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What is your opinion on people with Aspergers/autism?

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Oh I'm sorry, I'll just say everything is alright? I'm just stating the current understanding of autism.

calling people defective is OK? And you didn't answer my question, do you call people with, say, spina bifida defective?

Reply 61

morecambebay

Original post by n1r4v

That's true. You're stating facts like I was. I don't understand why people are getting so emotional over this.

People get emotional over it because it effects our lives. If the positives and negatives balance out, how can you claim us to be any more broken than non-autistic people are?

Reply 62

Cities

Original post by Ocassus

They are more severe personality traits, that is really it. It might be physical, but to the individual it is merely who they are.
If the majority of people on this planet had aspergers, and there were a few like the majority of people today, would they then therefore be treated as defective? Because the 'norm' is to have aspergers? Perhaps, but that isn't really right.

People have inherent predispositions to not be able to or learn certain things, they are predispositions that are part of our psyche. Aspergers is merely more prominent and therefore distinguishable, they are otherwise perfectly functioning human beings and should be treated as such. By labelling them explicitly as 'different' from the rest of the human race only serves to isolate them in a bubble of societal pity, when that really isn't necessary, there is no need for it whatsoever.

Yes obviously, if nobody experienced prosody, then it wouldn't exist. But it does. Psyche? Okay that's the turning point, you've shown very little understanding behind autism but that takes the biscuit, I genuinely have no idea what you're talking about.

You are worried about what society sees autism as, but why do you care what society thinks? If autistic people have some symptoms that's a fact, why do you care if a bunch of idiots assume that they are inferior as a result?

Reply 63

Toaster Leavings

So schizophrenics are simply who they are and not experiencing a defective condition?

Aspergers is a disorder and it is defective in that it limits their function in certain areas to a sub-normal level. Whether it is necessary to treat this or not because they have other and perhaps superior functioning in other areas is beside the point.

(edited 12 years ago)

Reply 64

booksnob

Original post by int92

read again 'some of the greatest minds ever'---> better than normal people.

they are defective? who are you to judge whats defective or not, maybe 'normal' people are defective and autistic people arent.

different doesnt mean defective

Defective as in defecting from the norm. Faulty as in not as we're biologically designed.

Please, you're getting emotional. I really don't want to upset. It's murky waters, because this is your identity we're talking about.

This isn't a bad thing. I'm defective I guess--I had perinatal damage at birth. There you are.

Reply 65

booksnob

Original post by Toaster Leavings

So schizophrenics are simply who they are and it is not a defective condition?

Aspergers is a disorder and it is defective in that it limits their function in certain areas to a sub-normal level. Whether it is necessary to treat this or not because they have other, perhaps superior functioning in other areas, is beside the point.

I agree.

Reply 66

username537845

Original post by ricb321

I never had a diagnosis but I remember my parents telling me I have a mild form of this disorder. I frequently look at the symptoms and have related to most of them. I've mentioned it when I made my university applications just so they knew.

I often wish I was a little better off in this aspect, as in socialising and communicating I mean, but it's nothing I haven't been completely brought to a downer by. Whatever opportunities I have to meet with friends and talk I will endeavour to take and improve my communicating and such.

No, I've been alright living with it really.

If you don't mind me asking, how did they know? Given that self diagnosis is tough, and a lot of the time, inaccurate. Also, had you never identified as austistic, do you think your life would have been made any harder/awkward than it is now?
Seems to me like it could just be an unnesseccary label that will only serve to stigmatise you. Then again, I'm not autistic so I guess I can't fully imagine what'd it be like to be.

Reply 67

Cities

Original post by morecambebay

People get emotional over it because it effects our lives. If the positives and negatives balance out, how can you claim us to be any more broken than non-autistic people are?

This is getting really stupid. When the hell did I say autistic people were broken?

If you're angry about how society perceives autistic people that's understandable.

But I didn't say anything of the sort so I'm pretty annoyed that you're assuming I consider autistic people "broken". I'm just trying to convey the current understanding of autism from a scientific viewpoint.

I have no interest in what society thinks; if a bunch of idiots think you're broken then that's they're not worth paying heed to.

Reply 68

Ocassus

Original post by booksnob

That's my understanding anyway. You seem very knowledgable on the matter though. Tell me then, what is the biological difference between an autistic person and a non-autistical person?

An inherent inbalance of chemicals, especially in the limbic system (Emotions), shortened neural pathways, larger frontal cortex, blah blah blah. There are loads of factors in it, but essentially, they are mentally wired up slightly different.

Notice the word different.

There are two cars, the purpose of the car is to travel from A to B.
One car cannot move and is therefore unable to travel, one car can move and can therefore travel. Because one can cannot move, we can ascertain it does not fulfill its purpose and is therefore broken, where the other one works.

Now in a different scenario.
Two cars.
One car can travel from A to B
The other car can travel from A to B faster than the other car, but does it with less fuel efficiency.
The cars both fulfill their function, but in different ways. One car is not defective where the other is not.

Two brains represent the cars in the second scenario, that is what Aspergers/Autism is in a simplified term. (although they aren't necessarily faster, all I am saying is, they aren't 'broken' or faulty or in need to be fixed).

The best thing to happen in the future is that there are less psychologists etc banging on about somebody having defects, and more people simply coming to terms with the fact that some people are different to greater extremes than others.

Reply 69

hunstatham

Original post by Toaster Leavings

so why discriminate against them? I thought modern society said that discrimination was wrong.

Reply 70

morecambebay

Original post by Toaster Leavings

So schizophrenics are simply who they are and it is not a defective condition?

Aspergers is a disorder and it is defective in that it limits their function in certain areas to a sub-normal level. Whether it is necessary to treat this or not because they have other and perhaps superior functioning in other areas is beside the point.

It is not besides the point. It makes it a subjective judgement. And if people are going to label me as defective based on their subjective view of the world they are going to have to learn how to defend themselves against me.

You cant compare everything to what is normal. Not when claiming to be doing science anyway.

Reply 71

int92

Original post by booksnob

we werent 'biologically designed' to do many things, but we evolved.

Reply 72

booksnob

Original post by n1r4v

It's really difficult because there's the highly emotional element attached to this. I guess it feels crap to be told you're not essentially normal, in fact it must be. If you use the term defective in a scientific manner, you can't take away the emotional impact that'll have. It's difficult.

That's why I'm genuinely sorry if I upset or offended anyone with my posts.

Reply 73

morecambebay

Original post by n1r4v

The problem is that the current scientific viewpoint is baseless. It makes no rational sense. The ridiculousness of it doesnt go away because somebody got a phd before writing their crap. It's still crap.

Reply 74

Ocassus

Original post by n1r4v

They have those problems yes, but it is a facet of their consciousness and their being, It is not something to be treated from their perspective because who they are is the biological process in their mind. Because the mind is entirely self contained (unless you believe in souls and that aspergers is a limiting factor where a soul is trying to gain full control if the body, which, if the case, I can't be bothered to elaborate further) within the biological form of the brain, the person IS Aspergers/Autism, not merely a limiting thing.

You are worried about what society sees autism as, but why do you care what society thinks? If autistic people have some symptoms that's a fact, why do you care if a bunch of idiots assume that they are inferior as a result?

Because a great deal of people become depressed because they feel society treats them excessively different, mainly due to the popularisation if it as being a defective trait.

Reply 75

booksnob

Original post by int92

we werent 'biologically designed' to do many things, but we evolved.

For christ sake, I'm not saying autism is bad. I'm not saying it isn't without its benefits. I'm not saying a person can't be perfectly happy and fulfilled with autism. But it's still, at the end of the day, defective. Take away the emotional stigma of that word and it's the core truth.

Reply 76

Ocassus

Original post by booksnob

No it bloody isn't, tell me, without subjectivity or assumption, how it is a defect?

Reply 77

booksnob

Original post by Ocassus

No it bloody isn't, tell me, without subjectivity or assumption, how it is a defect?

Sorry, but assumption is all you have at your disposal too.
I think it's defective because it is not the norm and it brings a lot of problems that don't exist in other people. It isn't what anyone wants to hear but it doesn't make it less true. I see I'm getting neg-repped for my opinion :biggrin: