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    (Original post by kayjay)
    I think not. I am a pathan, or pashtun or whatever you want to use but i generally use pathan as do most pathans i know, and i do not find it derogatory.

    I do not speak pashto at all - but my dad does ( though is in the minority in my wider family)
    maybe that is why i don't find pathan derogatory, but then again he ( my dad) use pathan over pashtun and was annoyed at the renaming of NWFP to KP because it doesn't consider those not speaking pashto

    Are you saying that if you don't speak pashto you are not pathan? I speak English, with Hindko as my mother tongue but I am still pathan.

    On a lighter note, hi to everyone here.
    Out of interest are there any other Hindko speakers here
    and where in Pakistan ( I don't know much about Afghanistan) is everyone from?
    I don't mean to offend you but the word 'pathan' was originally considered derogatory hence you will find numerous objections to it by pashtuns. Many of my Pakistanis have told me 'Pathan' is used by them in order to indicate someone of pashtun lineage but has mixed/adopted a Pakistani culture. Like countless others who have mixed with Pakistani people and adopted more so of their culture thus become removed from the whole culture of 'pashtuns' adopting Hindko as their mother tongue, I personally think maybe your case resonates as being at a very late stage of that transition.

    For pashtuns, pashto ( and yes I admit along with 'some' Dari influences since the history of Iran and Afghanistan is so interlinked) has always and will always be a mother tongue. Hindko has never been a pashtun mother tongue.

    My father goes crazy trying to make sure we learn to speak pashto to a good standard and not lose the language. He's even implemented a pashto only rule, at home. I can imagine his reaction if I was to tell him that I wished to speak hindko as a replacement to pashto, it wouldn't be pretty, it'd be a quick Google search to the most pashtunified place he can find and an ASAP ticket to there for me.

    Pashtuns are very passionate about pashtu and I don't believe you can as a pashtun replace that mother tongue.
    I mean I've heard people speaking hindko and it bears little resemblence to pashtu with dari speaking pashtuns who've had farsi in their family for years upon end, when they speak it does often turn my head as I can understand a sentence or two and the whole tone is generally very similar sounding to pashtu, in the way they express the words and such.

    Don't get me wrong, my mixed race cousins speak as much pashtu as I speak Japenese, but they know that for their pashtun side, Norwegian is not a substitute for their mother tonuge (in regards to their pashtun sides)


    I don't know much about the whole hindko thing but researching it further, briefly now I came across this 'Hindkowans who are sometimes referred to as Punjabi Pathans.' which I dunno, maybe you feel due to the loss of language and such forth you fall into that umbrella.

    What I am saying is that for me being a pashtun and a pathan are two different things.

    ( Oh and in answer to your question, I would include someone with a great great grandfather who was pashtun, as being pashtun/ part pashtun if they wanted to be. Your question should be directed to those pashtuns who are very nationalistic or embody every part of pashtun culture whom often like to set the standard for consideration. I mean it was remarked by one charming freshie that my western dress and father's being born here that I wasn't a very good pashtun and he couldn't believe I was a full one blah blah....with them you may encounter problems, namely arrogance ¬_¬ )
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    (Original post by kayjay)
    I think not. I am a pathan, or pashtun or whatever you want to use but i generally use pathan as do most pathans i know, and i do not find it derogatory.

    I do not speak pashto at all - but my dad does ( though is in the minority in my wider family)
    maybe that is why i don't find pathan derogatory, but then again he ( my dad) use pathan over pashtun and was annoyed at the renaming of NWFP to KP because it doesn't consider those not speaking pashto

    Are you saying that if you don't speak pashto you are not pathan? I speak English, with Hindko as my mother tongue but I am still pathan.

    On a lighter note, hi to everyone here.
    Out of interest are there any other Hindko speakers here
    and where in Pakistan ( I don't know much about Afghanistan) is everyone from?
    pathan is a derogatry term to call pashtuns pashtun. i am from kandahar myself and have been brought up in full pashtun culture. its a must that every pashtun be able to speak pashto couse thats what partly makes them pashtun. i wont lie i am 1 of those pashtuns who is against this farci/dari and punjabi influences of our people and culture. many pashtuns in pakistan have lost thier identity these days and as much as i have tried to remind them of thier roots etc they turn a blind eye so its come to a point where i am just letting it go and accepting that they are pashtuns no more, end of the day the true pashtuns will survive and live on loving thier culture and celbrating thier history and customs.
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    (Original post by *Funky-buddha*)
    I don't mean to offend you but the word 'pathan' was originally considered derogatory hence you will find numerous objections to it by pashtuns. Many of my Pakistanis have told me 'Pathan' is used by them in order to indicate someone of pashtun lineage but has mixed/adopted a Pakistani culture. Like countless others who have mixed with Pakistani people and adopted more so of their culture thus become removed from the whole culture of 'pashtuns' adopting Hindko as their mother tongue, I personally think maybe your case resonates as being at a very late stage of that transition.

    For pashtuns, pashto ( and yes I admit along with 'some' Dari influences since the history of Iran and Afghanistan is so interlinked) has always and will always be a mother tongue. Hindko has never been a pashtun mother tongue.

    My father goes crazy trying to make sure we learn to speak pashto to a good standard and not lose the language. He's even implemented a pashto only rule, at home. I can imagine his reaction if I was to tell him that I wished to speak hindko as a replacement to pashto, it wouldn't be pretty, it'd be a quick Google search to the most pashtunified place he can find and an ASAP ticket to there for me.

    Pashtuns are very passionate about pashtu and I don't believe you can as a pashtun replace that mother tongue.
    I mean I've heard people speaking hindko and it bears little resemblence to pashtu with dari speaking pashtuns who've had farsi in their family for years upon end, when they speak it does often turn my head as I can understand a sentence or two and the whole tone is generally very similar sounding to pashtu, in the way they express the words and such.

    Don't get me wrong, my mixed race cousins speak as much pashtu as I speak Japenese, but they know that for their pashtun side, Norwegian is not a substitute for their mother tonuge (in regards to their pashtun sides)


    I don't know much about the whole hindko thing but researching it further, briefly now I came across this 'Hindkowans who are sometimes referred to as Punjabi Pathans.' which I dunno, maybe you feel due to the loss of language and such forth you fall into that umbrella.

    What I am saying is that for me being a pashtun and a pathan are two different things.

    ( Oh and in answer to your question, I would include someone with a great great grandfather who was pashtun, as being pashtun/ part pashtun if they wanted to be. Your question should be directed to those pashtuns who are very nationalistic or embody every part of pashtun culture whom often like to set the standard for consideration. I mean it was remarked by one charming freshie that my western dress and father's being born here that I wasn't a very good pashtun and he couldn't believe I was a full one blah blah....with them you may encounter problems, namely arrogance ¬_¬ )
    While language is important, I find it hard to undertand how you can say because one does not speak the language he is not a true pathan/pashtun.

    Simply said my ancestors at some point found that hindko was the language used in the region that they settled. Just as i now speak English because i live in English, and even my hindko is of a poor level ( my dad also tries to say let's just speak hindko in the house, but it never sticks for more than an hour max ) so if future generations have english as their first language like me are they no longer pakistani, hindkowans, pathans or whatever? And if my dad can speak pashto does that make him a 'real' pashtun but me not just because i can't?

    I don't accept the phrase punjabi pathan - seeing as my family do not live in the Punjab, i don't have any punjabi blood ( well not in the recent past that i know o, can't say for definite because don't know that far back in history and women don't appear in family trees)

    wrt to speaking pashto - i would love to be able to speak pashto. There is nothing more annoying then when somebody speaks to you randomly in pashto and you have to say that you can't speak it ( which is difficult when you don't know whether they can speak English)

    I guess to summarise:

    I don't believe that just because your main language changes you lose all your ethnicity, because based on that assumption all of those pathans/pakistanis/indians/chinese etc who now can pretty much only speak English are no longer pathan/pakistani etc.

    For me the number one most important part to being pathan is lineage and blood. Then culture and language. If somebody learns pashto and adheres to 'pashtun culture' does that make them pathan - i think not.
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    (Original post by sahil112)
    pathan is a derogatry term to call pashtuns pashtun. i am from kandahar myself and have been brought up in full pashtun culture. its a must that every pashtun be able to speak pashto couse thats what partly makes them pashtun. i wont lie i am 1 of those pashtuns who is against this farci/dari and punjabi influences of our people and culture. many pashtuns in pakistan have lost thier identity these days and as much as i have tried to remind them of thier roots etc they turn a blind eye so its come to a point where i am just letting it go and accepting that they are pashtuns no more, end of the day the true pashtuns will survive and live on loving thier culture and celbrating thier history and customs.
    You say it is a must - but then admit it is only partly what makes them pashtun

    By influences what do you mean - eating the food, wearing the clothes, listening to music etc? Because if so then when people come to the UK i would argue that they are influenced by the culture here. Do you belive all pathans must live in Afghanistan and KP ?

    Who are you to say that they are not pathan. If they have the heritage and the blood then they are pathan.

    Again what on earth is ' true pathan' - i believe that it is based on lineage not on how you live your life.

    What must one do to be a 'true pathan' for you
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    (Original post by kayjay)
    While language is important, I find it hard to undertand how you can say because one does not speak the language he is not a true pathan/pashtun.

    Simply said my ancestors at some point found that hindko was the language used in the region that they settled. Just as i now speak English because i live in English, and even my hindko is of a poor level ( my dad also tries to say let's just speak hindko in the house, but it never sticks for more than an hour max ) so if future generations have english as their first language like me are they no longer pakistani, hindkowans, pathans or whatever? And if my dad can speak pashto does that make him a 'real' pashtun but me not just because i can't?

    I don't accept the phrase punjabi pathan - seeing as my family do not live in the Punjab, i don't have any punjabi blood ( well not in the recent past that i know o, can't say for definite because don't know that far back in history and women don't appear in family trees)

    wrt to speaking pashto - i would love to be able to speak pashto. There is nothing more annoying then when somebody speaks to you randomly in pashto and you have to say that you can't speak it ( which is difficult when you don't know whether they can speak English)

    I guess to summarise:

    I don't believe that just because your main language changes you lose all your ethnicity, because based on that assumption all of those pathans/pakistanis/indians/chinese etc who now can pretty much only speak English are no longer pathan/pakistani etc.

    For me the number one most important part to being pathan is lineage and blood. Then culture and language. If somebody learns pashto and adheres to 'pashtun culture' does that make them pathan - i think not.
    My point here isn't about not speaking pashto as I have cousins who can't speak pashto, but my point is by saying 'hindko' is your 'mother tongue'...as I talked of before, hindko has never had any association with pashtuns in our history. So by saying hindko is your mother tongue your replacing it and ignoring what is actually a pashtun's mother tongue that has thousands of years of history and relevance to us.

    I live in England, my cousins in Norway etc we all speak our regional languages, but we still speak pashto. It would be stupid for anyone to have an issue with that but you jumped from 'mother tongue' to 'regional'.....and now you say your father tries to enforce hindko within your house, which again isn't a pashtun language or a language most pashtuns understand or actively try to learn. It's not pashto and by using it as a replacement for pashto you can see why it's a bit....well no. For me it's the fact you called hindko a mother tongue, for pashtuns it's not.
    I mean for my cousins who speak Norsk and are full Afghan, they may not be able to speak pashto but they don't try and portray it as a replacement for their pashtun side.

    For many pashtuns here in Birmingham if you told them you were a hindko speaking pashtun you'd get a :confused: look and asked if you were a chachi....
    Being pashtun and retaining some form of culture or even just pride about being pashtun is very important and looking at some of these 'pashtun/pakthun' groups on Facebook, the emphasis on pashto is very prevalent and replacement as a 'mother tongue' is something that you'd find much resistance to.

    It brings them close to being a 'pashtun' though especially in an honorary sense. Pashtun arrogance means when people emulate pashtun culture it's a source of pride for many pashtun men.

    As said before I consider a pashtun and a pathan to be different things, especially when my Pakistani friends do use the two terms in different contexts, pathan being for those who now share a greater proportion of Pakistani culture and hence an aspect of why many pashtuns find that word derogatory.

    I'm pashtun and my family call themselves pashtun. I find other variations quite cute to just not something that doesn't describe me or my culture.
    I'm a pashtun, not a pathan and wouldn't call actively ever call myself that. It's not what I am.
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    (Original post by kayjay)
    I think not. I am a pathan, or pashtun or whatever you want to use but i generally use pathan as do most pathans i know, and i do not find it derogatory.

    I do not speak pashto at all - but my dad does ( though is in the minority in my wider family)
    maybe that is why i don't find pathan derogatory, but then again he ( my dad) use pathan over pashtun and was annoyed at the renaming of NWFP to KP because it doesn't consider those not speaking pashto

    Are you saying that if you don't speak pashto you are not pathan? I speak English, with Hindko as my mother tongue but I am still pathan.

    On a lighter note, hi to everyone here.
    Out of interest are there any other Hindko speakers here
    and where in Pakistan ( I don't know much about Afghanistan) is everyone from?
    lol this argument can go on forever. I'm proud to be a Pushto speaking Pashtoon but personally I feel that those who don't know of the term Pashtoon or Pakhtoon, we could use "Pathan" to make them understand and then we can point out the right terms and all. Recently, someone politely asked me whether I'm a Pathan or not and I had to say yes. I also think it's not fair for those non-Pushto speaking Pashtoons to be regarded as non-pashtoons, because they do have pure Pashtoon blood and upbringing. There could be various problems that could lead to the issue. But I do not think that Hindko has any connection with Pashtoons and if you grew up hearing Hindko, then it's another issue. That's about it from me:cool:
    So err... hi
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    (Original post by *Funky-buddha*)
    My point here isn't about not speaking pashto as I have cousins who can't speak pashto, but my point is by saying 'hindko' is your 'mother tongue'...as I talked of before, hindko has never had any association with pashtuns in our history. So by saying hindko is your mother tongue your replacing it and ignoring what is actually a pashtun's mother tongue that has thousands of years of history and relevance to us.

    I live in England, my cousins in Norway etc we all speak our regional languages, but we still speak pashto. It would be stupid for anyone to have an issue with that but you jumped from 'mother tongue' to 'regional'.....and now you say your father tries to enforce hindko within your house, which again isn't a pashtun language or a language most pashtuns understand or actively try to learn. It's not pashto and by using it as a replacement for pashto you can see why it's a bit....well no. For me it's the fact you called hindko a mother tongue, for pashtuns it's not.
    I mean for my cousins who speak Norsk and are full Afghan, they may not be able to speak pashto but they don't try and portray it as a replacement for their pashtun side.

    For many pashtuns here in Birmingham if you told them you were a hindko speaking pashtun you'd get a :confused: look and asked if you were a chachi....
    Being pashtun and retaining some form of culture or even just pride about being pashtun is very important and looking at some of these 'pashtun/pakthun' groups on Facebook, the emphasis on pashto is very prevalent and replacement as a 'mother tongue' is something that you'd find much resistance to.

    It brings them close to being a 'pashtun' though especially in an honorary sense. Pashtun arrogance means when people emulate pashtun culture it's a source of pride for many pashtun men.

    As said before I consider a pashtun and a pathan to be different things, especially when my Pakistani friends do use the two terms in different contexts, pathan being for those who now share a greater proportion of Pakistani culture and hence an aspect of why many pashtuns find that word derogatory.

    I'm pashtun and my family call themselves pashtun. I find other variations quite cute to just not something that doesn't describe me or my culture.
    I'm a pashtun, not a pathan and wouldn't call actively ever call myself that. It's not what I am.
    I say Hindko is my mother tongue because that is what my mother speaks, and that is what her mother speaks therefore it is my mother tongue. I am not trying to replace pashto but since most people in my family speak Hindko or Urdu obviosuly over time it has become the language of choice probably down to the fact that it proved more useful in the area in which my family settled. As i mentioned a lot of my family speak Urdu over Hindko now because they feel it is more useful to them in their everyday life.

    Thus i am not activcely seeking to get rid of pashto in fact the opposite i wish i could speak pashto so that i could respond to people when they talk to me, i also wish that my Hindko was better as well as my urdu, but since i was brought up in this country as a youngest child my strongest language by far is English and therefore as sad as it may be in the future there is the real possibility that future generations will have English as their 'mother tongue' not their ethnic historic language but the one that their parents spoke as a first language and used at home.

    I did not call hindko the mother tongue for pashtuns. But i am a pathan whose mother tongue is hindko I can't change this and you can't disagree with this fact. In the past yes of course pashto was the "original mothertongue" but for some reason as my ancestors settled they obviously decided that they were going to learn Hindko and eventually became their main language.

    My dad tries to enforce hindko because that is the language that i have the best grasp of and is still a language we consider to be ours since it is the main one spoken he also says we should know pashto but since he never taught us it he understands that it would be totally stupid to try to enforce a language that we can't speak or understand. I always blame him for not teaching me pashto but seeing as very few members of my family iin this country speak it i'm nto surprised i never learnt because as i said i still can't really speka hindko properly.

    I am not a chachi, and i probably do use pathan because phrases such as pashtun suggest that one must be able to speak pashto to be 'accepted'

    p.s don't actually mean to cause any animosity.
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    (Original post by Zoya Khan)
    lol this argument can go on forever. I'm proud to be a Pushto speaking Pashtoon but personally I feel that those who don't know of the term Pashtoon or Pakhtoon, we could use "Pathan" to make them understand and then we can point out the right terms and all. Recently, someone politely asked me whether I'm a Pathan or not and I had to say yes. I also think it's not fair for those non-Pushto speaking Pashtoons to be regarded as non-pashtoons, because they do have pure Pashtoon blood and upbringing. There could be various problems that could lead to the issue. But I do not think that Hindko has any connection with Pashtoons and if you grew up hearing Hindko, then it's another issue. That's about it from me:cool:
    So err... hi
    Fair enough, maybe I can highlight the fact that ( perhaps sadly) there are pathans who speak Hindko as their mother tongue.

    And hi whereabouts are you from originally ( assuming you now live in the UK).
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    Basically, my family background is from Herat but then my family migrated to Pakistan, Sawabi, way before I was born and spread and settled there, so officially, I'm a Pakistani and have got great links to the Pukhtoons living there
    I don't live in the UK, though my English may point out that:^_^:
    I live in the Middle East and it's an awesome, multicultural place to be in I'm not in Saudi Arabia but in Muscat, Oman, so the rules aren't extreme and I have freedom as a girl.
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    (Original post by kayjay)
    I say Hindko is my mother tongue because that is what my mother speaks, and that is what her mother speaks therefore it is my mother tongue. I am not trying to replace pashto but since most people in my family speak Hindko or Urdu obviosuly over time it has become the language of choice probably down to the fact that it proved more useful in the area in which my family settled. As i mentioned a lot of my family speak Urdu over Hindko now because they feel it is more useful to them in their everyday life.

    Thus i am not activcely seeking to get rid of pashto in fact the opposite i wish i could speak pashto so that i could respond to people when they talk to me, i also wish that my Hindko was better as well as my urdu, but since i was brought up in this country as a youngest child my strongest language by far is English and therefore as sad as it may be in the future there is the real possibility that future generations will have English as their 'mother tongue' not their ethnic historic language but the one that their parents spoke as a first language and used at home.

    I did not call hindko the mother tongue for pashtuns. But i am a pathan whose mother tongue is hindko I can't change this and you can't disagree with this fact. In the past yes of course pashto was the "original mothertongue" but for some reason as my ancestors settled they obviously decided that they were going to learn Hindko and eventually became their main language.

    My dad tries to enforce hindko because that is the language that i have the best grasp of and is still a language we consider to be ours since it is the main one spoken he also says we should know pashto but since he never taught us it he understands that it would be totally stupid to try to enforce a language that we can't speak or understand. I always blame him for not teaching me pashto but seeing as very few members of my family iin this country speak it i'm nto surprised i never learnt because as i said i still can't really speka hindko properly.

    I am not a chachi, and i probably do use pathan because phrases such as pashtun suggest that one must be able to speak pashto to be 'accepted'

    p.s don't actually mean to cause any animosity.
    Then that to me is something very weird indeed, that your grandmother also speaks hindko in place of pashto. It's an alien concept to me and one that I can't reconcile with willingly losing your original historic language in replacement of something else and by not retaining it or well trying to, it is a form of replacement. Maybe your mothers side have some form of 'Pakistani' blood in them as it is a pretty odd case?

    My strongest language is also English by far since my grandparents migrated to England, and the only reason I can understand ( well parts) of urdu is because we were sent to a mosque down the road, where you had to do a compulsory thirty minutes of urdu school ( which to be fair my mosque teacher often didn't enforce for the 'pashtuns') So again the concept of Urdu in place of pashto is again something I find it hard to reconcile with.
    I think it's a sore point for a few people, as I have friends from Kabul who are sometimes very harsh towards the 'Lahorie pashtuns' who now only speak Urdu.
    ( I don't agree with it at all mind you)

    If you go back the way you originally phrased it was calling hindko your mother tongue and hence you can see why my reply was so heavily tailored to the fact that if you're a pashtoon, your mother tongue, when using that word in the context it usually is used in, isn't hindko. Enforcing a language in a household to get better at it is one thing, but when that language is your main language whilst your child tells you they're a pashtun, it just seems a further step away from being a pashtun.

    Anyway, the reason I put the end part of your comment in bold, is because I know you're not and neither am I
    Looking back on my replies, I was somewhat curt to you. That is unfair on you and I do apologise, I think it's just that's a mixture of my tone and the fact that it seemed from the original few comments that you seemed to be saying 'well hindko can be a pashtuns original mother tongue and can replace pashto'
    Obviously you were not saying that as you've clarified and so I apologise for the curtness.
    I hope I didn't make you feel bad as I know if the roles were reversed and I desperately wanted to learn pashto and had pride in being pashtun and was having to constantly defend myself for only being able to speak hindko, I'd feel awful/discouraged/misplaced.
    My issue was just thinking that you'd replaced pashto with hindko and were justifying it as being a pashtun's mother tongue.
    A case of crossed wires and you weren't doing that at all.

    As for calling yourself 'pathan' I think it's very much obvious from what you said you're still very much a pashtun
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    (Original post by Zoya Khan)
    Basically, my family background is from Herat but then my family migrated to Pakistan, Sawabi, way before I was born and spread and settled there, so officially, I'm a Pakistani and have got great links to the Pukhtoons living there
    I don't live in the UK, though my English may point out that:^_^:
    I live in the Middle East and it's an awesome, multicultural place to be in I'm not in Saudi Arabia but in Muscat, Oman, so the rules aren't extreme and I have freedom as a girl.
    My family lives in haripur near tarbela dam in a village called khalo though a lot live in ghazi and other areas. We are originally from the more hilly areas of haripur but settled in khalo. I don't know much before that.

    My dad has a book about our family which probably explains it all but it's in Urdu.

    I did Assume you lived in the uk and tbh I don't think I know anyone who lives or has even ben to Oman so pardon my ignorance.
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    i wanna learn pushto

    pakhtuns are thee best:cool:
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    (Original post by kayjay)
    My family lives in haripur near tarbela dam in a village called khalo though a lot live in ghazi and other areas. We are originally from the more hilly areas of haripur but settled in khalo. I don't know much before that.

    My dad has a book about our family which probably explains it all but it's in Urdu.

    I did Assume you lived in the uk and tbh I don't think I know anyone who lives or has even ben to Oman so pardon my ignorance.
    That's cool
    Oh, I'm not so good at reading Urdu though I can read and write in it but slowly but I speak it very fluently and clearly, along with Arabic.
    I've got my family History in a books too, and I guess it's also in Indian libraries, which I hardly took the effort to read and left them back in Pakistan when I went there for a visit. Oh and there is a book about Mohammad Ali Jinnah that is banned by the government and not allowed at airports It's supposed to tell the truth and my family has the few existing copies of it:rolleyes:

    No, it's a general fact that almost everyone on TSR lives in UK so it's expected I'd be the same
    But this place is flooding with Omanis of course but also Indians, Pakistanis and Brits(in order of population) the other minorities are French, Germans, Afghans, Indonesians, some others I don't really care about and Arabs from neighbouring Arab countries. If it holds your interest, some Bollywood actors like Katrina Kaif, Ajay Devgan, Ranbir Kapoor, Amitabh Bachan have also visited here and so has MJ when he was alive. The place is getting more popular. I guess it's like Dubai, only calmer. Oman is not a democracy but the Sultan Qaboos does a lot for the country
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    (Original post by NotSoCool.Fly)
    i wanna learn pushto

    pakhtuns are thee best:cool:
    Awww thanks
    But lemme break it to you that to actually learn Pushto, you have to live around those who speak it. It can't be learned properly any other way
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    yeah damn. but some words can be learnt
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    Yes, you can probably do that but the only way you can speak them right is when you hear it right, not read it. The tone we use is not flat. The stress is on the second half of the word in most cases.
    Well, then you can join pashtunforums.com to learn some pushto
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    (Original post by Pukhtun)
    Khan_79, are you so beghairat that you cannot counter my points? If that is the case then please do not post as it is spam.




    You really think that referendum was valid? hahaha



    As a result of the British carving a line through the Pashtun heartland to divide us.
    But so what?



    Again so what?



    Sell-out Pashtuns who support the killing of their own people.



    Can you prove this? No.



    Biggest lie I have ever heard. ROFL.



    They died defending a country that goes against the interests of Pashtuns.



    What about the operations in the tribal regions?
    What about the butchering of Pashtuns there by your own government?
    It's bad when the Americans do it but when your government does it, it's ok??


    Bro your government is working for America anyway....

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-12982127
    April 6, 2011: Whitehouse reports criticizes Pakistani military for being ineffective (primarily in Waziristan, where the Haqqanis are hiding).

    http://www.dawn.com/2011/04/08/50-mi...d-clashes.html
    April 7, 2011: Pakistani army spokespeople report killing 50 people in Mohmand. No evidence is provided to prove that they were militants. No evidence is demanded by the Pakistani public and the Peshawari Pathans either.


    Explain that for me please.
    Why do you guys hate America so much but then always beg them for money to kill Pashtuns?
    Are you a retard? All you've done is said "No, that didn't happen and neither did this" without a hint of proof for your OWN statements. The Pakistani army is fighting militants and consists of brave men trying to keep the country safe as well as being the country's only stable and functioning institution. It doesn't kill Pathans because it wishes to embark on a genocide against them but more because most of the militants in those areas just happen to belong to that group.

    Of course most Pakistanis hate America and the drone strikes etc.- all polls, all evidence points to that but that doesn't take away the fact that without American support, the economy would sink further and the military would be less able to procure advanced arms.
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    Question;

    those of you whose Pakhtun lands are in Pakistan, do you think of yourselves as Pakistani too or only Pakhtun?

    I also would love to speak Pashto but my granddad said it's bloody hard. I love the melodious tone of it, and the accent of Pakhtuns speaking Urdu.

    (I'm Punjabi btw).
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    (Original post by ZizziHikaru)
    Question;

    those of you whose Pakhtun lands are in Pakistan, do you think of yourselves as Pakistani too or only Pakhtun?
    .
    Can only speak for myself, but yes i think of my self as Pukthun as well as Pakistani.
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    (Original post by ZizziHikaru)
    Question;

    those of you whose Pakhtun lands are in Pakistan, do you think of yourselves as Pakistani too or only Pakhtun?

    I also would love to speak Pashto but my granddad said it's bloody hard. I love the melodious tone of it, and the accent of Pakhtuns speaking Urdu.

    (I'm Punjabi btw).
    Seeing as the tribal region is pretty much autonomous from both countries, from what I've seen of the pashtuns in Birmingham, the ones by the borders consider themselves Pakthuns and Afghans ( lineage means a lot to them) which makes sense since the Afghan border agency accepts them when they apply for nationality and their parents of grandparents will have been official documented Afghans anyway.

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Updated: February 23, 2014
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