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using clutch/accelerator

OK, this is probably a really basic question, but I'm slightly confused- can anyone help? :confused:

I haven't been taking driving lessons for very long, but with my instructor I was always taught that when doing a bay park you only need to use the clutch, possibly the brake and not the accelerator, as clutch control should be fine for parking. Was happily making progress with this until I took my Dads car out with him for the first time today.( stressful experience! :eek:

)

He was really surprised at not using the accelerator when parking and kept telling me to use it. Also, a lot of techniques I was given by my instructor seem to contradict what my Dad's saying!! What does anyone else do?
(Hope this question makes sense to people!)

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Reply 1

OMGWTF

Just use the clutch, but be gentle.

Reply 2

Ynox

depends on the size of engine/how worn the clutch is etc.

Most cars i've driven are ok on the clutch to get them moving, smallest engine i've ever driven is a 1.4 though.

I'd listen to your instructor over your dad, after all he is the professional (hopefully...) who is paid to get people through tests.

Reply 3

pghstochaj

Believe the instructor, although try to please your dad if you can.

What car does your dad have and what engine? A fair few instructors use diesels which have more torque than petrols in general and hence it's a lot easier to just use the clutch without stressing the engine with zero throttle.

Once you pass you will just do what feels best at the time.

Reply 4

Diminutive

I'm no expert driver or anything, but when your dad started to drive (presuming it was "ages" ago) cars were less "automatic" than they are today, so any attempt to move without gas would stall. These days cars are better equipped to deal with these situations, so its not always necessary to use the gas... when i first started learning, i was rubbish at setting the gas so would fully pull away just with the clutch... very very very slowly with very little gas. When you get to the biting point, you'll notice that the counter thing goes to like 0.5 or around about there (car dependant). Since when parking its hovering around biting point, you dont need gas. Except when you get your first car (presuming your not super rich) then you will :wink:

of course, i could be totally confused and completely wrong :wink:

Reply 5

thomasp

If I'm reversing, I only ever use the accelerator if the car refuses to move (due to a bump in the road, incline, kerbstone* :wink:

, etc). And this is in a 1.3l car. Also, if the car's been sitting doing nothing for a while, it might take a little persuading to move...

Listen to your instructor, they know what they're talking about (no offense to your dad) - the instructor is a professional. However, if your dad's a driving instructor, then you've got problems :biggrin:

* I've never kerbed while reversing since passing my test, only when parallel parking and going forward, and then you do need the accelerator!

Reply 6

itz_ant

I have gone thru the same experience except its the other way round.
I my instructors car I need to use the gas to move off.

however my dad, who used to be a driving instructor 20 years ago, took me driving in the car he used to teach in (an old nissan micra). I was using the gas to move away, but he told me that I didnt have too. Obviously I was confused because my dad and driving instructor contradicted each other.

My dad then told me that he "set the engine faster" (anyone have a technical explanation for what this is?), so that it helps learner drivers by allowing them to avoid stalling.

Reply 7

pghstochaj

Well, it's not quite as simple as that, the reason why her dad would use throttle with the clutch is simply because he is better at driving and is a lot more confident, learners tend to be taught to use the clutch alone, but as you get better you use the throttle to speed it up where possible.

Any car with enough torque will be fine to not stll unless you simply pull your foot off the clutch without considering anything.

Reply 8

OMGWTF

"set the engine faster"

He could mean he changed the idle rev's so that pulling away you didn't need to give it as much gas, although, its just a waste of petrol and I can't see how he did it easily on a car with electronic injection car, if thats what it had

Reply 9

itz_ant

If i used the clutch alone, the car would stall every time. (in my instructors new micra)

If the car doesnt stall when the car is still and you lift the clutch up, then why does it stall when you brake to a stop and dont press the clutch?

If for some odd reason your vehicle doesnt stall when you brake to a stop and dont press the clutch, then how can you stall it?

Reply 10

technik

most people, especially learners, shouldnt really use the accelerator when parking. it just rushes the whole thing more and makes it more likely to have a harder bump if it all goes tits up.

people who've driven for years probably get used to parking and use the accelerator more as they are better/more experienced at parking and therefore can control easier and get done quicker using it. for those who've only parked a handful of times its better just to be easy on the clutch and do it slowly.

Reply 11

itz_ant

I doubt the car had electronic injection (assuming thats new technology). The car was bought when I was born, so its 17 years old.

Reply 12

pghstochaj

itz_ant

"set the engine faster" is your dad's way of saying increase the RPM (revolutions per minute) of the engine, i.e. more power will be available. It does help prevent stalling. WHy?

Well hopefully you understand what a clutch is, if not very concisely a clutch is two plates. One side is connected to the wheels and the other the engine. THe engine is turning (for example) at 1000rpm, there as if you are just pulling away, the wheel side of the clutch is 0rpm (I am ignoring the gearbox and numerous other things here before a smart ass tries to correct me :wink:

) The clutch plates come together when you lift your foot off the clutch, as the clutch plates touch each other the engine one starts to turn the wheel side. Release the clutch too quickly and with too low RPM and there won't be enough speed in the clutch plate (engine side) to turn the wheel side, so they both come to a sudden stop, engine RPM goes to 0 and you stall.

What is supposed to happen is that you slowly release the clutch until the biting point where they touch nicely and allow you to pull away. With idle RPM (which may be 850RPM) you have less power to turn around the wheels than say at 1500rpm so there is less chance of you stalling....

blah blah blah :wink:

edit: just reread what you said and may have misunderstood. He probably would have adjusted the idle screw to increase idle revs but....i wouldn't do it for a learner since it can mean increased speed during slow movements.

Reply 13

itz_ant

ohhh I see, pghstochaj.

Reply 14

pghstochaj

OMGWTF

Bosch Monotronic injection which is what a lot of early SPI engines used (circa 1992 on...) allows this to be done quite easily but...you wouldn't want to since ECUs decide on the idle RPM.

Reply 15

Dickie

technik

I was taught to use the accelerator to reverse. Although admittedly my Dad taught me to drive, and i can see why an instructor would want a learner to do it (to slow them down), so I'd imagine at some point the instructor will say to use it as well.

Reply 16

centime

Hmmm, well thanks for the suggestions you guys! I guess that the instructor could have changed the idle revs, or maybe it's just an easier car to drive (obviously my dad's is a lot older- gears are more difficult as well).
ynox and pghstochaj you're probably right-personally I'd prefer to avoid using the accelerator when parking if possible since it's what I'm used to...perhaps should also avoid parking lessons from father for a little while as well!!

Reply 17

pghstochaj

You wait until you have been driving a few days/weeks/months/years (different for everybody) and you will see what he was going on about :wink:

It just speeds things up but too much for learners sometimes :smile:

Reply 18

silence

mmm this has always been a dilemma. some cars can just move slowly on the clutch without the accelerator being down - this is what it was like for the car i was learning in. so whenever i was taking off at say traffic lights, or anywhere from a standstill, i just gently lifted the clutch without any gas to get me going. then i got my own car and went for a short drive in it - it was a different story altogether. the car that i drive needs some acceleration, about 1,500 rmp, for the car to start moving off. if it doesn't have it, then it just stalls. and when i first took it out, i kept stalling all down the street and caused a massive traffic jam. so it really depends on the car.

so for any slow movement, like reversing, as well as moving off from a standstill, it really depends on what your car lets you do. but, if one day you got into a car which did things differently, then it could be a bit tricky. that said, accelerating when there isn't any need to won't cause you trouble, whereas not accelerating when the car actually needs some gas could give you problems.