Approval for creationist school
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Original post by daisydaffodil
What's wrong with schools teaching both? Schools are meant to teach children science as we know it, and religion as a separate subject. I'm religious and I see no issue with children being taught both so that they can make a fully informed choice.
But this whole concept is wrong. There is no 'choice' to be made, just fact and fiction. When the Biblical creation story is taught it should be taught explicitly as allegorical. Likewise evolution should be taught explicitly as factual (in the scientific sense).
I'm with the guy from the Humanist foundation. I cannot believe that this school has got anywhere in its application and I sincerely hope it fails.
(edited 12 years ago)
After reading the article that school seems insane. It doesn't need to follow a curriculum and teachers don't need qualifications? What is the point of this school? Without providing some qualifications it's nothing more than a Sunday school.
Now, I'm no great lover of the current system but how can they get A levels without following the curriculum?
Unless it is just a primary school. In which case I don't see the same basic problem with the school. Beyond doing trained teachers a serious disservice.
As for the Creationism. Of course it shouldn't be taught. I went to a CofE school and although it pushed its ideas on us, it was never extreme and it wasn't making huge efforts to indoctrinate. But then it was mostly teaching 'harmless' stories and pleasant Christian values. If I ever had the gumption to question whether Noah was real or not, I'm sure I would have gotten an answer of "decide for yourself". So all in all teaching dopey children about the nativity story probably isn't going to do any harm. I find you can only appreciate Christ if you come to find him by yourself and that the worst these schools will do is create these fake Christians that have a vague notion that Jesus was top banana but then not doing anything about it.
Creationism, though, is teaching something that is clearly false and being taught for the sole purpose of setting up children to reinforce the brainwashing they want to give them. These people don't really want a balanced education they want to get in early and make children believe there is some controversy about the whole thing because otherwise you have a nation of children that just laugh at you. If you want to try and reach children with this nonsense then fine, but forcing them to believe it by giving it to them through a false authority is pretty disgusting.
You won't bother teaching them other controversies over Christianity will you? About how the Bible as we know it today arbitrarily leaves out certain books and gospels, how there is very little evidence Jesus existed or how all the little different schisms contradict each other so much that it shows a massive inconsistency in the entire religion. No. It will be 100% indoctrination.
Now, I'm no great lover of the current system but how can they get A levels without following the curriculum?
Unless it is just a primary school. In which case I don't see the same basic problem with the school. Beyond doing trained teachers a serious disservice.
As for the Creationism. Of course it shouldn't be taught. I went to a CofE school and although it pushed its ideas on us, it was never extreme and it wasn't making huge efforts to indoctrinate. But then it was mostly teaching 'harmless' stories and pleasant Christian values. If I ever had the gumption to question whether Noah was real or not, I'm sure I would have gotten an answer of "decide for yourself". So all in all teaching dopey children about the nativity story probably isn't going to do any harm. I find you can only appreciate Christ if you come to find him by yourself and that the worst these schools will do is create these fake Christians that have a vague notion that Jesus was top banana but then not doing anything about it.
Creationism, though, is teaching something that is clearly false and being taught for the sole purpose of setting up children to reinforce the brainwashing they want to give them. These people don't really want a balanced education they want to get in early and make children believe there is some controversy about the whole thing because otherwise you have a nation of children that just laugh at you. If you want to try and reach children with this nonsense then fine, but forcing them to believe it by giving it to them through a false authority is pretty disgusting.
You won't bother teaching them other controversies over Christianity will you? About how the Bible as we know it today arbitrarily leaves out certain books and gospels, how there is very little evidence Jesus existed or how all the little different schisms contradict each other so much that it shows a massive inconsistency in the entire religion. No. It will be 100% indoctrination.
(edited 12 years ago)
I can see this thread going bad very quickly.
Personally, i think that if it provides a good rounded education, as all schools SHOULD do, then there isn't a problem. There are schools in this country for almost all major religions and so this shouldn't be treated any differently.
Personally, i think that if it provides a good rounded education, as all schools SHOULD do, then there isn't a problem. There are schools in this country for almost all major religions and so this shouldn't be treated any differently.
I see no problem with it. If people don't like it then they don't need to send their children there. I expect that there will be inspections to make sure what their teaching is ok so let them open.What I cannot stand is people who don't allow people to have their own views. If you don't agree with the views of the school then don't send your kids there. Simple.
Original post by Bakmouth
Those are big words.
Are you saying that teaching Christianity is child abuse? How are children ever to know about Christianity if we are not permitted to teach biblical values?
Are you saying that teaching Christianity is child abuse? How are children ever to know about Christianity if we are not permitted to teach biblical values?
Child abuse is going a bit far but considering that it will have a severe impact on the childs future, it is certainly neglectful to send your children to one of these schools. Anyone educated in one of these institutions is going to have a sub standard education especially in the sciences. These schools are laughing stocks within the scientific community for their views on evolution and other issues. So anyone attending these schools can kiss goodbye to any chance of getting onto a decent science course.
Whats the point in this anyway? Faith schools are utterly useless, its perfectly possible to have your child educated in a normal school and retain their faith. Sending your children to a faith school just demonstrates you are willing to sabotage their future because of YOUR beliefs. That is the height of selfish behaviour
think1
I see no problem with it. If people don't like it then they don't need to send their children there. I expect that there will be inspections to make sure what their teaching is ok so let them open.What I cannot stand is people who don't allow people to have their own views. If you don't agree with the views of the school then don't send your kids there. Simple.
So you'd be happy for schools to open up which taught absolutely anything then?
(edited 12 years ago)
Original post by truechristian91
I can see this thread going bad very quickly.
Personally, i think that if it provides a good rounded education, as all schools SHOULD do, then there isn't a problem. There are schools in this country for almost all major religions and so this shouldn't be treated any differently.
Personally, i think that if it provides a good rounded education, as all schools SHOULD do, then there isn't a problem. There are schools in this country for almost all major religions and so this shouldn't be treated any differently.
But it's an educational establishment teaching something which is absolutely false. Does this mean nothing to you?
Personally think there is a lot of over-reacting going on.
"Creationism will not be taught in the sciences"
"evolution will be taught as a theory"... yes it is.
I think a much more pressing issue is the name of the school ... Everyday Champions Academy really :/
...."my child goes to the everyday champions academy, and yours?" lol
"Creationism will not be taught in the sciences"
"evolution will be taught as a theory"... yes it is.
I think a much more pressing issue is the name of the school ... Everyday Champions Academy really :/
...."my child goes to the everyday champions academy, and yours?" lol
because it is lies
next thread
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Original post by truechristian91
Original post by truechristian91
I can see this thread going bad very quickly.
Personally, i think that if it provides a good rounded education, as all schools SHOULD do, then there isn't a problem. There are schools in this country for almost all major religions and so this shouldn't be treated any differently.
Personally, i think that if it provides a good rounded education, as all schools SHOULD do, then there isn't a problem. There are schools in this country for almost all major religions and so this shouldn't be treated any differently.
There's a big difference between a racket like this run by dodgy evangelicals and a normal faith school which will teach proper science, not nonsense.
Teaching creationism to children, a theory with no evidential base, undermines everything else a child is taught at school. How can you tell them in English that they need to use quotes to back up their ideas, or that they need to do an experiment in Chemistry in order to demonstrate a reaction?
It's hypocritical to have one idea stand outside of this: you're basically presenting the children with the idea that they can make up their own baseless theories, which goes against the whole point of education.
It's hypocritical to have one idea stand outside of this: you're basically presenting the children with the idea that they can make up their own baseless theories, which goes against the whole point of education.
Original post by SpamBa
Teaching creationism to children, a theory with no evidential base, undermines everything else a child is taught at school. How can you tell them in English that they need to use quotes to back up their ideas, or that they need to do an experiment in Chemistry in order to demonstrate a reaction?
It's hypocritical to have one idea stand outside of this: you're basically presenting the children with the idea that they can make up their own baseless theories, which goes against the whole point of education.
It's hypocritical to have one idea stand outside of this: you're basically presenting the children with the idea that they can make up their own baseless theories, which goes against the whole point of education.
I think you're forgetting you can quote the Bible just as much as any other story book.
Original post by j.alexanderh
So you'd be happy for schools to open up which taught absolutely anything then?
No don't twist my words. Like I said there will be inspections. I am sure that they will probably have to teach evolution as well so I see no problem there. Creationism in my opinion is unlikely to cause any real harm. You may this agree but this whole 'religion brainwashes' argument is in my opinion an exaggeration of the impact of things such as teaching creationism etc... Can't be asked to go on as Im tired...
Original post by j.alexanderh
So you'd be happy for schools to open up which taught absolutely anything then?
I do think that a creationist school is a little far, even as a Christian. I would say however that that is your opinion and i hold mine and that shouldn't come into it when we talk of teaching children. I would say that if it taught according to the curriculum and simply showed creation as a theory along side evolution as a theory then there would be no issues.
Original post by j.alexanderh
But it's an educational establishment teaching something which is absolutely false. Does this mean nothing to you?
Original post by jameswhughes
There's a big difference between a racket like this run by dodgy evangelicals and a normal faith school which will teach proper science, not nonsense.
Those are very strong words, would you say the same for an Islamic or Jewish school? And proper science would say that creation is a valid theory along side evolution.
Original post by truechristian91
Original post by truechristian91
I do think that a creationist school is a little far, even as a Christian. I would say however that that is your opinion and i hold mine and that shouldn't come into it when we talk of teaching children. I would say that if it taught according to the curriculum and simply showed creation as a theory along side evolution as a theory then there would be no issues.
Those are very strong words, would you say the same for an Islamic or Jewish school? And proper science would say that creation is a valid theory along side evolution.
Those are very strong words, would you say the same for an Islamic or Jewish school? And proper science would say that creation is a valid theory along side evolution.
Yes, of course, if they plan to teach something equally ridiculous. How can creationism be 'proper' science? The world is not 6000 years old and evolution happened, it's a fact.
If we're teaching creationism in our biology classrooms, why not teach astrology in our physics classrooms? The problem is that we don't teach our children about the reason we treat our facts as facts. You can tell a child about electron shells without explaining the evidence from photoelectron spectroscopy. In fact, you have to do so. If we're going to teach things in this way, we need to make sure that what we're teaching is definitely right. Creationism is definitely wrong.
Teaching both ideas is thus misleading. Once you come up with sufficient justification for creationism, it will be considered. Until then, you've got no more right to teach it than I have to teach my theory that life on earth was created by a bored tortoise from the Andromeda galaxy.
Teaching both ideas is thus misleading. Once you come up with sufficient justification for creationism, it will be considered. Until then, you've got no more right to teach it than I have to teach my theory that life on earth was created by a bored tortoise from the Andromeda galaxy.
(edited 12 years ago)
Original post by truechristian91
I do think that a creationist school is a little far, even as a Christian. I would say however that that is your opinion and i hold mine and that shouldn't come into it when we talk of teaching children. I would say that if it taught according to the curriculum and simply showed creation as a theory along side evolution as a theory then there would be no issues.
You are quite right, opinions shouldn't come in to it when we are talking about science education. So we allow the facts to talk, and the fact is that evolution is true and creationism is false.
Those are very strong words, would you say the same for an Islamic or Jewish school?
Sorry, why wouldn't I?
And proper science would say that creation is a valid theory along side evolution.
Ahahahaha.
No. A quick browse through these: http://ncse.com/media/voices/science should change your mind.
Original post by think1
No don't twist my words. Like I said there will be inspections. I am sure that they will probably have to teach evolution as well so I see no problem there. Creationism in my opinion is unlikely to cause any real harm. You may this agree but this whole 'religion brainwashes' argument is in my opinion an exaggeration of the impact of things such as teaching creationism etc... Can't be asked to go on as Im tired...
The essence of your post was 'if the parents don't like the syllabus they shouldn't send their children there' which in principle allows for anything to be taught, no?
Regardless, if that school opens there will be several hundred young children virtually disbarred from studying biology in further education considering evolution is modern biology's major unifying principle, not to mention deeper issues about the application of reason and making evidence-based judgements. A person who is happy to let that happen is a selfish person.
(edited 12 years ago)
I'd consider it perfectly ok to teach creationism… in a religious studies class. Keep science in the science classroom, and religious mythologies and personal beliefs out of it. Simple as.
If 'intelligent design' (*cough* creationism *cough*) actually manages to produce something credible then of course it should be taught in science classrooms, but until that day, just no.
If 'intelligent design' (*cough* creationism *cough*) actually manages to produce something credible then of course it should be taught in science classrooms, but until that day, just no.
Original post by DYKWIA
What is wrong with teaching both?
Because one of them is provably wrong.
Would you also say 'what's wrong with teaching both' about the conflicting theories of 'the world leaders are unrelated' and 'the world leaders are secretly related lizard people planning to create a new world order'?
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