The Student Room Group

Bring back flogging for hooligans.

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Reply 40
Original post by Retrodiction
Which morals?


:facepalm:

The common morals most people have?

Don't cause unecessary violence
Don't steal
Treat others and their property with respect

etc

etc
Reply 41
Original post by Cabine Sono Qui
Hardly. It'd just mean that criminals would be more skillful and dangerous.


No the army would stop them being criminal.
Original post by MonkeyMan2009
may as well go the whole hog and bring in sharia FFS. It will reduce crime rates as a whole quikcly! :rolleyes:


You're right.
Think about what they've done :

-threatened and attacked police
-mugged people
-looted
-vandalised
-arson
-destroyed shops and homes
-threatened the general public
-caused distress and fear in the general public

They are lowlifes. Sub-human. You have to go down hard on them, to both give them due punishment and deter others. Fine them all. Make them clean up the streets and re-build. Kick them out of the council houses if they live in them - there are other more deserving and law abiding people who deserve the spaces. If they're on benefits, cancel it immediately - the public do not want to have the support the people who have caused so much chaos. Do not allow them to get either of them again. And then give them an ultimatum - go in the army for x years (personally, I think the minimum should be 5 years). Send them out to war, and if they die in the process, how many people after seeing what we have would care? At least they'd have done something productive. The other option is that they rot in jail, for say, 10 years. With, the under 13s, social services monitors their household closely and possibly lay down a curfue. If their home life is very bad, they're taken away because the parents clearly aren't doing their job. For the 14-16 year olds, young offenders institute, and if they're still mouthy little ***** at the end of it, they either go into the army for 2 years or prison for 2 years. If they don't get sent away, put down a curfue for them again, and if a few months later commit more crimes, they are punished more severely.

If they know that they will have no mercy with their punishments, we will not have stuff like this happening again. Better to stop a generation of them now before they reproduce and give all their children the same moral values. We'd have far worse riots in the future then.
Plus, you don't want any of these delinquents to be walking around at the time of the London Olympics.

But flogging? Nah, would only cause more riots from the liberals :s-smilie:
Giving them a six week jail sentence won't act as a deterent. Twenty strokes of the cane across a bare bottom will be so painful that they will never want to offend again.
Original post by Billinghaylad1976
After the riots that these mindless scumbag idiots have taken part in, which us taxpayers will end up footing the bill for, isn't it time we brought back flogging violent and aggressive criminals.
These 'people' have mindlessly smashed up other peoples' property and caused mayhem. They need a good dose of the whip for what they've done.
I'm fed up with these bleeding heart liberals talking about the human rights of these rioting scumbags. Don't they realise that these idiots don't listen to reason?


Up until these riots I often derided the left and their non-vengeful rehabilitation approach to everything and complete shunning of discipline. But after a week of obnoxious wan kers calling for the cain, or corporal punishment and 5 years inside for every looter, I kind of see that, aside for cases where it's is absolute insanity to be soft and no punishment to be given like peado's, sadists, rapists, murderers and dangerous people who cause harm to others or endanger them where no rehabilitation or 'reeducation' is of any use, they actually are being far more intelligent than the absolute dim-witted morons who call for flogging to be bought back. There is no rationality or balanced thought given. Just sad cases acting like they've never done anything wrong or that they regret in their life wanting violent retribution.



State sanctioned violence to appease vengeance-ridden, sadistic dickheads who think just because they get taxed they have a right to call for severe punitive measures such a flogging, preferably publicly?

Don't be stupid. The outcry from people about this has sickened me more than the events.
(edited 12 years ago)
Original post by Underground906
Up until these riots I often derided the left and their non-vengeful rehabilitation approach to everything and complete shunning of discipline. But after a week of obnoxious wan kers calling for the cain, or corporal punishment and 5 years inside for every looter, I kind of see that, aside for cases where it's is absolute insanity to be soft and no punishment to be given like peado's, sadists, rapists, murderers and dangerous people who cause harm to others or endanger them where no rehabilitation or 'reeducation' is of any use, they actually are being far more intelligent than the absolute dim-witted morons who call for flogging to be bought back. There is no rationality or balanced thought given. Just sad cases acting like they've never done anything wrong or that they regret in their life wanting violent retribution.



State sanctioned violence to appease vengeance-ridden, sadistic dickheads who think just because they get taxed they have a right to call for severe punitive measures such a flogging, preferably publicly?

Don't be stupid. The outcry from people about this has sickened me more than the events.


Do you realy know what you're talking about? These rioters are thugs and thieves. How can you say that you are more outraged by people saying that they should be punished, than by the riots themselves?
Original post by Billinghaylad1976
Do you realy know what you're talking about? These rioters are thugs and thieves. How can you say that you are more outraged by people saying that they should be punished, than by the riots themselves?


Yes, I do know what I am talking about. I'm not more outraged. I said I'm more sickened by the calls from those people calling for those types of things in revenge compared with all but the arsonists and those who caused wanton destruction to local businesses and homes and caused real damage to people (''They'' are not all the same). And that is because the media and people in general have used this one event to say, right everyone one of us who wasn't involved in this and condemn it are the ''decent, moral, upstanding, law abiding majority''. Those involved in it, no matter what the circumstances, age range or motivation are sub-human scum, thieves, thugs and vermin who, to some, need to die, be imprisoned for years on end or beaten severely by the authorities.

There's this artificial divide made. And it's just a big ****ing lie (for a lot of hypocrites positioning themselves on the respectable side of that divide). Not all, as there are genuinely decent, respectable members of society and their anger is very understandable and there calls for those responsible to be dealt with accordingly are rational and balanced. They have no comprehension of how people could do this genuinely. However, many of those who are disgusted have done something frowned upon in the past, and are no more a decent, respectable member of society than some of the people caught up in the riots. And this black and white thinking about this issue, the scum on one side and the 'decent majority' on the other distorts reality. Think how many peado's or a multitude of other undesirables then become part of that 'decent majority' who weren't involved but still call for these people to be subjected to severe revenge.

All these tossers jumping on the bandwagon. Another thing is the shock about this. As if the decay of society has not been apparent for years, but nothing's been done. It just appalls me that the papers have been filled with moral outrages on a daily basis for many years yet it takes something like this for people to look at society and attempt to stem that moral decline and question what is wrong with it and how we fix it (which will continue until this blows over and then return to apathy as long as it's not infringing on 'decent' society too much).

Discipline and education (including rehabilitation) is needed in both school and the prison system as well as elsewhere and in society on the whole. They can coexist and there is no need for jumping to extremes. You think policemen or court appointed floggers flogging these people will solve anything and not get those people killed in this day and age? And more people need to care about others and society. But they don't. They don't give a toss about people in general and only react when something effects them. And most are without compassion and empathy themselves.

People selfishly calling for revenge to satisfy their own lust for it aren't really decent people who care about society or how to deal with the social problems in the future to create a better, more respectable society. And that's why them acting like they do fit in that category is to me more sickening than the riots who don't claim any moral high ground or pretend to give a ****.

And getting taxed by the government does not make someone decent and upstanding or morally superior with the right to demand punishment for something that hasn't effected them directly. Contrast that with the dignity, grace and humanity displayed by the father whose son was killed alongside two other in Birmingham and the mindset of small minded idiots spewing their bile and vindictiveness seem ridiculous.
(edited 12 years ago)
Original post by PointyElbow
Think about what they've done :

-threatened and attacked police
-mugged people
-looted
-vandalised
-arson
-destroyed shops and homes
-threatened the general public
-caused distress and fear in the general public

They are lowlifes. Sub-human. You have to go down hard on them, to both give them due punishment and deter others. Fine them all. Make them clean up the streets and re-build. Kick them out of the council houses if they live in them - there are other more deserving and law abiding people who deserve the spaces. If they're on benefits, cancel it immediately - the public do not want to have the support the people who have caused so much chaos. Do not allow them to get either of them again. And then give them an ultimatum - go in the army for x years (personally, I think the minimum should be 5 years). Send them out to war, and if they die in the process, how many people after seeing what we have would care? At least they'd have done something productive. The other option is that they rot in jail, for say, 10 years. With, the under 13s, social services monitors their household closely and possibly lay down a curfue. If their home life is very bad, they're taken away because the parents clearly aren't doing their job. For the 14-16 year olds, young offenders institute, and if they're still mouthy little ***** at the end of it, they either go into the army for 2 years or prison for 2 years. If they don't get sent away, put down a curfue for them again, and if a few months later commit more crimes, they are punished more severely.

If they know that they will have no mercy with their punishments, we will not have stuff like this happening again. Better to stop a generation of them now before they reproduce and give all their children the same moral values. We'd have far worse riots in the future then.
Plus, you don't want any of these delinquents to be walking around at the time of the London Olympics.

But flogging? Nah, would only cause more riots from the liberals :s-smilie:



Next time this happens, I sincerely hope they only target ****ing gigantic, up their own arse, sanctimonious idiots like you. If you have no qualms of putting them in the army and saying if they died who'd care, you, and anyone else who thinks that, have absolutely no moral high ground or decency and should ****ing well stop deluding yourselves that you do or that you are decent people. Because you're not. You're bigoted scum.
Underground906, do I take it that you were one of the rioters?
Original post by All Black Everything
You're a fool if you think beating people in the street is going to achieve anything.


Yet it works in China.... :erm:

UK recidivism rate - 74%
China recidivism rate - 8%
Original post by PointyElbow

They are lowlifes. Sub-human.


"Us" and "them" attitudes don't get people anywhere. You think about them as not being human, you don't care about their rights?

What's ironic is that you've found yourself in the same selfish mindset as a rioter who feels no sympathy for the people they are looting. They might have robbed people, but apparently you'd have people die and/or "rot" in prison and their children starve without benefits. I guess you'd say you don't need a moral compass because "they started it". Sounds like the kind of justice a toddler would produce.


Issues like this need to be looked at carefully through a cold lens. Not one clouded with rage and/or fake moral superiority.

If you foresee that a punishment will only lead to further disobedience, and your plan for this outcome is "more and more severe punishment" I can only say that you've allowed your own vindictiveness to overcome reason.

Punishment is expensive, often prevents the punished person from being legitimate and/or useful, and causes resentment (potentially further disobedience, if not played right). With this in mind, imo, punishment should be viewed as an investment in reforming that individual so that they will not commit crime again.

Additionally, I agree with everything underground has said.

Original post by Billinghaylad1976
Underground906, do I take it that you were one of the rioters?


Obviously not, you moron. Is that your best attempt to try to undermine what he/she has said?

I don't suppose you think victorian society when they did flog people was free of violence, riots and crime?
(edited 12 years ago)
Original post by AreYouDizzeeBlud_x
Yet it works in China.... :erm:

UK recidivism rate - 74%
China recidivism rate - 8%


Would you really rather live in China than the UK? Sure we could reduce crime by becoming a totalitarian state...

You can hardly trust anything the Chinese report on their internal affairs anyway.

Note: Their crime rate would additonally be higher if they included those crimes committed by their own government.
Original post by BeanofJelly
Would you really rather live in China than the UK? Sure we could reduce crime by becoming a totalitarian state...

You can hardly trust anything the Chinese report on their internal affairs anyway.

Note: Their crime rate would additonally be higher if they included those crimes committed by their own government.


Not China, no, just as im not particularly fond of living in the UK at the moment either, well not in the cities anyway. I can fully understand why so many move to rural villages away from all this malarkey.

All im saying is, we could find some sort of middle ground. At the moment we're too liberal. We dont want to become too authoritarian either. That would be just as bad, we need middle ground. I do think we need to get slightly stricter and scrap some of the nonsensical liberties that are allowing people to think they can get away with things like this.
Original post by AreYouDizzeeBlud_x
Yet it works in China.... :erm:

UK recidivism rate - 74%
China recidivism rate - 8%


If you want this country to go the same way that China has then you have serious problems. A recidivism rate is not the crime rate either. Its just the likelihood of whether they will re offend or not.
Reply 55
We should go A-rab on their ass and cut off their hands
Original post by AreYouDizzeeBlud_x

All im saying is, we could find some sort of middle ground. At the moment we're too liberal. We dont want to become too authoritarian either. That would be just as bad, we need middle ground. I do think we need to get slightly stricter and scrap some of the nonsensical liberties that are allowing people to think they can get away with things like this.


I see where you're coming from, but I feel the real, deep problem is that people don't care enough about other people, don't have respect enough for the reasons why we have laws, to not do this kind of ****.

Obviously, there are always going to be some crappy people, but there seem to be whole areas like this.

I think it's a problem with our culture. Selfishness, materialism, entitlement, excessive individualism and take-what-you-can-get. Us and them. Ignorance and stupidity.

It comes out in Tottenham as people burning and looting. But you know, it's also reflected in our politicians and our bankers and our CEOs. They take what they can get too. So many of the people reacting to this with stuff like "they should all be executed!!!" or "take away their benefits, that's MY MONEY", to me they're just showing it too.

Cutting funds for desperately needed care services because (some) people can't stand the thought of any of their precious money being spent on anyone else (just culturally, it seems we hate the idea of helping one another) is to me, just the other side of the coin from the people who'll happily waltz into a small business and nick some stuff. Both parties have the same feeling of entitlement and well.. "who cares, because that person who's going to lose out isn't me".

I don't know if you can see what I mean at all, really.

I think the more selfish and less socialist (almost culturally more so than legally) we become, the more I feel our societal problems are going to get worse.

People blame liberalism, but I think its margeret thatcher's "there is no society, only individuals and families" style attitude that is responsible. That's the message coming from the top, basically, isn't it? "Best to look out for yourself".


EDIT: I think most of the looters are more stupid and thoughtless than evil. They're just going along with what everyone around them considers acceptable. The majority of people throughout history have always been willing to "go along with" what everyone around them considers acceptable. Obviously, that doesn't mean there should not be consequences. More important, I think, than the severity of the punishment, is the catch-rate (that as many as possible are caught and punished quickly) - I think actually the police and courts have done reasonably well in the aftermath with arrests and charges. But to prevent stuff like this (inc just general yobbery) from continuing, there needs to be some intervention to interrupt the culture that exists in which looting/crime is acceptable. The kind of stuff that youth services have been trying to do.
(edited 12 years ago)
Original post by All Black Everything
If you want this country to go the same way that China has then you have serious problems. A recidivism rate is not the crime rate either. Its just the likelihood of whether they will re offend or not.


Where did I say I wanted the country to go the same way as China? No I never. What I did say is that we should find middle ground and if we can get a recidivism rate around 40-50% because of that then that is better than the 74% rate we currently have.
Reply 58
Original post by Billinghaylad1976
After the riots that these mindless scumbag idiots have taken part in, which us taxpayers will end up footing the bill for, isn't it time we brought back flogging violent and aggressive criminals.
These 'people' have mindlessly smashed up other peoples' property and caused mayhem. They need a good dose of the whip for what they've done.
I'm fed up with these bleeding heart liberals talking about the human rights of these rioting scumbags. Don't they realise that these idiots don't listen to reason?


I agree with you.
Original post by BeanofJelly
I see where you're coming from, but I feel the real, deep problem is that people don't care enough about other people, don't have respect enough for the reasons why we have laws, to not do this kind of ****.

I think it's a problem with our culture. Selfishness, materialism, entitlement, excessive individualism and take-what-you-can-get. Us and them. Ignorance and stupidity.

I don't know if you can see what I mean at all, really.


Yes I can, I agree with this.


People blame liberalism, but I think its margeret thatcher's "there is no society, only individuals and families" style attitude that is responsible. That's the message coming from the top, basically, isn't it? "Best to look out for yourself".


Labour have already accepted joint responsibility. Liberalism does have to take a lot of the blame for this. As Labour got more liberal, things got worse. The thing is, when you give a bit more, people in society try and push the boundaries a bit further and take a bit more, thus you end up in a situation like this where there is no give, but a lot of taking, on all levels in society, even MP's are at it.

We need middle ground, if we get slightly stricter, scrap this PC attitude and adapt a common sense attitude, we'll be on the right path. We shouldn't go too far authoritarian though, that would be disastrous.

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