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Mohammedan Theory of Evolution

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    (Original post by Darth Stewie)
    Just ordered it from amazon

    Will definitely make for a good read, sad that the Islamic world didn’t carry on this research, they were really onto something
    Wow, you're a budding scholar. Can you link me to the book on Amazon please? I want to see if it's the same one we had in school and can't find it strangely.

    It is a shame - though that's life I guess. Many instances of being so close but not quite close enough.

    (Original post by IceWater)
    I'm sure scholars and speakers or whatever they call themselves these days will claim that Islam supports microevolution (it is almost impossible to deny it). However I have heard of barely any Muslim that supports evolution of man, mainly because of Adam. The Hadith state very clearly that Allah created Adam from dust.

    Oh and by the way, what sort of law are you planning to go into? I've been reading some jurisprudence lately, very interesting subject must be fun to learn. Though the idea of practising of law (as a solicitor) is my idea of absolute torture.
    Well self-proclaimed Islamic scholars are a dime a dozen. Goes for every religion too. And remember, it is an important teaching of Islam that no man is higher than any other in his reading of the Qur'an - some may be more educated and have more experience in their studies but they are not more 'qualified' to say what Islam is and is not according to their own convictions.

    I would be very wary of what you hear from so-called clerics and self-appointed scholars on the issue.

    On law - I've been heavily warned for going off-topic by a certain mod so I won't fully reply to that here. Although I don't want to practice as a solicitor, I had a couple weeks of work experience earlier this summer at one of the big firms in London (magic circle - one of the 'big five') and it wasn't as I expected. It seemed like the solicitors I was with really enjoyed it and got a thrill out of every successful job, though they could have just put me with the guys they knew would be enthusiastic and in the rest of the company are solicitor-drones ready to kill themselves. :p: Who knows?
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    It wasn't particulary new, although it's interesting, it's not that impressive.
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    it's not quite right. it's like saying giraffes got long necks because their ancestors stretched their necks. not really true. what's missing is that the offspring of parents have random mutations.... and those most suited to the environment survived.
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    (Original post by noobynoo)
    it's not quite right. it's like saying giraffes got long necks because their ancestors stretched their necks. not really true. what's missing is that the offspring of parents have random mutations.... and those most suited to the environment survived.
    That's exactly what Lamarck proposed in the inheritance of acquired characteristics. I didn't know a similar theory had been proposed earlier.
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    (Original post by Ferdowsi)
    That's exactly what Lamarck proposed in the inheritance of acquired characteristics. I didn't know a similar theory had been proposed earlier.
    2 wrongs don't make a right.

    (Hehe I'm being silly)
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    evolutionary thought goes back way further to the time of the ancient greeks. most of what muslims attribute to "enlightened and independent thought" is actually taken from concepts that have been going around for centuries earlier.
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    (Original post by Aj12)
    Seems pretty advanced given the time, always thought Islam was quite heavily against evolution though
    depends on interpretation... in the Quran it says 'we are evolver' so its all up to you Islams about you and God no one else tbh
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    Good day to all, I am definitely willing to join the fun that students of philosophy are having. I am a phD candidate in the faculty of Education at the University of Toronto in Toronto Canada. I happened to be searching the issue of Muslim scientists and thinkers who formulated a full fledged concept of Evolution way before Darwin when I came across your dynamic interactive group and seeing that there is something I can add to your discussion I decided to join. I see some entertaining the idea that the Muslim scientists did not include the evolution of man. Here is a quotation from the book of Ibn Khaldun (14th century, 400 yrs before Darwin) "Al-Muqadimah" i.e. "the Introduction" (p. 75) where he wrote the following after linking minerals to planta to animal in a creative evolutionary chain:

    "the animal world then widens, its species become numerous, and, in a gradual process of creation , it finaly leads to man, who is able to think and reflect. The higher stage of man is reached from the world of monkeys.". And by the way this is not the work of one or two prominent thinkers and scientists of their time, it is also the conceptualizations of the following and more: Al-Biruni (973-1048), Ibn Mikawayh (932-1030), Tusi (1201-1274), Ibn Kathir (1301-1373).
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    (Original post by Khaldoonson)
    Good day to all, I am definitely willing to join the fun that students of philosophy are having. I am a phD candidate in the faculty of Education at the University of Toronto in Toronto Canada. I happened to be searching the issue of Muslim scientists and thinkers who formulated a full fledged concept of Evolution way before Darwin when I came across your dynamic interactive group and seeing that there is something I can add to your discussion I decided to join. I see some entertaining the idea that the Muslim scientists did not include the evolution of man. Here is a quotation from the book of Ibn Khaldun (14th century, 400 yrs before Darwin) "Al-Muqadimah" i.e. "the Introduction" (p. 75) where he wrote the following after linking minerals to planta to animal in a creative evolutionary chain:

    "the animal world then widens, its species become numerous, and, in a gradual process of creation , it finaly leads to man, who is able to think and reflect. The higher stage of man is reached from the world of monkeys.". And by the way this is not the work of one or two prominent thinkers and scientists of their time, it is also the conceptualizations of the following and more: Al-Biruni (973-1048), Ibn Mikawayh (932-1030), Tusi (1201-1274), Ibn Kathir (1301-1373).

    Very good find! If you could post some books or private messege me some of your finds, would be greatly appreciated! =)
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    (Original post by legendaro)
    Very good find! If you could post some books or private messege me some of your finds, would be greatly appreciated! =)
    Thanks Legendaro, sorry for the delay I was under the weather and could not keep up with a variety of things. It seems to me you are more informed about the subject
    than myself. I reviewed your introductory entry and it reveals that much. At the moment I dont have a list of books at hand from the tenth century and earlier being busy trying to organize my thesis committee but recently I came across a couple of books by Egyptian professors of Biology and Comparative Linguistics presenting the story of the creation of humanity in the Quran from an Evolutionary perspective. If those titles are of interest to you I can pass the information. By the way those books
    are in Arabic and publication year : 1990s.
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    (Original post by Aj12)
    Seems pretty advanced given the time, always thought Islam was quite heavily against evolution though
    Yeah at the time there was a strong distinction between the Islamic rationalists specifically those described philosophers and a faction strongly against such beliefs, the anti-rationalism faction gained the support of the majority and are what current Islam abides, how sad of course for these wonderful philosophers that they didn't get the recognition they deserve due to those anti-rationalist effectively eliminating all rationalism from Islamic culture.
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    Verses from the Quran that might indicate evolution:

    [071:013] "What is the matter with you, that ye place not your hope for dignity in God?
    [071:014] Seeing that it is He that has created you(=plural form) in diverse stages?
    [071:017] And God has produced you(=plural form) from the earth growing gradually/like plants."

    [021:030] "Do not the unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of creation), before we clove them asunder? We made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?"

    [015:026] "We created man from sounding clay, from mud moulded into shape."

    [007:011] "And We created you (=plural form), then fashioned you(=plural form), then told the angels: Fall ye prostrate before Adam! And they fell prostrate, all save Iblis, who was not of those who make prostration."

    If humans were created spontenously/out of nothing in the already desired way, what was the need for God to shape them afterwards? Because it says that first there was creation and then a (gradual) fashioning of that creation and then came the advent of Adam who was the first khalilfa (=vicegerent/representitive of God on earth as opposed to calling him the first human) on earth. It gets even more interesting with the following verse before the event of Adam being a representative on earth:

    [002:030] "And when thy Lord said unto the angels: Lo! I am about to place a viceroy in the earth. They said: Wilt thou place therein one who will do harm therein and will shed blood, while we, we hymn Thy praise and sanctify Thee? He said: Surely I know that which ye know not."

    How could the angels have asked this and thus have known what humans could do (=shedding blood and causing harm) if they hadn't already witnessed humans/human forms doing these things? Angels are not believed to have knowlegde of the future.

    I have the tendancy to think that the Quran says that evolution was intended by God. Very interesting nevertheless.
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    (Original post by legendaro)
    Sorry couldnt find a Science area so ill just put this here, this is an intresting thing to look at for people curious about the Evolution of Evolution.

    The Muslim scientists ibn Kathir, ibn Khauldun, ibn Arabi, ibn Sina, among other scientists, such as the Ikhwan school of thought, arrived at the same conclusions as Darwin with a convincing amount of evidence. Some westerners, including Darwin’s contemporary, Sir William Draper, called it the Mohammedan Theory of Evolution.

    The Mu’tazili scientist and philosopher al-Jahiz (c. 776-869) was the first of the Muslim biologists and philosophers to develop an early theory of evolution. He speculated on the influence of the environment on animals, considered the effects of the environment on the likelihood of an animal to survive, and first described the struggle for existence and an early theory on natural selection. Al-Jahiz wrote the following on the struggle for existence:

    “Animals engage in a struggle for existence; for resources, to avoid being eaten and to breed. Environmental factors influence organisms to develop new characteristics to ensure survival, thus transforming into new species. Animals that survive to breed can pass on their successful characteristics to offspring.”

    There are clearly things which are simply argument by analogy. For instance: coral has branches like a tree; the date palm “does not wither if all its branches are chopped but it dies when the head is cut off” — so it’s like an animal. And through such analogy they link minerals to plants to animals.

    In fact, Hamidullah’s summary reads something like a Great Chain of Being — which was associated with commoners earlier — while al-Jahiz’s description reminds of natural selection.
    islam and evolution dont mix FACT
    check out the idiot priests views by typing evolution and islam
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    It is documented history that several Muslim researchers and scientists saw creation through gradual evolution prior to Darwin, however, such finds were not of their own merit…the Qur'an was the initial trigger for such thought. There are many verses in the Qur'an that strongly suggest and direct the human mind towards such a way of creation…..i. e., gradual, evolving in stages, from clay, from dirt, from fermenting blackish mud, from water… man growing from earth like a plant…all the previous including the verses that speak of fossils and ancient life on Earth in the Qur'an they are clear indicators to the creation of humans and everything else through the gradual and remarkable process of evolution. Why would the Qur'an order humans to investigate how life began on Earth if such investigation does not concern something fundamental in their own creation too???Investigating the beginning of creation is a direct commandment in the Qur'an, Allah says:“Do they not see how Allah originates creation then repeats it, truly that is easy for Allah. Say (tell them o prophet) walk through the earth and see how the creation was began and so will Allah produce a final creation, verily Allah has power over all things.” (Qur’an 29:19-20)This is cutting clear through the cheese! Search the Earth to see how creation began, to know how the creation was began we must look for the only clues that would shed light on the answer, fossils!!! A clear commandment to paleontology, a study that will ultimately reveal the complexity of life and the beauty of creation. The creation of humans began from mud ((طين:He (Allah) who properly fashioned everything He created, and He BEGAN the creation of humans from mud" (Qur'an32:7)."What is with you placing not your hope for kindness and long suffering in Allah, seeing that it is He that has created you in DIVERSE STAGES, do you not see how Allah has created the seven heavens on above the other and made the moon a light therein and the sun as a lamp, and Allah has PRODUCED YOU FROM THE EARTH GROWING GRADUALLY, and in the end He will return you into it and raise you forth.." (Qur'an 71:14-18)Some verses in the Qur'an indicate humans were at one point of time not upright then adjusted to be upright in posture…"O human, what has seduced you from your Lord most Beneficent? Him who has created you, fashioned you in due proportions and made you upright (فعدلك), in whatever form He wills does He put you together" (Qur'an 82:6-8)The Arabic word used in the previous verses translated as "made you upright" is "فعدلك" which literally means" made you upright, straightened you up" thus suggesting an evolutionary enhancement to a prior posture pre-humans assumed. There are many more verses that clearly indicate creation through evolution, in some verses Allah threatens humans to change their creation and replace them by other creation in the same process as they were raised from the posterity of other previous people (Qur'an 6: 133).They Lord is self sufficient, full of mercy, if it were His will, He could cause you to go away "يذهبكم" and in "you place appoint WHAT ما" He wills as your successors, even as He raised you up from the posterity of other people.There are two key words in this verse, GO AWAY and WHAT. Unfortunately, all erroneously translated, at least in Yousef Ali's translation and appear as WHO instead of WHAT and DESTROY instead of GO AWAY. The verse clearly suggest the ability of the Creator to drive humans to extinction and their replacement by different (WHAT) forms of life that will inherit the Earth in the place of humans.The list is long, there are many more verses in the Qur'an that could be interpreted as leading no where but to evolution. These same verse influenced early Muslim scholars into such thought, creation through evolution. One may ask, what about Adam and Eve, where do they fit in the picture?? Adam and Eve were part of God's creation, chosen from among the species of pre-humans on Earth, they were differentiated from other animals and raised up to a higher level in order to inherit the Earth which was the Creator's plan from the first moment. There are verses in the Qur'an that indicate the Creator offered the trust to the Heavens and the Earth, both refused the trust and humans accepted it."We indeed offered the trust to the heavens and the Earth and the mountains but they refused to undertake it being afraid thereof, but man undertook it, he was indeed unjust and foolish" (Qur'an 33:72)He who is capable of enabling the heavens and the Earth to understand, speak, accept or refuse, is capable of enabling monkey-like humans to speak, understanding and thus made more intelligent…there are verses in the Qur'an that speak of the angels wondering why God would give the trust to " the ones that kill and shed blood (Quran 2:30). The response of the angels is probably due to what they observed on Earth, pre-humans were no more than savages that killed and shed blood just like all other animals, and that is what the angels must have thought. The Creator answered them by saying that He knows that which they do not know and then breath His Spirit into Adam and evidently taught him many things as the Qur'an indicates; thus elevating him (man, humans) above all other even the angels themselves then made to inherit the Earth, to make it a better place and the test begins.
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    Zhuangzi also proposed a theory of natural evolution, along with a philosophy and religion that supported it, and so did Titus Lucretius Carus before any Islamic theory came up.

    It seems like you're trying to put up an Islamic 'first' on the theory of evolution which is very misleading and very wrong.
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    Muslims were the first to consider evolution in a meaningful manner in addition to the emergence of new species and genera from pre-existing ones. Both humans and "other" apes, though very different species, share a common ancestor thus suggesting a branching tree of life!! These are fundamental aspects of paleontology, Muslims many hundreds of years ago realized and accepted. Lucretius did not believe the emergence of new species from previous ones, so he is out of the list. I would not try to involve Buddhism in any meaningful scientific-religious context!!! Zuhangi's theory of evolution is a philosophy concerned with the evolution of one's self awareness and knowledge in an avenue of nonfinite avenue of knowledge. Many ancient literature imagined strange pre-existing creatures that has nothing to do with reality and are no more than fables and myths. They even tried to analyze life forms and creation, established ladders of life where they organized all forms into progressing categories. A great portion was meaningless, which is understandable, and much can be easily reduced into fables, myths, and fruitless philosophical attempts when reading ancient texts.
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    (Original post by Sierraman)
    Muslims were the first to consider evolution in a meaningful manner in addition to the emergence of new species and genera from pre-existing ones.


    Nonesense, it goes right back to the greeks (as usual)

    (Original post by Sierraman)
    Both humans and apes, though very different species, share a common ancestor thus suggesting a branching tree of life!!
    Humans are apes.
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    Glad this thread got resurrected - had no idea about this, nor of Anaximander. Very interesting.
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    I check this out,yeah it exists,how weird?!
    All this talk philosophies and theories discretionary
    In its entirety be unfounded
    The correct is : [O people, if you are in doubt of the expedition. then we have created you from dust, then from a sperm and then leech then chew synthetic andnon-synthetic to show you and acknowledge in the wombs what we want toindefinitely then نخرجكم children then to tell the Oshidkm and of you dies and you who ...
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    (Original post by Oumaima1)
    I doubt this ,from which book of Ibn Khaldun you took that from ?
    I consider this very serious (even dangerous),i'll check this out ,and his book in arabic..I'm very surprised..
    Why are you surprised ancient Muslim scholars and scientists clearly saw evolution as a method of creation if even the Qur'an itself speaks clearly of evolution?????? The pre-Muslim scholars were far more opened minded than many recent overly strict and seriously closed minded scholars.

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