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Will the Norway attacks be known as terrorism?

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    So I'm checking this mornings articles and headlines.

    BBC: Scores killed in Norway attacks

    No reference to terrorism in main article. One in the analysis.

    CNN: 91 Dead in Norway Attacks

    No reference to the attacks as terrorism

    Fox: 'Madman' Eyed in Norway Massacre

    1 reference to it as terrorism, but reassures it has nothing to do with 'international terrorism' twice

    Yahoo: Norway Gunman Yelled 'You Must All Die'

    No reference to terrorism

    New York Times: 91 Dead in Norway, Most at Youth Camp

    1 reference to it as terrorism

    Al Jazeera: Scores killed in twin attacks in Norway

    No reference to terrorism

    I recall that this was presented as a terrorist attack widely throughout the media (and the printed press illustrates this) before his identify was known. That's not to say they don't disagree that this was an act of terrorism, but having seen how effective public perceptions are it'll be interesting to see how this is termed in the next few days and weeks; will it be known as terrorism or simply the acts of a 'mad man' on a killing spree?


    What perplexes me further is when Islamic terrorism occurs in the Western hemisphere, or specifically countries are not Muslim or involved in conflict, it evokes the same conversations which are invariably almost always about the presumed link of a religion with the act of blowing innocent people on the street and yet when the same act occurs in Muslim countries 1000 times more, and takes thousands of more lives in places like Afghanistan, Iraq or Pakistan - it's not noticed. It's not relevant, it' doesn't matter even when its the same type of people doing it. We saw it in the India terrorism thread where people talked about India's problems with terrorism, and because it was usually Pakistanis or Muslim indians the perpeturators, it invariably stoked up the same conversation we tend to have. But yet not a single person mentioned Pakistan's problem with terrorism and how its been worst in recent years. It's being presented, or taken as, that terrorism only happens in non-Muslim countries and thus perpetuates this narrative of a link between Muslims, or Islam, and the notion of blowing people up.

    To test this, I created a thread on some forums when a terrorist attack happened. But when it happened elsewhere. 'BREAKING NEWS: Terrorist attack kills 127 in city centre', I titled the thread - although accurate, I knew people would assume it to mean a city close to them (or a European or US city'.

    What do you think was the reaction when they finished reading the article and realised it was in Baghdad or Kabul? It was 'Meh'. Whilst it's going to trigger any empathy because we may not be able to identify with Afghans or Iraqis like Europeans or Americans, but importantly It didn't evoke none of the 'Islamic terrorism' narrative that it would have done if even a 10th of people that died in that attack had died in Europe or the US, for example. So it suggested that we don't identify this type of terrorism as terrorism at all, even if it actually is and even if it kills more people.

    So in effect, hundreds and thousands can die in one area and be killed by the same people but when the same happens - even when its small casualties - in another area, by the same people, it's relevant and its judged as a separate entity completely. If it wasn't, it would sink this narrative that this is a conflict of religious ideology. If group X, who are Muslim, indiscriminately kill Muslims in a Muslim country, it's no more than a rolling banner on your TV screen. But when group X kills indiscriminately others in Europe, for example, it's an agenda that can define elections and attitudes of immigrant communities; it's those Muslims again. It's Islam again.

    Anyone here can quote the figure of those killed on 9/11 and 7/7 and that's largely enough to define this entire thing. But not a single person can quote the figure of those killed in even just one year in the Muslim countries these terrorists inflict their greatest focus and their damage on, and yet we'll all claim we know a lil sum'in about this. Why is that.

    Although we may not be able to empathise with other people, we're always vocal in our opinions of what motives terrorism. Usually that opinion is religious ideology because we only see Muslim terrorists, making videos citing Quranic verses, attacking Western cities. But we are apparently uninterested in the majority of terrorist attacks in other countries when its evidently not religious ideology, so it leads to a failure of acknowledgement that there are multiple reasons/factors as to what can cause terrorism in general.

    Here in this case with the Norway attacks, the man was evidently politically motivated and sought out to murder countless people - even the young, associated with a political party. He was anti-immigration, anti-Muslim and a far-right with supposed admiration for the infamous Geert Wilder - a man who was banned from the UK because of potential to incite hatred. Some here on this forum cried foul because he wasn't able to have his freedom of speech rights, and some saw it as a PC decision to stop him talking about Islam. And yet, when Arab clerics are banned from the UK for inciting hatred, its supported. Why? Because they could inspire terrorists. Here we have a far-right individual subscribing to right-wing rhetoric, is inspired by people like Wilders - but will people see a similarity here? No. If he was named Ahmed, and he said he admired a fundamentalist cleric, then they'd be furious.
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    seems to me that it's only called "terrorism" when muslims do it...
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    I wondered this too...very strange.
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    It is terrorism.

    A definition of it can be "the state of fear and submission produced by terrorism or terrorization". Anybody going to suggest the people of Norway are not scared right now?


    So the media aren't, for the moment, calling it that. Does it matter?
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    tl,dr

    Terrorism is a pointless word anyway, very blurred boundaries. As the old saying goes, one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.
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    (Original post by Jyrez)
    seems to me that it's only called "terrorism" when muslims do it...
    Yeah, none of the IRA's attacks were ever called terrorism. :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by Drewski)
    It is terrorism.

    A definition of it can be "the state of fear and submission produced by terrorism or terrorization". Anybody going to suggest the people of Norway are not scared right now?


    So the media aren't, for the moment, calling it that. Does it matter?
    So if I release a scary horror movie

    TERRORIST!!11
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    He's been charged with two acts of terrorism. So, yeah?
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    This is what all my muslim friends are thinking as well.
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    (Original post by MarcusTheEskimo)
    tl,dr

    Terrorism is a pointless word anyway, very blurred boundaries. As the old saying goes, one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.
    This idiot clearly had no interest in other people's freedom.
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    (Original post by A Mysterious Lord)
    This idiot clearly had no interest in other people's freedom.
    Freedom fighter, I don't think it literally means "fighting for freedom", I guess it just means a broad term for someone who fights for a cause that you believe in
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    (Original post by Drewski)
    It is terrorism.

    A definition of it can be "the state of fear and submission produced by terrorism or terrorization". Anybody going to suggest the people of Norway are not scared right now?


    So the media aren't, for the moment, calling it that. Does it matter?
    So when state media (e.g, BBC) turns out scaremongering propaganda to keep the populace in a constant state of terror, is that, too, terrorism?
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    there is no mention of the word 'terror' on this page
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    (Original post by Meus)
    So I'm checking this mornings articles and headlines.

    BBC: Scores killed in Norway attacks

    No reference to terrorism in main article. One in the analysis.

    CNN: 91 Dead in Norway Attacks

    No reference to the attacks as terrorism

    Fox: 'Madman' Eyed in Norway Massacre

    1 reference to it as terrorism, but reassures it has nothing to do with 'international terrorism' twice

    Yahoo: Norway Gunman Yelled 'You Must All Die'

    No reference to terrorism

    New York Times: 91 Dead in Norway, Most at Youth Camp

    1 reference to it as terrorism

    Al Jazeera: Scores killed in twin attacks in Norway

    No reference to terrorism

    I recall that this was presented as a terrorist attack widely throughout the media (and the printed press illustrates this) before his identify was known. That's not to say they don't disagree that this was an act of terrorism, but having seen how effective public perceptions are it'll be interesting to see how this is termed in the next few days and weeks; will it be known as terrorism or simply the acts of a 'mad man' on a killing spree?


    What perplexes me further is when Islamic terrorism occurs in the Western hemisphere, or specifically countries are not Muslim or involved in conflict, it evokes the same conversations which are invariably almost always about the presumed link of a religion with the act of blowing innocent people on the street and yet when the same act occurs in Muslim countries 1000 times more, and takes thousands of more lives in places like Afghanistan, Iraq or Pakistan - it's not noticed. It's not relevant, it' doesn't matter even when its the same type of people doing it. We saw it in the India terrorism thread where people talked about India's problems with terrorism, and because it was usually Pakistanis or Muslim indians the perpeturators, it invariably stoked up the same conversation we tend to have. But yet not a single person mentioned Pakistan's problem with terrorism and how its been worst in recent years. It's being presented, or taken as, that terrorism only happens in non-Muslim countries and thus perpetuates this narrative of a link between Muslims, or Islam, and the notion of blowing people up.

    To test this, I created a thread on some forums when a terrorist attack happened. But when it happened elsewhere. 'BREAKING NEWS: Terrorist attack kills 127 in city centre', I titled the thread - although accurate, I knew people would assume it to mean a city close to them (or a European or US city'.

    What do you think was the reaction when they finished reading the article and realised it was in Baghdad or Kabul? It was 'Meh'. Whilst it's going to trigger any empathy because we may not be able to identify with Afghans or Iraqis like Europeans or Americans, but importantly It didn't evoke none of the 'Islamic terrorism' narrative that it would have done if even a 10th of people that died in that attack had died in Europe or the US, for example. So it suggested that we don't identify this type of terrorism as terrorism at all, even if it actually is and even if it kills more people.

    So in effect, hundreds and thousands can die in one area and be killed by the same people but when the same happens - even when its small casualties - in another area, by the same people, it's relevant and its judged as a separate entity completely. If it wasn't, it would sink this narrative that this is a conflict of religious ideology. If group X, who are Muslim, indiscriminately kill Muslims in a Muslim country, it's no more than a rolling banner on your TV screen. But when group X kills indiscriminately others in Europe, for example, it's an agenda that can define elections and attitudes of immigrant communities; it's those Muslims again. It's Islam again.

    Anyone here can quote the figure of those killed on 9/11 and 7/7 and that's largely enough to define this entire thing. But not a single person can quote the figure of those killed in even just one year in the Muslim countries these terrorists inflict their greatest focus and their damage on, and yet we'll all claim we know a lil sum'in about this. Why is that.

    Although we may not be able to empathise with other people, we're always vocal in our opinions of what motives terrorism. Usually that opinion is religious ideology because we only see Muslim terrorists, making videos citing Quranic verses, attacking Western cities. But we are apparently uninterested in the majority of terrorist attacks in other countries when its evidently not religious ideology, so it leads to a failure of acknowledgement that there are multiple reasons/factors as to what can cause terrorism in general.

    Here in this case with the Norway attacks, the man was evidently politically motivated and sought out to murder countless people - even the young, associated with a political party. He was anti-immigration, anti-Muslim and a far-right with supposed admiration for the infamous Geert Wilder - a man who was banned from the UK because of potential to incite hatred. Some here on this forum cried foul because he wasn't able to have his freedom of speech rights, and some saw it as a PC decision to stop him talking about Islam. And yet, when Arab clerics are banned from the UK for inciting hatred, its supported. Why? Because they could inspire terrorists. Here we have a far-right individual subscribing to right-wing rhetoric, is inspired by people like Wilders - but will people see a similarity here? No. If he was named Ahmed, and he said he admired a fundamentalist cleric, then they'd be furious.
    Haven't you heard? White people can't be terrorists, only the Mooslems with their muslamic ray guns. Tru fax yo.
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    (Original post by Rant)
    So when state media (e.g, BBC) turns out scaremongering propaganda to keep the populace in a constant state of terror, is that, too, terrorism?
    If that's what they're doing, then in the purest sense of the word: yes.

    I'm sure we can all agree, though, that there are different degrees of it.
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    (Original post by Drewski)
    If that's what they're doing, then in the purest sense of the word: yes.

    I'm sure we can all agree, though, that there are different degrees of it.
    Degrees of it? Maybe we should have a Terrorist-Off. Start with Al-Qaeda vs. the IRA.
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    (Original post by Rant)
    Degrees of it? Maybe we should have a Terrorist-Off. Start with Al-Qaeda vs. the IRA.
    I meant more in the sense of the American laws where you could have Murder 1, etc.

    Inciting terror and generating fear is bad, actually killing people is a bit worse - at least in my book.
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    (Original post by Drewski)
    I meant more in the sense of the American laws where you could have Murder 1, etc.

    Inciting terror and generating fear is bad, actually killing people is a bit worse - at least in my book.
    Yeah, a government would never stoop that low...
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    (Original post by Jyrez)
    seems to me that it's only called "terrorism" when muslims do it...
    This really.
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    it's called domestic terrorism

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