Why are people all of a sudden becoming so racist against black people?
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Sadly, the stupid seem to make the most noise.
My friend said she heard one of the BBC reporters describe most culprits as 25 year old black males. Apart from being oddly specific , there's also the fact half the time you can't tell skin colour from the blurry blobs wearing hoods shown, and when the camera zooms in- it does tend to be on a black person.
I think this is partly the media and mostly ignorance. But it makes me sad.
I think this is partly the media and mostly ignorance. But it makes me sad.
(edited 12 years ago)
Original post by Aspudgun
I think crime is usually commit due to poverty, poor education and little prospects in life. That is of course where there is a financial benefit from the crime. As for violent crimes committed for no financial gain, well I think that would be down to education, upbringing and possibly genetic.
As for crime being a genetic trait, I doubt it. But the reasons for crime could certainly be a genetic trait, i.e. poverty, difficulties with education etc.
As for crime being a genetic trait, I doubt it. But the reasons for crime could certainly be a genetic trait, i.e. poverty, difficulties with education etc.
Difficulties with education - so many different factors involved, many of which are not and cannot be genetic.
Poverty - not genetic
Crime - not genetic
People don't just commit crime for financial benefit like you said but that doesn't mean the only other possible motivation would be a natural inclination.
Personally I think it's lack of parental authority figures and therefore lack of any sort of control. More single parent families probably doesn't help either and teachers aren't even effective authority figures because they have zero power to do anything.
what annoys me is those that when you mention white people its not a problem. yeah 50-60% are black and its a problem but there is still another 30%
i hear numerous excuses for them as well
but there chavs(like there a different mammal or something)
they only do it as they are influenced by black culture(yeah)
they just wanted to have fun
no doubt there is major problems in the black underclass but the riots also prove they are there in the white underclass as well
and i dont wanna hear there all immigrants. the majority of the people rioting will probaly be born here(cant confirm until stats are realeased)
i hear numerous excuses for them as well
but there chavs(like there a different mammal or something)
they only do it as they are influenced by black culture(yeah)
they just wanted to have fun
no doubt there is major problems in the black underclass but the riots also prove they are there in the white underclass as well
and i dont wanna hear there all immigrants. the majority of the people rioting will probaly be born here(cant confirm until stats are realeased)
Original post by Nomes89
Difficulties with education - so many different factors involved, many of which are not and cannot be genetic.
Poverty - not genetic
Crime - not genetic
People don't just commit crime for financial benefit like you said but that doesn't mean the only other possible motivation would be a natural inclination.
Personally I think it's lack of parental authority figures and therefore lack of any sort of control. More single parent families probably doesn't help either and teachers aren't even effective authority figures because they have zero power to do anything.
Poverty - not genetic
Crime - not genetic
People don't just commit crime for financial benefit like you said but that doesn't mean the only other possible motivation would be a natural inclination.
Personally I think it's lack of parental authority figures and therefore lack of any sort of control. More single parent families probably doesn't help either and teachers aren't even effective authority figures because they have zero power to do anything.
Coming from a single parent family has nothing to do with. I no loads of children who have been raised by a single parent that don't behave in this way and there are people out there with both parents that do. Its got nothing to do with the number of parents in the persons life, but the quality of the parenting.
(edited 12 years ago)
An important point not yet mentioned would have to be the definition of racist?
I'm happy to say black youths are more likely to be involved in unlawful activities, taking into account socio-economic status. Less likely to succeed in education or pursue a successful and respectable career. And are in general, less beneficial to society as a whole.
Yet I would not label myself as racist, since I'm not hate driven and statistics cannot define a single person. I've met black men who are more successful and respectable than myself.
I'm happy to say black youths are more likely to be involved in unlawful activities, taking into account socio-economic status. Less likely to succeed in education or pursue a successful and respectable career. And are in general, less beneficial to society as a whole.
Yet I would not label myself as racist, since I'm not hate driven and statistics cannot define a single person. I've met black men who are more successful and respectable than myself.
Original post by Aspudgun
An important point not yet mentioned would have to be the definition of racist?
I'm happy to say black youths are more likely to be involved in unlawful activities, taking into account socio-economic status. Less likely to succeed in education or pursue a successful and respectable career. And are in general, less beneficial to society as a whole.
Yet I would not label myself as racist, since I'm not hate driven and statistics cannot define a single person. I've met black men who are more successful and respectable than myself.
I'm happy to say black youths are more likely to be involved in unlawful activities, taking into account socio-economic status. Less likely to succeed in education or pursue a successful and respectable career. And are in general, less beneficial to society as a whole.
Yet I would not label myself as racist, since I'm not hate driven and statistics cannot define a single person. I've met black men who are more successful and respectable than myself.
thats not rascist in the slightest it gets dangerous when people use it to push agenda's. as i black man i agree with everything you wrote i hope to be one of those who is more succesful then u lol
nah get your money man
Original post by Jono404
Lets see, Croydon:
7.9% Black Caribbean
5.6% Black African
1.1% Other Black
=14.6%
Haringey:
8.3% Black Caribbean
9.1% Black African
1.3% Other Black
=18.7%
If you can find videos from these areas where less than 20% of the people are black I'll be very surprised. Anyone who denies there is a discrepancy is having a laugh.
I'm not going as far as to say these people are genetically predisposed to this or anything horrible like that, some of what I've read on FB has been horrible (someone said they want a button that will 'kill all the p**is'
) I just think something needs to be done about this gangsta culture bull****.
7.9% Black Caribbean
5.6% Black African
1.1% Other Black
=14.6%
Haringey:
8.3% Black Caribbean
9.1% Black African
1.3% Other Black
=18.7%
If you can find videos from these areas where less than 20% of the people are black I'll be very surprised. Anyone who denies there is a discrepancy is having a laugh.
I'm not going as far as to say these people are genetically predisposed to this or anything horrible like that, some of what I've read on FB has been horrible (someone said they want a button that will 'kill all the p**is'
) I just think something needs to be done about this gangsta culture bull****.Thanks for ignoring the 2nd part of my post... the discrepancy is that it's overwhelmingly people from poor socioeconomic backgrounds.
Wtf has 'gangsta culture' got to do with this? As far as I can tell that's about drugs, whores and money. What has that got to do with stealing trainers and setting buildings alight
Original post by Jono404
If we're seeing 'as many white looters as black' then there clearly is an issue - they make up 12% of the population and are making up 50% of the rioters, rather than the 12% they should do statistically if there were no link. I don't know why people don't understand this.
Primarily because the social makeup of those council estates closest to the flash points are mainly black and white. So why jsut single out black people ?That isnt rocket science. if your level if distaste for the lootings is based on race that - why not install a curfew on all whites and blacks in north and southeast london - that clearly woud drastically reduce the amounts of crimes committed.
Original post by miserlou
Come from a single parent family has nothing to do with. I no loads of children who have been raised by a single parent that don't behave in this way and there are people out there with both parents that do. Its got nothing to do with the number of parents in the persons life, but the quality of the parenting.
Well it does actually. Though this may not be the case all the time, it's definitely a contributing factor. Quality of parenting - good quality - will not always be the difference between a good child and a bad child. That's why children within the same family can turn out differently. Single parenthood, however, will lead to circumstantial consequences. For example, if one is a single parent from a poorer background, it is highly likely they will still be working by the time their child finishes school. Because they are from a poorer a background it is more likely they will attend a school in a certain area and 9 times out of 10 these types of schools provide a poor education. When that child has returned from this school, his parent will be at work leaving him to his own devices. If he is from a poorer background he is more likely to live in on a bad estate where bad **** happens. That means he's likely to start hanging around with the wrong kind of people. So on and so forth.
Lack of a father figure will make no difference to some boys but to others this will make all the difference. And that's got nothing to do with their mother's quality of parenting.
Original post by rlw31
Thanks for ignoring the 2nd part of my post... the discrepancy is that it's overwhelmingly people from poor socioeconomic backgrounds.
Wtf has 'gangsta culture' got to do with this? As far as I can tell that's about drugs, whores and money. What has that got to do with stealing trainers and setting buildings alight
Wtf has 'gangsta culture' got to do with this? As far as I can tell that's about drugs, whores and money. What has that got to do with stealing trainers and setting buildings alight
1) Disagree. Plenty of those youths were decked out in Airmax and carrying blackberrys. I know people with far less, including plenty on this forum who would never dream of committing crimes like these.
2)You don't see how a culture which places heavy emphasis on materialism, violence and street credibility could have anything to do with the looting of material goods?
Original post by Nick1sHere
This... The majority of people shown looting are black
Really? Like in Manchester, Liverpool?
Original post by Jono404
1) Disagree. Plenty of those youths were decked out in Airmax and carrying blackberrys. I know people with far less, including plenty on this forum who would never dream of committing crimes like these.
2)You don't see how a culture which places heavy emphasis on materialism, violence and street credibility could have anything to do with the looting of material goods?
2)You don't see how a culture which places heavy emphasis on materialism, violence and street credibility could have anything to do with the looting of material goods?
I'd agree with your gang culture theory as a general point, but not specifically with the looting of goods, as this doesn't really fall into 'gang' behaviour. Our society is generally materialistic in any case.
what i was questioning if it is scioeconomic do we now have to contend with a modern rich class
and i dont mean teh 2.5 million plus households i mean the people liek me who are safe financially.
everyone is agreeing the por are getting poorer
that girl was talking about corner shop people as the rich(BBC website)
has the country become so bad that if you arent on benefits or earning minimum wage are you rich
BUT
i hear there were "rich" people rioting
but its something i hear about getting the rich it seems weird.
it kinda reminds me of ideas of serfdom where it is truly far from that, yet economics says that the rich make from the poor
very interesting
and i dont mean teh 2.5 million plus households i mean the people liek me who are safe financially.
everyone is agreeing the por are getting poorer
that girl was talking about corner shop people as the rich(BBC website)
has the country become so bad that if you arent on benefits or earning minimum wage are you rich
BUT
i hear there were "rich" people rioting
but its something i hear about getting the rich it seems weird.
it kinda reminds me of ideas of serfdom where it is truly far from that, yet economics says that the rich make from the poor
very interesting
Original post by Jono404
1) Disagree. Plenty of those youths were decked out in Airmax and carrying blackberrys. I know people with far less, including plenty on this forum who would never dream of committing crimes like these.
2)You don't see how a culture which places heavy emphasis on materialism, violence and street credibility could have anything to do with the looting of material goods?
2)You don't see how a culture which places heavy emphasis on materialism, violence and street credibility could have anything to do with the looting of material goods?
1)It is possible to come from a poor socioeconomic background and still be able to afford a £15 a month blackberry or a Airmaxes that you can get for under £40. I know lots of people from that background would never think of doing most of the stuff that's been going on, but that doesn't mean that most of the people who are doing it don't come from that background.
2)Good point on the gangsta culture, but I wouldn't say materialism is something confined to that.
Original post by Jono404
1) Disagree. Plenty of those youths were decked out in Airmax and carrying blackberrys. I know people with far less, including plenty on this forum who would never dream of committing crimes like these.
2)You don't see how a culture which places heavy emphasis on materialism, violence and street credibility could have anything to do with the looting of material goods?
2)You don't see how a culture which places heavy emphasis on materialism, violence and street credibility could have anything to do with the looting of material goods?
agreed but i notice you talk about the problems which i dont knwo why anybody is denying but are so obvious what do you pose
its isnt the simple less immigration as a lot of those involved will be british born
i believe in giving police more power and i mean some serious power.
clamp down on black communties instead of giving more money
in the white communities maybe the same but its different because a white male is teh best thing to be in this country and they are still doing terrible things. maybe giving money to these countries.
those convicted lose benefits and must find work.
also our generation is very materalistic in social standing. people dont want to work as street cleaners anymore, or in post officers at 35. its the office job or nothing. we think, black and white or any other race(not all peoplewithin the race)
that the world owes as something
what the problem is now is the underling racial implications that will arise from this
It annoys me that people see these 'race and x' statistics and think that irrespective of socioeconomic scenarios, everyone of a certain ethnicity is more/less likely to do something. Quite simply, these statistics are inherently harmful and misleading, as the people who use them are making an appeal to authority and think they are unquestionably correct.
Do the ethnically British people in deprived communities succeed academically, avoid crime and contribute to society? Or do they suffer from the same problems as the similarly deprived communities in inner-city London? How is it not blindingly obvious that this is transgressive of ethnicity and is a spatially influenced problem? If one lives in deprived socioeconomic conditions in Glasgow, for example, they are highly likely to conform to a string of behavioural issues because the surrounding culture possesses those elements to a salient degree.
Step back from nationwide 'racial' statistics for a moment and look at the prospects of ethnically British people living across deprived parts of the country. Only a fool would say it's possible to predicate causality on incidental factors; being 'white' doesn't mean a thing when living in destitution in Glasgow, for example. Are these people equally likely to contribute to society as people in Surrey, where a propitious culture is salient? People don't do things because of their skin colour, they acquire and implement behaviours from their surroundings. Culture is self-perpetuating.
I appreciate it is an average, but when entire parts of cities and regions face systematic, perpetual deprivation, what is the point of ethnicity when there is an observable geographical distribution of deprivation and social problems across the country? How does systematic crime in inner-city London affect the 'black' family in Durham? They are not involved in that culture because they don't live there, yet somehow they are more likely to follow elements of that culture despite being nowhere near it?
Application of linear statistics in this way is useless when it comes to the complex social dynamics inherent to humans. It is worthless as an explanatory tool.
Judge on surroundings and not on skin colour.
Do the ethnically British people in deprived communities succeed academically, avoid crime and contribute to society? Or do they suffer from the same problems as the similarly deprived communities in inner-city London? How is it not blindingly obvious that this is transgressive of ethnicity and is a spatially influenced problem? If one lives in deprived socioeconomic conditions in Glasgow, for example, they are highly likely to conform to a string of behavioural issues because the surrounding culture possesses those elements to a salient degree.
Step back from nationwide 'racial' statistics for a moment and look at the prospects of ethnically British people living across deprived parts of the country. Only a fool would say it's possible to predicate causality on incidental factors; being 'white' doesn't mean a thing when living in destitution in Glasgow, for example. Are these people equally likely to contribute to society as people in Surrey, where a propitious culture is salient? People don't do things because of their skin colour, they acquire and implement behaviours from their surroundings. Culture is self-perpetuating.
I appreciate it is an average, but when entire parts of cities and regions face systematic, perpetual deprivation, what is the point of ethnicity when there is an observable geographical distribution of deprivation and social problems across the country? How does systematic crime in inner-city London affect the 'black' family in Durham? They are not involved in that culture because they don't live there, yet somehow they are more likely to follow elements of that culture despite being nowhere near it?
Application of linear statistics in this way is useless when it comes to the complex social dynamics inherent to humans. It is worthless as an explanatory tool.
Judge on surroundings and not on skin colour.
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