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Your views on the Monarchy?

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Reply 80
Original post by TheCaledonian
actually because the profits of the crown estates are given to parliament (£250 million per annum) even with the civil list payments (£59 million per annum) the monarchy saves us money that works out to be greater than £1 per person per annum so if we got rid of the monarchy then not only would the queen be richer but also all of her time would be her own she wouldn't have to allow foreign heads of state to stay in her home nor would she have to spend about 3 hrs of her day reading state papers and more time advising the parliament and on top of all this her finances would not be subject to public scrutiny and neither would her actions. Furthermore if we got rid of the monarchy we would most likely switch to the system used in Europe where we have both a president and a prime-minister and the president does essentially what the Queen currently does only (most likely)costing more money when we add the cost of elections


Why would elections cost more than they currently do all they have to do is cross out the word prime minister and put president or whatever other term we might decide to use we could even call the sole head of state prime minister still it doesn't matter what we call them as long as it is democratic
Original post by Jacktri
1) the royal family aren't our culture they are just a bunch of well off folks that think very little of you.

They think wonderfully of me actually.

Are you going to make the argument , that because they live in Affluence, they harbour content for everyone who does not?
Because there actions certainly run contrary to this.
That's as ridiculous as saying everyone who is poor hates the rich.

2) Tourists come to see landmarks not the royal family. How many times have the people who live in this country actually seen the royal family? let alone some foreigners who come for a couple of weeks.

Wrong, talk to an American, they "adore" our Royal Family, France has castles, and architechture, and Palaces and a rich history that easily matches Englands,

Americans fly across an ocean to see a land filled with Castles that aren’t plastic.
And why do the Americans think Frances castles are so boring and stinky and the UK’s castles so awesome? Because real monarchs still use them.
The tower of London is so stunning to visitors because the Royal Crest on the Yeomen Warders Uniform is real. It’s not a lame historical re-enactment or modern LARPing.

It’s the embodiment of the living, breathing queen. Everywhere you look she’s sprinkled fairy dust on banal objects to make them magically attractive to tourists.

3) Our international image and national pride are of no importance. Defeating an unfair undemocratic regime will give us far more national pride and respect throughout the democratic world.

Except it wouldn't England is overhwelmingly "in-favour" of our Monarchy, so while a few nay-sayers such as yourself would be immsnely pleased with yourself.
Everyone else would be horrified.

4) we should remove them because the people want democracy. We pressure China, start wars in Iraq etc all to create democracy yet we are do not have a fully democracy ourselves.


Unfair and undemocratic, how so?

They have no actual power whatsoever, and no influence in our nations Political system, every input they have on our Political system, is symbolic and Parliament long ago instituted laws which let them simply override the whole process at a whim.

Her powers are limited to a kabuki theater act of approving what parliament wants to do anyway.

Remove the royal family from government and fundamentally nothing would be different except now you wouldn’t live in the magical United Kingdom but the rather dull United Republic of England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. A.K.A URESWNI for short. Doesn’t quite have the same ring to it.

Oh yes, and our taxes would also go up if we got rid of them.
(edited 12 years ago)
Original post by Jacktri
we have a prime minister and election campaigns so your first argument is destroyed.

Having fancy dinners. Eating fancy food. Traveling around the world. Meeting powerful people. Sounds like such a difficult hard life........

Why would we put Tony Blair on a pound coin do you think they have Obama and Bush on dollar bills?


The election campaigns in America and other republics usually involves a multiple tier system where different institutions such as the presidency and congress are elected in different campaigns (which sometimes results in opposing political views where nothing gets done, such as the current financial crisis in the US). In this respect we would have an additional election to elect a president in addition to parliament.

You seem to underestimate the pressure which is on the monarchy at these events. There may be tasty treats but they are not at ease and they are not in a relaxed atmosphere. They travel abroad very often but that is like saying drug-reps for pharmaceutical companies are on a constant holiday :confused: They are working when travelling, not having a blast without a care in the world. If the prime minister of president had to do as much traveling as a whole family of royals, to keep up diplomatic relations, they would be able to spend no time in this country at all.

The last point about pound coins was actually a joke so I don't know why you are taking that seriously :rolleyes:

Personally I would hate to be a royal. Everything you do is deconstructed, analysed and criticised and is way to stressful. I doubt its the life of luxury which its cracked up to be.
Original post by Aphotic Cosmos
France didn't knock down Versailles or the Palais Bourbon, even in the terror of revolutionary France. Germany didn't destroy any of it's palaces or castles when the monarchy was abolished. Culture just evolves. The monarchy becomes part of our history and we move on.p7

The living breahing Monarchy is part of the reason everyone comes to see our Castles and Palaces, and not Frances and Germanys



The Royals' effect on the economy is impossibly to quantity.

So impossible, that every year they file income reports, and every year Economic Anaylst's give us general estimates of how they did in general Tourist income.

It's amazing the Impossible thing's we can do nowadays.




No. The RSPB and RSPCA may have royal patronage, but the colossal majority of their funding comes from private citizens, lottery grants and EU/government funding. They'd just become the BSPB and BSPCA . . .


There are a lot of other minor Charitys that the Royal family are involved in , I would think a four million drop in funds would effect a lot of lives, also high profile patronage, is a proven method to have other people donate as well.
Original post by Jacktri
Why not just have a dictatorship like in China they seem very successful in recent years


but if their leadership makes a wrong decision, they cant vote them out of office...

but in china the politicians are extreeeeeeemely loyal to the state. You must have heard several crazy stories of execution over some corruption charges..

But a dictatorship in britain might not work, because the people are not used to being ruled like that.

Apart from that if the dictator turns out to be a joker, someone who isnt interested in serving the country, just wanting to make big money and getting out of there.......wat then?

so thats why i believe the only way to make britain a better place to live wud be to make media unbiased. Let the queen stay there and also let a democratic gov continue..
Reply 85
an outdated institution which attempts to maintain the view that some people are inherently better than others!
Reply 86
Original post by Cornish student
The election campaigns in America and other republics usually involves a multiple tier system where different institutions such as the presidency and congress are elected in different campaigns (which sometimes results in opposing political views where nothing gets done, such as the current financial crisis in the US). In this respect we would have an additional election to elect a president in addition to parliament.

You seem to underestimate the pressure which is on the monarchy at these events. There may be tasty treats but they are not at ease and they are not in a relaxed atmosphere. They travel abroad very often but that is like saying drug-reps for pharmaceutical companies are on a constant holiday :confused: They are working when travelling, not having a blast without a care in the world. If the prime minister of president had to do as much traveling as a whole family of royals, to keep up diplomatic relations, they would be able to spend no time in this country at all.

The last point about pound coins was actually a joke so I don't know why you are taking that seriously :rolleyes:

Personally I would hate to be a royal. Everything you do is deconstructed, analysed and criticised and is way to stressful. I doubt its the life of luxury which its cracked up to be.


Yet stuff did get done with the situation in the US. It is far more democratic (assuming the politicians aren't bought out by big business....)

So our system and diplomatic relations are superior to all nations without a Monarchy? our diplomatic relations seem to be follow what the rest of Europe and America tell us to do.

You would hate to be one of the most influential/powerful people on the planet okay carry on with your peasant ambitions.
Reply 87
Original post by zedeneye1
but if their leadership makes a wrong decision, they cant vote them out of office...

but in china the politicians are extreeeeeeemely loyal to the state. You must have heard several crazy stories of execution over some corruption charges..

But a dictatorship in britain might not work, because the people are not used to being ruled like that.

Apart from that if the dictator turns out to be a joker, someone who isnt interested in serving the country, just wanting to make big money and getting out of there.......wat then?

so thats why i believe the only way to make britain a better place to live wud be to make media unbiased. Let the queen stay there and also let a democratic gov continue..


We either have full democracy or a full dictatorship. Taking out the worst parts of both certainly sounds like a terrible idea.
Reply 88
Original post by The Mr Z
His job is not to provide "leadership" (and if he was, it would be perfect justification for removing him, he has no mandate to lead)


He doesn't have a job, he has a title. He does some work on behalf of the Queen, and is a Counsellor of State - effectively a non-job unless the Queen becomes incapax. Anyway, leading people is not a job and doesn't require a mandate, just for enough people to follow.

Also "leadership" requires knowledge, understanding and comprehension of the issues involved. Something he lacks - see anything he has ever said regarding healthcare, with particular attention to his support for the scientifically disproven practices of homoeopathy and other "alternate medicines". His "leadership" in this regard has cost lives that would have been saved with proper medical treatment, and also cost the country millions paying known frauds.


Of course being a leader does not require expert knowledge. If that were true, we'd sack the entire government and 98% of the British Parliament - they are not experts: in fact, few leaders are, and they tend to be God-awful. Leading requires taking expert advice, not being beholden to it.

His role is to ensure the proper functioning of the democratic process and government, not be involved in it. If he wishes to be politically active, he must first resign from his position (ie abdicate)


He doesn't have any such role, job or position. He can't resign from a job that doesn't exist. He certainly can't abdicate because he is clearly not King.

You only praise him because you agree with him.


Does anyone entirely agree with any other person? I'm sympathetic to many of his views on the built environment, but then I suspect so are the vast majority of the population. I take little interest in genetically modified crops, and my view on alternative medicine is generally one of 'well, give it a shot': if a doctor thinks someone might benefit from a course of acupuncture or what-have-you, then by all means do it.

What I care about is that someone with a standing in society is speaking out, adding to the debate on certain issues in a confident way and addressing problems when he sees them.
Original post by Jacktri
i disagree with the 'don't broke don't fix it' ideology it is very unambitious and results in stagnation. My ideology is 'if it isn't perfect keep trying'.


Admirable but in this case it'll be load of hoo-hah for not much gain.
God Save the Queen. This is all.
Original post by Three Mile Sprint
The living breahing Monarchy is part of the reason everyone comes to see our Castles and Palaces, and not Frances and Germanys


I think you'll find that Versailles is one of the most beautiful and popular palaces in the world, and is visited by millions of people each year. Buckingham Palace would be a lot more popular if people could go inside it any time of year. Standing outside the gates isn't very fun, and trying to elicit a response from a Guardsman is just stupid.

People flock to see Dover, Edinburgh and Warwick by the hundred-thousand because they're old, impressive, beautiful and very historied. They have nothing whatsoever to do with the Royal Family and haven't done for many years. People would still flock to the Tower by the million because it's an icon of London, because there's no way we'd sell the priceless crown jewels guarded there, and because of the history, not because of the tenuous connection to the monarchy or modern military that the Tower holds today.

So impossible, that every year they file income reports, and every year Economic Anaylst's give us general estimates of how they did in general Tourist income.

It's amazing the Impossible thing's we can do nowadays.


I don't put much stock in estimating something as vague as the economic impact of the Royal Family. It really is impossible to gauge just how much money is spent by tourists because of the existence of the monarchy.

There are a lot of other minor Charitys that the Royal family are involved in , I would think a four million drop in funds would effect a lot of lives, also high profile patronage, is a proven method to have other people donate as well.


We have a glut of people who have earned the public's respect, either grudgingly or happily. We call them celebrities. They already provide patronage to many of our most important charities, lobbies and NGOs.
(edited 12 years ago)
Original post by Jacktri

Original post by Jacktri
Why would elections cost more than they currently do all they have to do is cross out the word prime minister and put president or whatever other term we might decide to use we could even call the sole head of state prime minister still it doesn't matter what we call them as long as it is democratic


that's what happened in Nazi Germany (basically)hitlers party was the largest and they had a vote in their parliament that said that the prime-minister (Hitler) could pass laws and make decisions without consulting the MP's then the one man that could stop him (the president who in that political system [that is still used in most of Europe to this day] who does the exact same job as the Queen in our country died ) Hitler took that job and joined it with his own creating the role Fuhrer. lets face it the monarch is currently the only person that can stop a revolution without her David Cameron would be the "Lord Protector of the United Kingdom" and that is not a future i want to see
Total waste of space in the 21st century.
Reply 94
Original post by Three Mile Sprint
They think wonderfully of me actually.

Are you going to make the argument , that because they live in Affluence, they harbour content for everyone who does not?
Because there actions certainly run contrary to this.
That's as ridiculous as saying everyone who is poor hates the rich.


Wrong, talk to an American, they "adore" our Royal Family, France has castles, and architechture, and Palaces and a rich history that easily matches Englands,

Americans fly across an ocean to see a land filled with Castles that aren’t plastic.
And why do the Americans think Frances castles are so boring and stinky and the UK’s castles so awesome? Because real monarchs still use them.
The tower of London is so stunning to visitors because the Royal Crest on the Yeomen Warders Uniform is real. It’s not a lame historical re-enactment or modern LARPing.

It’s the embodiment of the living, breathing queen. Everywhere you look she’s sprinkled fairy dust on banal objects to make them magically attractive to tourists.


Except it wouldn't England is overhwelmingly "in-favour" of our Monarchy, so while a few nay-sayers such as yourself would be immsnely pleased with yourself.
Everyone else would be horrified.



Unfair and undemocratic, how so?

They have no actual power whatsoever, and no influence in our nations Political system, every input they have on our Political system, is symbolic and Parliament long ago instituted laws which let them simply override the whole process at a whim.

Her powers are limited to a kabuki theater act of approving what parliament wants to do anyway.

Remove the royal family from government and fundamentally nothing would be different except now you wouldn’t live in the magical United Kingdom but the rather dull United Republic of England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. A.K.A URESWNI for short. Doesn’t quite have the same ring to it.

Oh yes, and our taxes would also go up if we got rid of them.


1) the royal family don't know you exist therefore they don't care about you do you care about a random man living in Argentina that you have never seen or spoken to?

2) Having spoken to Americans that aren't the stupid kind none of them have any passion for castles or a monarchy. Sounding like a troll with the magical dust stuff or some sort of trying too hard to be funny person.

3)Yes i'm sure the 'well informed' public are in favour of being ruled by dictatorship you can call them kings and queens all you like but they are no different from any other dictatorship

4) the Queen has great influence but almost everything in politics does not affect her position so she does not get involved why does she care whether the taxes go up or a war starts none of this affects her. But as soon as a politic party says down with the monarchy or stop giving them money the Queen will get involved like monarchs have in the past. none of that will happen of course because the major political parties are run by pro monarchy rich elitists.

5) our taxes would not go up stop reading pro monarchy bias propaganda
(edited 12 years ago)
Original post by Algorithm69
The fact that they "don't cost much" is irrelevant. It is an undemocratic institution.

As for tourism. I'm not advocating murdering them like the Bolsheviks. They should simply be stripped of all power. They can keep their wealth and property. I don't see how that would affect tourism.

I also don't understand how being a Monarchist = down to earth?


They cost loads more than this 70p figure, the cost of protecting them is not included here neither are things such as the cost to the country of the wedding.

The tourism argument is ridiculous, as France has more tourism than us, and so if we stopped arrogantly telling ourselves that they help tourism and actually built some places of interest comparable to France/Spain, things could get even better. Besides no serious study has ever been conducted to determine exactly how much they add to tourism.

As for their wealth and property, it should be confiscated as it was robbed from the people by force-And that's coming from a capitalist(me:smile:).
Original post by Jacktri
Yet stuff did get done with the situation in the US. It is far more democratic (assuming the politicians aren't bought out by big business....)

So our system and diplomatic relations are superior to all nations without a Monarchy? our diplomatic relations seem to be follow what the rest of Europe and America tell us to do.

You would hate to be one of the most influential/powerful people on the planet okay carry on with your peasant ambitions.


I didn't say our system is superior to everyone else's but that some of the most successful nations do have constitutional monarchies (Norway and Sweden for example). It is also quite suited to our small country. There is also little pressure to change the system!

Its hardly peasantry if I lack a crazy power ambition to be one of the most influential people in the world, its called being humble :rolleyes:. If you want that much power, you probably have some sort of inferiority complex. Power is a double edged sword and is often both a curse and a blessing.
Reply 97
Original post by DirtyPrettyThing
Admirable but in this case it'll be load of hoo-hah for not much gain.


That's what our fellow apes said when our ancestors first stood on two legs look at us now. If you don't adapt and change you will lose.
I love the monarchy. It gives us character. Personally I don't want to be like all the other countries; I love that we've managed to keep a hold of our past and we can enjoy admiring that aspect of British culture.
Reply 99
Original post by TheCaledonian
that's what happened in Nazi Germany (basically)hitlers party was the largest and they had a vote in their parliament that said that the prime-minister (Hitler) could pass laws and make decisions without consulting the MP's then the one man that could stop him (the president who in that political system [that is still used in most of Europe to this day] who does the exact same job as the Queen in our country died ) Hitler took that job and joined it with his own creating the role Fuhrer. lets face it the monarch is currently the only person that can stop a revolution without her David Cameron would be the "Lord Protector of the United Kingdom" and that is not a future i want to see


An old woman is not fit to lead a state she has other stuff to worry about like her pension and her free bus pass oh and don't forget the bingo.

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