English Students Paying Uni Fees in Scotland Against Human Rights?
This thread comes after the news that a laywer is planning on sueing the Scottish Government on behalf of two English 6th form students on the grounds that the Scottish Government funds university fees for Scottish students and not English students and this was apparently against human rights.
My personal views are that Scotland does benefit from free university places but this is a Scottish policy for Scottish people. I do not agree that English (or Welsh, Irish or other nationalities for that matter) should benefit from our taxes. England benefits in other ways from taxpayers money (London 2012 etc) and so Scotland choses to spend its money on free higher education etc. It is unfortunate that English people do need to pay fees but they should campaign this out with the Westminister Government instead of sueing the Scottish Government for having a different and better policy. I think that if Scottish universities became free then not only would basically all English universites go out of business and that would not be good for England's economy or education system, Scotland would become bankrupt by paying out so much fees so it would be no good for our economy or education system and Scotland's universities would become impossible for Scottish people to get into as there are many more English people in Britian than Scots and A-levels are worth more than Highers. Basically I think that everyone should get free higher education and the Westminister government could carefully consider this instead of potraying the Scottish government as the bad ones.
Anyway, enough of my opinion, what are your views. . .
My personal views are that Scotland does benefit from free university places but this is a Scottish policy for Scottish people. I do not agree that English (or Welsh, Irish or other nationalities for that matter) should benefit from our taxes. England benefits in other ways from taxpayers money (London 2012 etc) and so Scotland choses to spend its money on free higher education etc. It is unfortunate that English people do need to pay fees but they should campaign this out with the Westminister Government instead of sueing the Scottish Government for having a different and better policy. I think that if Scottish universities became free then not only would basically all English universites go out of business and that would not be good for England's economy or education system, Scotland would become bankrupt by paying out so much fees so it would be no good for our economy or education system and Scotland's universities would become impossible for Scottish people to get into as there are many more English people in Britian than Scots and A-levels are worth more than Highers. Basically I think that everyone should get free higher education and the Westminister government could carefully consider this instead of potraying the Scottish government as the bad ones.
Anyway, enough of my opinion, what are your views. . .
Scroll to see replies
Original post by fwed1
My opinion is Scotland should let everyone in the UK and EU have it free. But England should keep fees as we can not afford to pay for everyone's.
But then everyone in the UK will apply to Scotland, then competition will be so rife it will be hard for Scots to get into uni in their own country.
Scottish students have to pay 9,000 pound fees in England. Which is why English students have to pay 9,000 fees in Scotland. Scotland quite rightly chooses how its annual budget is spent and through a democratic process the Scots have voted to allocate their budget towards education.
If English students want to pay no tuition fees in Scotland, then Scots should not have to pay tuition fees in England, see how simple it is.
Thats how it works.
If English students want to pay no tuition fees in Scotland, then Scots should not have to pay tuition fees in England, see how simple it is.
Thats how it works.
(edited 12 years ago)
It's got nothing to do with nationality, it's where you live. Which is also why this court action won't work.
It is an obscene disparity, however. Not only is it stupidly discriminatory, it also effectively bribes potential students in Scotland to stay in Scotland - as if this place wasn't parochial and inward-looking enough! I'm sure the Scottish Executive sees it in terms of retaining talent in Scotland, but for good pupils who may otherwise have looked to some of the terrific universities in England, this sort of cheap pay-off holds them back.
As for solving it by free education in England, Wales and Northern Ireland - not a chance. The government simply doesn't have the money. If you believe the Scottish Parliament can afford free tuition over a longer term, whilst not letting Scottish universities fall behind the rest of Britain, then it is only because the grant given to that institution is ridiculously inflated. I don't think the rest of the country like the idea of Alex Salmond and his clique gloating over free tuition in Scotland, when it is only the result of unfair state funding which everyone in Britain pays for.
It is an obscene disparity, however. Not only is it stupidly discriminatory, it also effectively bribes potential students in Scotland to stay in Scotland - as if this place wasn't parochial and inward-looking enough! I'm sure the Scottish Executive sees it in terms of retaining talent in Scotland, but for good pupils who may otherwise have looked to some of the terrific universities in England, this sort of cheap pay-off holds them back.
As for solving it by free education in England, Wales and Northern Ireland - not a chance. The government simply doesn't have the money. If you believe the Scottish Parliament can afford free tuition over a longer term, whilst not letting Scottish universities fall behind the rest of Britain, then it is only because the grant given to that institution is ridiculously inflated. I don't think the rest of the country like the idea of Alex Salmond and his clique gloating over free tuition in Scotland, when it is only the result of unfair state funding which everyone in Britain pays for.
Original post by Lewis :D
But then everyone in the UK will apply to Scotland, then competition will be so rife it will be hard for Scots to get into uni in their own country.
More people would apply but not everyone. People chose their uni based on course, reputation and employment prospects, not just cost.
I wouldn't see a problem with Scottish Unis taking preference of Scottish students over other countries'.
i love it. its fair.
but then of course it would be great if everyone just got it free in each of their own home countries. dont start picking on scotland cause we've got it good for now.
but then of course it would be great if everyone just got it free in each of their own home countries. dont start picking on scotland cause we've got it good for now.
I personally think it's a gross injustice, but short of revoking Scottish authority over education, or at least fees, or reversing devolution they unfortunately have every legal right to disciminate in this way.
Are English students from a country within the EU?
How much do EU students have to pay to go to Scottish universities?
This will be the bottom line argument used, all points relating to fairness/allocation of budgets/"you charge us, we charge you" etc are moot.
As for the comment about "if we let all English people in for free English universities would go out of business" (or words to that effect), are you kidding me?
How much do EU students have to pay to go to Scottish universities?
This will be the bottom line argument used, all points relating to fairness/allocation of budgets/"you charge us, we charge you" etc are moot.
As for the comment about "if we let all English people in for free English universities would go out of business" (or words to that effect), are you kidding me?
Original post by Aphotic Cosmos
I personally think it's a gross injustice, but short of revoking Scottish authority over education, or at least fees, or reversing devolution they unfortunately have every legal right to disciminate in this way.
It is not an injustice at all, The English charge Scottish students 9k a year if Scots choose to study in England, therefore the Scots are justified in charging English students 9k a year when they study in Scotland.
Original post by James1977
Are English students from a country within the EU?
How much do EU students have to pay to go to Scottish universities?
This will be the bottom line argument used, all points relating to fairness/allocation of budgets/"you charge us, we charge you" etc are moot.
As for the comment about "if we let all English people in for free English universities would go out of business" (or words to that effect), are you kidding me?
How much do EU students have to pay to go to Scottish universities?
This will be the bottom line argument used, all points relating to fairness/allocation of budgets/"you charge us, we charge you" etc are moot.
As for the comment about "if we let all English people in for free English universities would go out of business" (or words to that effect), are you kidding me?
I think EU students are charged the same fees that would pay at home.
Original post by Strathclyder
Scottish students have to pay 9,000 pound fees in England. Which is why English students have to pay 9,000 fees in Scotland. Scotland quite rightly chooses how its annual budget is spent and through a democratic process the Scots have voted to allocate their budget towards education.
If English students want to pay no tuition fees in Scotland, then Scots should not have to pay tuition fees in England, see how simple it is.
Thats how it works.
If English students want to pay no tuition fees in Scotland, then Scots should not have to pay tuition fees in England, see how simple it is.
Thats how it works.
When reading another thread on this issue a while ago I came across this information...
EU law states that students from within the EU attending a university in a different EU country should pay the same fees as the native students. English, Welsh and Northern Irish students all pay tuition fees in Scotland but no other European students are charged. All EU students pay the same as English students at English universities. Because Scotland is devolved it can decide on it's own higher education policy in respect to Scottish students and non-Scottish students within the UK. They have to offer free tuition to EU students but have decided not to offer it to students from the rest of the UK. English universities have the same policy across the board. It's not a case of 'you charge us £9k so we charge you £9k'.
I'm not saying whether this is morally right or wrong, but it could explain why some people get so annoyed about it all.
Original post by James1977
Are English students from a country within the EU?
How much do EU students have to pay to go to Scottish universities?
This will be the bottom line argument used, all points relating to fairness/allocation of budgets/"you charge us, we charge you" etc are moot.
As for the comment about "if we let all English people in for free English universities would go out of business" (or words to that effect), are you kidding me?
How much do EU students have to pay to go to Scottish universities?
This will be the bottom line argument used, all points relating to fairness/allocation of budgets/"you charge us, we charge you" etc are moot.
As for the comment about "if we let all English people in for free English universities would go out of business" (or words to that effect), are you kidding me?
Hmm I think English students are classed as home students, not EU students.
Original post by Lewis :D
But then everyone in the UK will apply to Scotland, then competition will be so rife it will be hard for Scots to get into uni in their own country.
I don't think that would happen, it is already much cheaper to study in Scotland, but there really isn't a mass exodus of English students.
Original post by Lightning_Strike
I don't think that would happen, it is already much cheaper to study in Scotland, but there really isn't a mass exodus of English students.
Thats because the English do not pay 9k fees yet, duuhhh
Original post by Lewis :D
But then everyone in the UK will apply to Scotland, then competition will be so rife it will be hard for Scots to get into uni in their own country.
There are three or four decent universities in Scotland. There isn't going to be a mass exodus away from some of the finest universities in the world here in England just because the Scottish alternatives are cheap, otherwise there would be hundreds of thousands of English students on the continent doing cheap English-language-taught courses.
Original post by Strathclyder
Thats because the English do not pay 9k fees yet, duuhhh
Yeah, but even now you could save almost £6000 over your degree, and neither me or my friends considered going to university in Scotland.
Even then, English awareness of Scottish universities is pretty limited to Edinburgh, St Andrews, Glasgow and possibly Stirling.
Original post by Aphotic Cosmos
There are three or four decent universities in Scotland. There isn't going to be a mass exodus away from some of the finest universities in the world here in England just because the Scottish alternatives are cheap, otherwise there would be hundreds of thousands of English students on the continent doing cheap English-language-taught courses.
I would say St Andrews, Edinburgh, Glasgow and Aberdeen are more than decent. Don't be so patronizing. Dundee and Strathclyde are also excellent universities.
Original post by fwed1
My opinion is Scotland should let everyone in the UK and EU have it free. But England should keep fees as we can not afford to pay for everyone's.
And in that case how do you propose English universites to stay in business if everyone is flocking to Scotland. England would lose out on alot of money, reputation and talent.
If Scotland charged everybody that would be unfair as Scotland has voted in an SNP Government which vows to fund our fees for as long as possible and it would mean thousands of talented prospective students having to forget the oppurtunity of free university that they were promised.
I can't study in England without paying through the roof. I dont have a hairy fit about it. Its they way things are. Two different Governments with two different policies.
England are too quick to put down Scotland and potray us as the bad guys. We have done nothing wrong. If anything its English politicians still refusing to give English people equal oppurtunities. Its the fault of the English Government not the Scottish Government.
Original post by Kerrias
Original post by Kerrias
And in that case how do you propose English universites to stay in business if everyone is flocking to Scotland. England would lose out on alot of money, reputation and talent.
If Scotland charged everybody that would be unfair as Scotland has voted in an SNP Government which vows to fund our fees for as long as possible and it would mean thousands of talented prospective students having to forget the oppurtunity of free university that they were promised.
I can't study in England without paying through the roof. I dont have a hairy fit about it. Its they way things are. Two different Governments with two different policies.
England are too quick to put down Scotland and potray us as the bad guys. We have done nothing wrong. If anything its English politicians still refusing to give English people equal oppurtunities. Its the fault of the English Government not the Scottish Government.
If Scotland charged everybody that would be unfair as Scotland has voted in an SNP Government which vows to fund our fees for as long as possible and it would mean thousands of talented prospective students having to forget the oppurtunity of free university that they were promised.
I can't study in England without paying through the roof. I dont have a hairy fit about it. Its they way things are. Two different Governments with two different policies.
England are too quick to put down Scotland and potray us as the bad guys. We have done nothing wrong. If anything its English politicians still refusing to give English people equal oppurtunities. Its the fault of the English Government not the Scottish Government.
What about the fact that EU students do not pay fees in Scotland, yet the rest of the UK does?
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