Plato's analogy of the cave

i have to discuss the validility of teh points being made in Plato's analogy of the cave so far i think i need to discuss
true knowledge is not in the material world-discuss aristotle
ideas about the forms
ideas about the soul

is this right? any ideas how i can expand on this

thanks alot

Reply 1

fr browne

Make sure you higlight the point about Plato being a dualist, two worlds represented by the Cave and the "Real" World. Also highlight his point made elsewhere that only philosophers who can question what they see in front of them can reach enlightenment. Ordinary or uneducated people cannot achieve this, reflected in the analogy by the fact only one prisoner questioned the reality.

Reply 2

Calvin

Why, once philosophers have reached true happiness and enlightenment in the real world, do they descend back into the cave where people make fun of them?

Reply 3

fr browne

To tell people about the real world as they are their kinsmen. If you hit upon a wonder drug that could cure cancer, would you not feel the urge to tell everyone about it?

Reply 4

Laus

Ah plato and his forms... I had to answer a question on him in my AS exam (paper 1). Twas quite straight forward. Let me know what you want to know specifically and i will see what i can do :smile:

I think it was rather nice of the slave to go back and tell his fellow friends... he could have been a little more discret though :rolleyes:

Reply 5

Calvin

fr browne

To tell people about the real world as they are their kinsmen. If you hit upon a wonder drug that could cure cancer, would you not feel the urge to tell everyone about it?

But Plato is saying justice is harmony of the soul. You are a just person when reason, spirit and desires all work together for the same thing.
Going back into the cave won't allow the philosopher ruler to teach everybody to be a philosopher, each person has their own specialisations which they have to stick to. So going back in doesn't allow the Philosopher to bring others out, just to rule them justly.
A philosopher who has ascended from the cave has achieved ultimate happiness and has no concern for worldly affairs. So they want to do philosophy, not rule. So why is it just for them to go back into the cave rather than to stay outside and do what they really want to do, isn't that unharmonious?

So isn't going back into the cave actually an unjust action?

Reply 6

Daragh

But that is the point of the person being returned being killed. Plato is saying that in returning to the cave the man was in effect wasting his time on those still chained down by their desires.

Reply 7

Calvin

Well, yeah but the cave is representing the state as it is now, not the perfect state as it will be.
In the ideal state people will respect philosophers, not make fun of them. So I'm not sure the people laughing at the philosopher who's come back into the cave from outside, it the same situation a philosopher ruler would be in. The philosopher in the cave is a fool for going back because it's pointless, they won't listen. The philosopher in the state is a fool for being a ruler rather than sticking with philosophy because although there is a purpose to him ruling (because he'd be good at it and the people will do what he says), according to Plato he shouldn't care about them because worldy things don't concern him. Yet clearly Plato also expects him to go rule instead of doing philosophy. Why does Plato expect this if he thinks the philosopher won't care about the state?