riots are a result of capitalism
these people are unemployed people without prospects why? because there are only x amount of jobs in the economy and these jobs will go the best candidates. You can say "well they should work harder" but if they worked harder and got jobs it would be at the expense of someone else and then they would simply be the ones rioting
they are just a symptom of capitalism for years in the west we have been nice and successful because we have just been able to borrow money and spend it to create jobs well now capitalism is falling apart and the poor people without prospects are using it as an opportunity to take free stuff
they are just a symptom of capitalism for years in the west we have been nice and successful because we have just been able to borrow money and spend it to create jobs well now capitalism is falling apart and the poor people without prospects are using it as an opportunity to take free stuff
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have to disagree with you there, they are merely opportunistic thiefs as highlighted
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-14460554
this is just violence and crime because they think they can get away with it.
Among them were a graphic designer, college students, a youth worker, a university graduate and a man signed up to join the army.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-14460554
this is just violence and crime because they think they can get away with it.
Original post by jimtrix
Original post by jimtrix
these people are unemployed people without prospects why? because there are only x amount of jobs in the economy and these jobs will go the best candidates. You can say "well they should work harder" but if they worked harder and got jobs it would be at the expense of someone else and then they would simply be the ones rioting
they are just a symptom of capitalism for years in the west we have been nice and successful because we have just been able to borrow money and spend it to create jobs well now capitalism is falling apart and the poor people without prospects are using it as an opportunity to take free stuff
they are just a symptom of capitalism for years in the west we have been nice and successful because we have just been able to borrow money and spend it to create jobs well now capitalism is falling apart and the poor people without prospects are using it as an opportunity to take free stuff
Please, don't blame capitalism. Blame the retards.
haha. Criticising Capitalism on a computer...
Say it again and this time listen for the irony
Say it again and this time listen for the irony
Original post by michaelhaych
haha. Criticising Capitalism on a computer...
Say it again and this time listen for the irony
Say it again and this time listen for the irony
Bloody well said.
As for you OP, no if we had real capitalism this disorder would never have happened.
"I failed to gain qualifications earlier in my life. This is not my fault, but the government's; I can now not get a job because of what I did earlier, but this is still not my fault but the government's. Companies should not hire candidates that have better qualifications and will perform better at the job, but they should higher me because if not, it's the governments fault. What should I do as a result? RIOT!"
That is what people who are using unemployment as an excuse for rioting believe.
That is what people who are using unemployment as an excuse for rioting believe.
(edited 12 years ago)
Original post by jimtrix
these people are unemployed people without prospects why? because there are only x amount of jobs in the economy and these jobs will go the best candidates. You can say "well they should work harder" but if they worked harder and got jobs it would be at the expense of someone else and then they would simply be the ones rioting
they are just a symptom of capitalism for years in the west we have been nice and successful because we have just been able to borrow money and spend it to create jobs well now capitalism is falling apart and the poor people without prospects are using it as an opportunity to take free stuff
they are just a symptom of capitalism for years in the west we have been nice and successful because we have just been able to borrow money and spend it to create jobs well now capitalism is falling apart and the poor people without prospects are using it as an opportunity to take free stuff
Capitalism has been dominant since before the Roman and persian empires. If you ****ing commies could do anything you would.
Original post by cid
have to disagree with you there, they are merely opportunistic thiefs as highlighted
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-14460554
this is just violence and crime because they think they can get away with it.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-14460554
this is just violence and crime because they think they can get away with it.
They mentioned about 7 peoples occupations.. what about hundreds of others? I agree with OP, the targets are random and show a complete disregard for the community. People who get respect give it.
Original post by michaelhaych
haha. Criticising Capitalism on a computer...
Say it again and this time listen for the irony
Say it again and this time listen for the irony
What link am i missing between advancement of technology and an economic system? It might of sped it up or even slowed it down but the fact is some form of computer would of been invented one day so what are you going on about?
The fact of the matter is that most of the people we see robbing shops in Hackney are only ALIVE because of the state. IF there was not a system of generous state support, at some point down the line, their ancestors would not have been able to AFFORD to have kids. They had kids because they knew they would be looked after by the state.
Not only this but their whole meaning of life for most of these people is nothing more base than to amass the fruits of the capitalist system - note the armfuls of Reeboks. These people complain about capitalism but they are just as much in its thrall as anyone. If you offered them a piece of land and some seeds- I doubt they'd take you up on your offer. They are addicted to the benefits that come with a capitalist society. Therefore, as they wish to live the capitalist system and benefit from it's fruits, they have absolutely no right to complain about it.
If you take a peasant from 500 years ago, the chances are he would come form a long line of self sufficient agricultural labourers. If you take a kid on the streets of Hackney, the chances are he comes from along line of benefit claimers. How dare they criticize a system that is the only reason such useless incapable people are alive at all.
Not only this but their whole meaning of life for most of these people is nothing more base than to amass the fruits of the capitalist system - note the armfuls of Reeboks. These people complain about capitalism but they are just as much in its thrall as anyone. If you offered them a piece of land and some seeds- I doubt they'd take you up on your offer. They are addicted to the benefits that come with a capitalist society. Therefore, as they wish to live the capitalist system and benefit from it's fruits, they have absolutely no right to complain about it.
If you take a peasant from 500 years ago, the chances are he would come form a long line of self sufficient agricultural labourers. If you take a kid on the streets of Hackney, the chances are he comes from along line of benefit claimers. How dare they criticize a system that is the only reason such useless incapable people are alive at all.
(edited 12 years ago)
Original post by PendulumBoB
Bloody well said.
As for you OP, no if we had real capitalism this disorder would never have happened.
As for you OP, no if we had real capitalism this disorder would never have happened.
Agreed pure capitalism is a lot more brutal than what we have now.
Pure capitalism (I believe) would either fail due to popular uprising or bee too immoral or inhumane to implement.
A mix of capitalism and socialism (what we have now) is much more disireable.
Original post by Usn1
Capitalism has been dominant since before the Roman and persian empires. If you ****ing commies could do anything you would.
captalism works without debt and over population governments and people borrowed for years this gave us conditions to increase our population and now that we can't borrow anymore we simply don't have enough jobs
Original post by jimtrix
these people are unemployed people without prospects why? because there are only x amount of jobs in the economy and these jobs will go the best candidates. You can say "well they should work harder" but if they worked harder and got jobs it would be at the expense of someone else and then they would simply be the ones rioting
they are just a symptom of capitalism for years in the west we have been nice and successful because we have just been able to borrow money and spend it to create jobs well now capitalism is falling apart and the poor people without prospects are using it as an opportunity to take free stuff
they are just a symptom of capitalism for years in the west we have been nice and successful because we have just been able to borrow money and spend it to create jobs well now capitalism is falling apart and the poor people without prospects are using it as an opportunity to take free stuff
Oh please, this has nothing to do with the capitalism. Your old fashioned text-book socialist analysis fails completely here. Capitalism is not falling apart, what we've had are recessions and debt crises; these things are only temporary. Whenever an economic crisis comes along, we get people like you complaining that capitalism is failing, no it isn't. Ever heard of something called the "business cycle"?
Furthermore, don't even try and politicize these people by giving them an excuse; these people are weak minds with even weaker characters; most of these criminals wouldn't even have a job even if we were in an economic boom, because they are useless and talentless. Even if they have no prospects in life, it does not mean they have any right to destroy the livelihoods of others. Capitalism is not at fault here: it is greed, weak characters, poor parenting, criminal opportunism and a lack of respect for the law and property.
Original post by Usn1
Agreed pure capitalism is a lot more brutal than what we have now.
Pure capitalism (I believe) would either fail due to popular uprising or bee too immoral or inhumane to implement.
A mix of capitalism and socialism (what we have now) is much more disireable.
Pure capitalism (I believe) would either fail due to popular uprising or bee too immoral or inhumane to implement.
A mix of capitalism and socialism (what we have now) is much more disireable.
Oh really I always thought that the silly people who live in Switzerland or Singapore or Hong Kong, were leading better lives than us.
Original post by EggmanD
They mentioned about 7 peoples occupations.. what about hundreds of others? I agree with OP, the targets are random and show a complete disregard for the community. People who get respect give it.
What link am i missing between advancement of technology and an economic system? It might of sped it up or even slowed it down but the fact is some form of computer would of been invented one day so what are you going on about?
What link am i missing between advancement of technology and an economic system? It might of sped it up or even slowed it down but the fact is some form of computer would of been invented one day so what are you going on about?
i think the mentioned occupations were just an example of how these rioters are from all walks of life and not simply the working class and unemployed i'm sure it was not the intention to slight any ones occupation.
Hell my occupation is mentioned, understand a job doesn't stop a dick being a dick.
The riots have the hallmarks of just pure mindless criminality, however when you look at the bigger picture and the unrest across the world in Egypt, Greece, Spain, France, even israel it has a common theme: increasing prices, unemployment, unemployment for graduates etc and then the dismay at the corrupt financial system.
Original post by EggmanD
What link am i missing between advancement of technology and an economic system? It might of sped it up or even slowed it down but the fact is some form of computer would of been invented one day so what are you going on about?
What link am i missing between advancement of technology and an economic system? It might of sped it up or even slowed it down but the fact is some form of computer would of been invented one day so what are you going on about?
The computer is the physical embodiment of Capitalism,
A computer is assembled for next to nothing by some of the millions of young men and women who leave the land in China every year, as part of "economic restructuring".
None of these workers has recourse to a trade union or state welfare. They can be, and are, made to work long hours in sweatshops for pennies an hour and sacked as soon as the market dips or their performance flags. "Grandma, where are your glasses?" is the running joke among worn-out 25 and 26 year-old women chip-assemblers in Hong Kong. In Malaysia, where my computer's RAM chips were made, "local law prohibits meetings of more than five people, in effect making any type of organizing drive impossible".
Having cost people their health, eyesight (due to the vast amounts highly toxic chemicals used in production) and civil liberties, this computer is scheduled to become trashed after a mere 2-3 years. There is almost nothing in it that can be repaired, and it will be almost impossible to upgrade it to whatever specification comes next. There is no way of attaching older peripherals so they are trash, too. And almost none of it can be recycled.
It was made with the cheapest labour on the planet, in subsidised factories, yet the manufacturers still could not afford the little touches, like screws and sockets instead of glue, that would permit repair or upgrade. So when I throw it away (as I am condemned eventually to do) newly-poor people in Guangdong, China, or the suburbs of New Delhi will dispose of its carcinogenic innards for $1.50 a day with their bare hands, and their neighbours and children will take care of any pollution that ensues.
A computer made any other way than the capitalist way, using well paid, over-unionised workforces, would be massively unaffordable to the general public.
You say that you are against capitalism yet you have no issue with reaping the fruits of it's labour.
(That bit is aimed at OP not you, unless of course, you are opposed to Capitalism)
(edited 12 years ago)
Original post by jimtrix
Bring in communism!
Original post by michaelhaych
The computer is the physical embodiment of Capitalism,
A computer is assembled for next to nothing by some of the millions of young men and women who leave the land in China every year, as part of "economic restructuring".
None of these workers has recourse to a trade union or state welfare. They can be, and are, made to work long hours in sweatshops for pennies an hour and sacked as soon as the market dips or their performance flags. "Grandma, where are your glasses?" is the running joke among worn-out 25 and 26 year-old women chip-assemblers in Hong Kong. In Malaysia, where my computer's RAM chips were made, "local law prohibits meetings of more than five people, in effect making any type of organizing drive impossible".
Having cost people their health, eyesight (due to the vast amounts highly toxic chemicals used in production) and civil liberties, this computer is scheduled to become trashed after a mere 2-3 years. There is almost nothing in it that can be repaired, and it will be almost impossible to upgrade it to whatever specification comes next. There is no way of attaching older peripherals so they are trash, too. And almost none of it can be recycled.
It was made with the cheapest labour on the planet, in subsidised factories, yet the manufacturers still could not afford the little touches, like screws and sockets instead of glue, that would permit repair or upgrade. So when I throw it away (as I am condemned eventually to do) newly-poor people in Guangdong, China, or the suburbs of New Delhi will dispose of its carcinogenic innards for $1.50 a day with their bare hands, and their neighbours and children will take care of any pollution that ensues.
A computer made any other way than the capitalist way, using well paid, over-unionised workforces, would be massively unaffordable to the general public.
You say that you are against capitalism yet you have no issue with reaping the fruits of it's labour.
(That bit is aimed at OP not you, unless of course, you are opposed to Capitalism)
A computer is assembled for next to nothing by some of the millions of young men and women who leave the land in China every year, as part of "economic restructuring".
None of these workers has recourse to a trade union or state welfare. They can be, and are, made to work long hours in sweatshops for pennies an hour and sacked as soon as the market dips or their performance flags. "Grandma, where are your glasses?" is the running joke among worn-out 25 and 26 year-old women chip-assemblers in Hong Kong. In Malaysia, where my computer's RAM chips were made, "local law prohibits meetings of more than five people, in effect making any type of organizing drive impossible".
Having cost people their health, eyesight (due to the vast amounts highly toxic chemicals used in production) and civil liberties, this computer is scheduled to become trashed after a mere 2-3 years. There is almost nothing in it that can be repaired, and it will be almost impossible to upgrade it to whatever specification comes next. There is no way of attaching older peripherals so they are trash, too. And almost none of it can be recycled.
It was made with the cheapest labour on the planet, in subsidised factories, yet the manufacturers still could not afford the little touches, like screws and sockets instead of glue, that would permit repair or upgrade. So when I throw it away (as I am condemned eventually to do) newly-poor people in Guangdong, China, or the suburbs of New Delhi will dispose of its carcinogenic innards for $1.50 a day with their bare hands, and their neighbours and children will take care of any pollution that ensues.
A computer made any other way than the capitalist way, using well paid, over-unionised workforces, would be massively unaffordable to the general public.
You say that you are against capitalism yet you have no issue with reaping the fruits of it's labour.
(That bit is aimed at OP not you, unless of course, you are opposed to Capitalism)
The exploitation of the poor is the fuel of capitalism.. a computer is an assembled product made from elements?
I dont think its fair to claim its 'reaping the fruits of its labour' when its is impossible to buy something that doesn't have a link to china or cheap labour. You cannot suggest that to have a leg to stand on OP must dig up ore and oil (cant buy it now!) and mould and shape them into components then create a solar panel from leaves and water to power it or something.. computers and components are all made in china, thats a fact and suggesting he cannot criticise something despite getting benefits from it is an absurd idea and portrays semi conscious conformity.
OP is not a vegan criticizing the vege diet for using animal tested products, he is making a valid point. The fact is when you live a futureless and hopeless life you get angry. Not all of the people on the street are, that would be a foolish assumption but a lot of the people rioting and looting are young, impressionable and dont care about anything which is evident. I also think the fact that the majority of these people have no futures either sponging benefits or working dead end jobs whilst living in such an excessive consumer society has influenced proceedings. If they were angry about a shooting they would be burning police stations, but they are looting shops, they are consuming products like they are told to just without paying for them first.
One last thing...im not putting down capitalism, it has aspects i like but in this day and age we can do much better and im not talking about some hideous ancient failed system, something fresh.. you think if we could land a man on the moon we could at least deal with these minor issues.
Original post by EggmanD
The exploitation of the poor is the fuel of capitalism.. a computer is an assembled product made from elements?
I dont think its fair to claim its 'reaping the fruits of its labour' when its is impossible to buy something that doesn't have a link to china or cheap labour. You cannot suggest that to have a leg to stand on OP must dig up ore and oil (cant buy it now!) and mould and shape them into components then create a solar panel from leaves and water to power it or something.. computers and components are all made in china, thats a fact and suggesting he cannot criticise something despite getting benefits from it is an absurd idea and portrays semi conscious conformity.
OP is not a vegan criticizing the vege diet for using animal tested products, he is making a valid point. The fact is when you live a futureless and hopeless life you get angry. Not all of the people on the street are, that would be a foolish assumption but a lot of the people rioting and looting are young, impressionable and dont care about anything which is evident. I also think the fact that the majority of these people have no futures either sponging benefits or working dead end jobs whilst living in such an excessive consumer society has influenced proceedings. If they were angry about a shooting they would be burning police stations, but they are looting shops, they are consuming products like they are told to just without paying for them first.
One last thing...im not putting down capitalism, it has aspects i like but in this day and age we can do much better and im not talking about some hideous ancient failed system, something fresh.. you think if we could land a man on the moon we could at least deal with these minor issues.
I dont think its fair to claim its 'reaping the fruits of its labour' when its is impossible to buy something that doesn't have a link to china or cheap labour. You cannot suggest that to have a leg to stand on OP must dig up ore and oil (cant buy it now!) and mould and shape them into components then create a solar panel from leaves and water to power it or something.. computers and components are all made in china, thats a fact and suggesting he cannot criticise something despite getting benefits from it is an absurd idea and portrays semi conscious conformity.
OP is not a vegan criticizing the vege diet for using animal tested products, he is making a valid point. The fact is when you live a futureless and hopeless life you get angry. Not all of the people on the street are, that would be a foolish assumption but a lot of the people rioting and looting are young, impressionable and dont care about anything which is evident. I also think the fact that the majority of these people have no futures either sponging benefits or working dead end jobs whilst living in such an excessive consumer society has influenced proceedings. If they were angry about a shooting they would be burning police stations, but they are looting shops, they are consuming products like they are told to just without paying for them first.
One last thing...im not putting down capitalism, it has aspects i like but in this day and age we can do much better and im not talking about some hideous ancient failed system, something fresh.. you think if we could land a man on the moon we could at least deal with these minor issues.
You're correct, he cannot create his own computer but he chooses to own one, doesn't he? A computer is not a necessity.
He does not need a computer, many people don't have a computer and get by perfectly fine.
He chose to go out and buy something that is produced using a Capitalist system, a system which exploits others, a system which he is condoning by buying its products, and he uses it to criticise Capitalism. That is a highly flawed and fallacious approach. Hence my original point.
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