[tehFrance]

I am not trolling, I take that as an affront. I am quite proud of my accomplishments, yes I am a snob and arrogant but would you be as well if you have what I do?

[bun]

(Original post by obi_adorno_kenobi)
Sponges in society? Really. Confidence evapourated in villages like the one I grew up in. A century ago, the South Wales Valleys were one of the most confident places in the world - we built hospitals, great institutes and libraries, cinemas, universities, and so forth, all from the power of work. No state involvement just mutualism and a collective purpose. Now look at them - ridden with poverty, poor health, failing hospitals and schools. Thatcher drained the last vestiges of confidence from a society that was once so very proud.

This comes from an interview on ITN with one woman in the Rhondda in November 1984:

"If you were to go along the road and say to those young boys, what would you rather do, would you rather go and sign the dole or would you rather go to work at the colliery? They'll answer you: I'd rather go to work at the colliery. I know of boys who have walked up to that colliery to put their names down, begging to be taken on"

Begging to be taken on. Sponges in society eh.

Sounds like you should be a Conservative, considering what you wrote just there!
And this is a completely different topic. One on which I agree completely with you. She did destroy these communities. However, at the same time, it has allowed parts of Wales to move forward. Other parts have been destroyed completely though, which is not a good thing. My point was not about this though - the person you have quoted is obviously not a sponge - actively seeking work. I'm on about people like my uncles, unemployed, with absolutely no reason to be, and can't be bothered looking for another job after they were made redunant.
And my actual point was other countries having confidence in Britain, which in turn made the pound stronger, and made us more of an international force. I never tried to claim that internally Britain was a confient, booming nation.

[Ham and Cheese]

(Original post by tehFrance)
I am not trolling, I take that as an affront. I am quite proud of my accomplishments, yes I am a snob and arrogant but would you be as well if you have what I do?

Oh wow, you do not do yourself any favours do you?

[tehFrance]

(Original post by Ham and Cheese)
Oh wow, you do not do yourself any favours do you?

I know how to put my foot in it and seeing as it is already there I may as well keep it there

[obi_adorno_kenobi]

(Original post by bun)
Sounds like you should be a Conservative, considering what you wrote just there!

Oh no. It's a complete misreading of socialist thought in this country to consider the state as the final solution. Statist approaches only really triumphed over mutualism in the late-1930s / 1940s. Until that point it had all been about co-operation and collective action. Keir Hardie was not a statist, for instance. Let's not forget that for most of human history, the state has been the enemy of, not the friend of, ordinary people. Conservatives believe in the power of business to replace the state; leftists believe in the power of collective action to replace the state.

[JPKC]

Why do people care? Some people are snobs, some people are humble - most of the time proud people have something to be proud about, and it's jealousy that causes people to make it into some kind of abstract cultural sin of arrogancy. Accomplishments should be celebrated, pride is fine.

Obviously it's distasteful but even if it is you're not supposed to point that out and use it against someone.

[Moleman1996]

(Original post by tehFrance)
I know how to put my foot in it and seeing as it is already there I may as well keep it there

oddly enough, that's Robert Huth's philosophy when going in for a tackle

[Metrobeans]

(Original post by tehFrance)
I am not trolling, I take that as an affront. I am quite proud of my accomplishments, yes I am a snob and arrogant but would you be as well if you have what I do?

One of the privileges of my placement is that it involves interaction with the politicians who make our laws and appear on television.

The majority of the time, I'm speaking with people you wouldn't have heard of, but on those occasions when I'm talking to people who have achieved great office, I'm often pleasantly surprised by how down-to-earth they are. The former Cabinet Secretary Sir Gus (now Lord) O'Donnell is a perfect example. On the one occasion I had the need to speak to him, he was perfectly pleasant, didn't mind chatting and was humble. I don't agree at all that success and wealth should lead to snobbery and arrogance.

Though achievements should be celebrated and running a successful business is certainly something to be proud of, I think to talk about having wealth and good-looks to the extent that we're having this conversation now is indicative of your narcissistic personality. And that isn't a positive trait.

[StatusRed]

(Original post by Metrobeans)
The former Cabinet Secretary Sir Gus (now Lord) O'Donnell is a perfect example. On the one occasion I had the need to speak to him, he was perfectly pleasant, didn't mind chatting and was humble. I don't agree at all that success and wealth should lead to snobbery and arrogance.

Well Gus O'Donnell is from a humble background for a start, he learnt to appreciate things and not take everything for granted.

[obi_adorno_kenobi]

(Original post by xXedixXx)
Any plans to rejoin TSR Labour?

From what I've seen of Labour on here at the moment, I don't think it's the right place for me.

[ByronicHero]

(Original post by obi_adorno_kenobi)
From what I've seen of Labour on here at the moment, I don't think it's the right place for me.

Hater.

[obi_adorno_kenobi]

(Original post by paddy__power)
Hater.

Not hate so much as disenfranchisement really. The only party anywhere near me politically are the fairly moribund socialists though they tend towards stalinist approaches which I don't like that much (except with regard to education). It mirrors something of a crisis of politics in real life I suppose. I'm no longer in Labour and find myself without adequate representation. In parliament I quite like Caroline Lucas and Jonathan Davies (Plaid MP for Carmarthen) but would take bits out of both their programmes and certainly wouldn't hold to their whole manifesto.

[ByronicHero]

(Original post by obi_adorno_kenobi)
Not hate so much as disenfranchisement really. The only party anywhere near me politically are the fairly moribund socialists though they tend towards stalinist approaches which I don't like that much (except with regard to education). It mirrors something of a crisis of politics in real life I suppose. I'm no longer in Labour and find myself without adequate representation. In parliament I quite like Caroline Lucas and Jonathan Davies (Plaid MP for Carmarthen) but would take bits out of both their programmes and certainly wouldn't hold to their whole manifesto.

You finally left in the end then

[Morgsie]

I have Stephen Gilbert MP following me on Twitter.

[ByronicHero]

(Original post by Morgsie)
I have Stephen Gilbert MP following me on Twitter.

I have Warsi following me

[JPKC]

(Original post by Metrobeans)
One of the privileges of my placement is that it involves interaction with the politicians who make our laws and appear on television.

The majority of the time, I'm speaking with people you wouldn't have heard of, but on those occasions when I'm talking to people who have achieved great office, I'm often pleasantly surprised by how down-to-earth they are. The former Cabinet Secretary Sir Gus (now Lord) O'Donnell is a perfect example. On the one occasion I had the need to speak to him, he was perfectly pleasant, didn't mind chatting and was humble. I don't agree at all that success and wealth should lead to snobbery and arrogance.

Though achievements should be celebrated and running a successful business is certainly something to be proud of, I think to talk about having wealth and good-looks to the extent that we're having this conversation now is indicative of your narcissistic personality. And that isn't a positive trait.

What's your placement?

[paperclip]

(Original post by JPKC)
Why do people care? Some people are snobs, some people are humble - most of the time proud people have something to be proud about, and it's jealousy that causes people to make it into some kind of abstract cultural sin of arrogancy. Accomplishments should be celebrated, pride is fine.

Obviously it's distasteful but even if it is you're not supposed to point that out and use it against someone.

There is a fine line between arrogance and being proud.

When someone constantly mentions their achievements it's not usually because they're proud (proud people tend to be more humble) but because they have low self-esteem, they're overcompensating (or - there's an incongruence between their implicit and explicit self-esteem, which, incidentally, meditation is a suggested 'cure' for). Arrogant people having something to prove; rather than you or i whom let people interpret their behaviour and form an opinion of based on behaviour, tehfrance feels the need to rub peoples noses in it. What's worse is that this is only an internet forum, his self-esteem must be quite low to feel the need to constantly put us down.

And yes, i say put us down. Not because i'm jealous, but because in his mind that's clearly what he's doing - why mention it so frequently otherwise? Would he be doing so as often around people more successful than us? He knows he can out do us, and wants to make that quite clear to us. There are many things that i've done that i am proud of, and i assume you are the same? How many times have you mentioned them on this forum? To your friends?

It's also behaviour typical of a coke-head, i've mentioned this before (though i was more diplomatic. Tehfrance is a ****).

And why not use it against someone? Sorry, if they're quite clearly gaining fulfilment from making others feel bad then they are a dick head. I wouldn't go up to someone who'd failed their GCSEs and highlight that i'm at university all the time. People do need to think who they're talking to, and a little bit of self-censorship is never a bad thing.

Calling him arrogant, and then living up to the label just highlights the fact that he wants to be seen that way.

[StatusRed]

(Original post by obi_adorno_kenobi)
From what I've seen of Labour on here at the moment, I don't think it's the right place for me.

Socialists then? I quite enjoyed you being in Labour and thought that you had a hell of a lot to offer the party, I know at first you despised me being in but I hope you've got to know me a bit now.

[obi_adorno_kenobi]

(Original post by xXedixXx)
Socialists then? I quite enjoyed you being in Labour and thought that you had a hell of a lot to offer the party, I know at first you despised me being in but I hope you've got to know me a bit now.

Haha, haha, no I'm not joining the TSR branch of the SWP. I'll stand out on my own, it's easier that way. I don't have much time for the politics of New Labour and that is what TSR Labour has become again. And it's doing it not very cleverly as well.

[Metrobeans]

(Original post by JPKC)
What's your placement?

Sandwich student in Parliament's IT department.