However, you can, if you think carefully, use the system to your advantage.

[Emma:-)]

(Original post by JC.)
There have been a lot of threads lately concerning insurance and the (frankly) somewhat silly quotes people have been getting and how to get cheaper quotes.

Perhaps it's time we had a thread summarising the sort of things that are worth thinking about before buying a first or even seccond vehicle.


1) A common misconception is that you MUST have a hatchback with a small engine.

Really? Why? Is it because that's what everyone else in your age bracket has? Why not try thinking outside the box before you buy a car that's uninsurable.
Before you part with your hard earned cash for a car, it would be prudent to get some quotes for it first.
As a rule, small engined hatch backs are very expensive to insure. Why? there's more of them on the road than anything else and so subsequently they are involved in more accidents than anything else.

Before commiting to a hatchback, why not consider other options? What about a 2 seat convertible or a mid sized saloon? Even an estate car can be a good bet.


Sure these slightly bigger cars might use more in petrol, however, you might find the savings you make in insurance will put an awful lot of fuel in the tank!


2) Think about what you are going to state on the quotation forms.


a) additional drivers

Adding a parent or someone else to your insurance with a clean licence will bring the premium down a bit. If you get it wrong and wrap it round a lamp post it won't affect the named drivers no claims bonus. It simply means they are authorised to drive the car - whether they do actually use the thing or not is irrelevent.


b) mileage limitations.

How far are you *really* going to drive the thing? Chances are you're not going to do too much driving in your first year. Limit the mileage to maybe 4000 or 6000 miles. The risk to the insurance company is lowered as you are likely to be spending less time on the road - less time on the road in their eyes = less chance of an accident.


c) Voluntary excess

You can trade a higher voluntary excess against a lower premium. Be careful, though. If you do have an accident, your voluntary excess is added to your compulsory excess. In the event of an accident it could get expensive!
You need to way up the risk vs reward on this one yourself


d) The internet won't neccesarily solve all your problems in life!

Call the insurance companys up! Not all companys use comparison websites. By and large, comparison websites tend to be expensive. They can be used as a guide, though? Often if company X is cheapest on a comparison site, you can get a little more off the premium if you pick up the phone and talk to a human being!


e) Don't forget your local independant brokers

Every town has them - walk in and give them a try. You never know, they might be able to help. As a bonus you'll be supporting a local business rather than a faceless company.


f) Whilst you're on the phone - why not strech the truth a bit?

No, I'm not suggesting you lie about "material facts" e.g modifications, date of birth etc...
What you CAN try is this; Assume company A gives you a quote of £1307.66. Whilst you are on the 'phone to company B trying to get a better quote, tell them that company A will cover you for £1037.66 AND they are including both breakdown and legal cover for that price.


g) What type of cover do you really need?

If you're rocking round in a car worth £1500, do you really need to pay extra for comprehensive cover? Try a 3rd party quote or third party fire and theft. You won't get a payout for your car if YOU cause the accident, but by the time the excess is taken into account, just how much will you get back in real terms towards your new car from your £1500 original?


h) Think outside the box even further - Classic cars!

Classic cars are a viable alternative to modern transport. However, you must make sure you go to a specialist insurer. It'd also be wise to pick something with a good spares back up. Whilst you may covet a humber super snipe, can you get brake pads and suspension bushes?
Anything with a large club scene behind them will probably have their own dedicated insurers. They might specify you have to be a member of a certain club to get insurance, but club membership is normally less than £40 which can offset the cost of insurance greatly.
Classic cars with a large following will normally prove the cheapest to insure.
Such examples include, but are not limited to: Original Mini, Land rover, MG - B, BGT or Midget, Ford Popular 100e / 105e, Morris Minor, Triumph Herald / spitfire / dolomite/ Tr7, VW Beetle etc...

Generally try to avoid going over the 1.5 litre mark or, at a strech the 1.8 litre mark with classic or, indeed modern cars and you will be able to find something suitable.

i)
Do you *really* need it this year? It'll be cheaper when you have your next birthday after all! There are two golden ages it seems when getting insurance. The first threshold is 21 and the seccond is 25. Once you clear these hurdles it gets a lot easier to find premiums that don't hurt your wallet quite so much.


LASTLY

Motoring is expensive. That's a fact.
The old adage states " He / She who thinks they can *just* afford to run a Jaguar, probably can't". I'd actually extend saying in so far to say that: "He / She who thinks they can *just* afford to run a CAR FULL STOP probably can't.
Driving is a priveledge, not a right. If you want little luxuries in life you have to be prepared to put your hand in your pocket and pay for them.

This thread is a good idea, there do seem to be a lot of threads like this around i have to admit.
Another way to get your insurance a bit cheaper: Think about where you tell the insurance company you park your car at night. You may think that keeping your car in a garage, or on your drive will be cheaper than parking it on the road. But with some insurance companies, and in some areas, its actually cheaper to say that you park the car on the road. There was an article in auto express magazine about it (i havent been able to find it on the internet). But basically there has been an increase of thefts of cars from in peoples garages and on peoples drives using the car keys. So it makes it cheaper if you park it on the road. Basically because if you park your car on the road, car thieves arent sure who which house the car belongs to so wont be able to nick the keys. You would have to try it out, as it might not be much cheaper for some people but some people in the article had got it a lot cheaper by trying this.

[CalmDownMrRooney]

(Original post by JC.)
If we were to pit a Volvo estate against a fiesta, the crash average for the Volvo is likely to be lower than the fiesta. So, whilst the grouping is higher, I would expect the premium for the volvo to come in at a lower rate.

Another factor worth thinking about is the cost of parts to repair a car in the event of the accident. Audi panels are more expensive to buy than VW panels. Yet, by the same token if we take a like for like Audi vs VW e.g A4 / Passat the audi has a higher residual value. You'd therefore expect a Passat and an A3 to be very similar sorts of prices.

i actually quite like volvo estates my dad used to have one about 10 years ago. however, as a young driver i think i'd be far more likely to crash a wide, long estate car (as well as having difficulty parking) than i would with a vw polo or ford fiesta. also, estate cars arent really what most people would call attractive

the bit in bold, the audi a4 is about £5k-10k more than the passat, and you say it is more expensive to repair?and also, if the audi has a higher residual, if you write off an audi which is has kept its value well, the insurer has to pay out market value which would be higher than a car which depreciates heavily. so how do you come to the conclusion that they are roughly the same price to insure?

[jacketpotato]

(Original post by JC.)
As a rule, small engined hatch backs are very expensive to insure. Why? there's more of them on the road than anything else and so subsequently they are involved in more accidents than anything else.

This doesn't make sense. More people driving them means more people paying insurance...

I don't think its right true that small hatch banks are expensive to insure given that many of them are in the cheapest insurance group.

[matt_rf]

(Original post by jacketpotato)
This doesn't make sense. More people driving them means more people paying insurance...

I don't think its right true that small hatch banks are expensive to insure given that many of them are in the cheapest insurance group.

As previously said though, the more accidents that a type of car has been in reflects badly on people trying to insure them. Vauxhall Corsa's have huge premiums because they are stereotypically boy racer cars and have a higher rate of accidents. Premiums are not based 100% on the driver, which is why they take into account the type of car you're insuring.

Vauxhall Corsas are more likely to be crashed by young, male drivers who have just passed. The insurance company doesnt know that the driver isnt a boy racer but will make the assumption that because A) they are young and male and B) they have picked a Vauxhall Corsa, that they are more likely to be involved in an accident because thats what their statistics say.

If however the same young male driver opts for a car that has been involved in less crashes, say an old Volvo 750, the insurance company only penalizes the driver because they are young, rather than because they also have an accident prone car.

Insurance companies don't know if you're a boy racer, so don't pick a car which will make them think you are one.

[jacketpotato]

(Original post by matt_rf)
As previously said though, the more accidents that a type of car has been in reflects badly on people trying to insure them. Vauxhall Corsa's have huge premiums because they are stereotypically boy racer cars and have a higher rate of accidents. Premiums are not based 100% on the driver, which is why they take into account the type of car you're insuring.

Vauxhall Corsas are more likely to be crashed by young, male drivers who have just passed. The insurance company doesnt know that the driver isnt a boy racer but will make the assumption that because A) they are young and male and B) they have picked a Vauxhall Corsa, that they are more likely to be involved in an accident because thats what their statistics say.

If however the same young male driver opts for a car that has been involved in less crashes, say an old Volvo 750, the insurance company only penalizes the driver because they are young, rather than because they also have an accident prone car.

Insurance companies don't know if you're a boy racer, so don't pick a car which will make them think you are one.

I see your point, and this does explain why some hatchbacks can be in slightly higher insurance groups than you'd expect, but "hatchback = boy racer = expensive" isn't quite true. Corsa's can be groups 1-16, so a Corsa can be one of the cheapest cars to insure. Generally other hatchbacks are also in very low insurance groups. You don't need to get an old Volvo 750 (with all the problems that entails for young drivers who don't know much about cars) to minimise your insurance.

[matt_rf]

(Original post by jacketpotato)
I see your point, and this does explain why some hatchbacks can be in slightly higher insurance groups than you'd expect, but "hatchback = boy racer = expensive" isn't quite true. Corsa's can be groups 1-16, so a Corsa can be one of the cheapest cars to insure. Generally other hatchbacks are also in very low insurance groups. You don't need to get an old Volvo 750 (with all the problems that entails for young drivers who don't know much about cars) to minimise your insurance.

Very true.

To be fair, I was only using the Corsa as an example but I take your point
I don't really take much interest in insurance groups because from my experience, the system doesnt always come right. My family has a VW people carrier and I have my own policy for it. It is a group 22 car, but even that premium is still cheaper than if I was to take out one on your bog standard group 2 Vauxhall Corsa.

EDIT: My point being that a Diesel Auto VW Sharan is defo not a cool, boy racer type car

[gbduo]

People are confusing mathematical statistical analysis employed by insurance companies with common sense. That is the root of most peoples misunderstanding of how insurance companies work.

[gbduo]

Oh and how do we make this a sticky? Minardi, where art thou?

[Minardi]

(Original post by gbduo)
Oh and how do we make this a sticky? Minardi, where art thou?

Here

I'm not modding any more, but I'll pull some levers and see what I can do!

[Motorbiker]

(Original post by gbduo)
Oh and how do we make this a sticky? Minardi, where art thou?

(Original post by Minardi)
Here

I'm not modding any more, but I'll pull some levers and see what I can do!

Sorted now.

In my defense i was on holiday for 8 weeks so completely missed this thread first time around.

Not that anyone ever reads the stickies at all but it's in the sticky of useful threads now.

[Erich Hartmann]

(Original post by MHorman)
Sorted now.

In my defense i was on holiday for 8 weeks so completely missed this thread first time around.

Not that anyone ever reads the stickies at all but it's in the sticky of useful threads now.

Still on holiday or back now?

How was SE Asia?

[Motorbiker]

(Original post by Erich Hartmann)
Still on holiday or back now?

How was SE Asia?

Back now. Home in devon for a week and moving back to uni in a week.

Awesome. Did all the standard cultural stuff. Diving was awesome. Went on 10 dives and am now an open water diver. Nemo bit me and saw stuff like stingray/giant barracudas/moray eels etc. Very cool...

[liamharries]

I have a classic mini from 1971 with a non standard modified larger engine im 18 had full licence for 3 months and I got a quote from Adrian Flux for £1067.95 as owner main driver with no other named drivers as adding my dad made it much more expensive (3K more expensive). just a shame keeping the thing on the road cost about 1.5-2k a year but that's what you get with old cars (especially mini's).

[gbduo]

Adrian Flux has become rubbish recently.

Try:-

Sureterm
Sky
Chris Knott
Footman James

[JC.]

(Original post by gbduo)
Adrian Flux has become rubbish recently.

For you perhaps? I've always found them quite competitive on price, although not neccesarily the best policys.
They are covering my MG this year, though. I got a cracking deal: £126. fully comp all mods declared with an agreed valuation, accruing NCB and drive other cars clause, limited mileage of 4000 and I know I won't do anywhere near that in it.

Back when I had an '81 Porsche 911 Super Carrera 3.0 litre they managed to cover that for around £640 quid, too.