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Why People Hate Israel

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    With the recent turmoil in the Arab world, the increased threat of a new war between Israel and Hamas, and the upcoming UN vote on Palestinian sovereignty, I think it would be useful to examine what I think to be the reason for the growing animosity towards Israel in the West.

    A while back there was a thread that asked people whether Israel was the worst country in the world. A significant number of you said yes. Not, I assume, because it is, in fact, the worst country. What, with the likes of Somalia, Pakistan, North Korea, the DRC, Burma, Zimbabwe, and, some would argue, the US, China, or Russia, it is hard to believe that many would think that a small democratic, developed, besieged country of 7 million in the Eastern Mediterranean would actually be the worst country on the planet. People simply voted yes as a way to express their intense distaste, their hatred, for this peculiar country.

    Many explanations could be given for this hatred, some painting the opposition in a good light, some in a bad light. One could pin it on antisemitism, or on Israel's actions, on lack of understanding, or on an awakening towards Israel's true nature. I think, however, that there is a more root cause for the increasing hate, in the West particularly, of Israel.

    Israel is not too different from a country like Britain. It is democratic (politics in Gaza and the West Bank are controlled by Palestinians as per the Oslo Agreement), for the most part secular (although in certain areas, such as marriage, it has a ways to go), and quite liberal (it has a vibrant film, literature, and music scene, it is very open to homosexuality and alternative lifestyles, and has a thriving press and political system). It shares these characteristics with Britain, these characteristics are what make it a Western nation.

    Of course, there is a key difference between Israel and European countries - its history. Israel was founded in a hostile land, surrounded by hostile peoples, and has faced non-stop hostility since. No matter your position on the legitimacy or politics of the country, you have to admit that it has faced greater sustained violent opposition than any other nation on the planet. This violence, rooted in Arab hatred for the concept of Israel, explains the growing hatred in the West for the country.

    You see, Israel is hated because it represents what the West used to be. It is confident, assertive, and protective of its people, its culture, and its history. In Israel, people are not afraid to be proud of who they are and what they strive to represent. They are firm in their knowledge of what it means to be an Israeli, what it means to defend a homeland. They see the greatness in their country and they see the evil, they see its strength and they see its precariousness, they accept it for what it is but never stop trying to make it better. They are, in other words, deeply invested in the success of their nation.

    This purpose, this pride, this willingness to accept who you are and to do your best to preserve, protect, and improve your nation, is now frowned upon here in the West. We Westerners are no longer proud, we are guilty. The ideologies of cultural relativism and multiculturalism, an overtly critical understanding of our history, and the spectre of nationalism gone awry have robbed Europe of her ability to defend herself. Whether in the realm of the military, of politics, or of culture, many Europeans are no longer willing to be proud. Instead, they stand by and watch others claim the mantle of greatness they once held.

    It is this fundamental disconnect that fuels the hatred for Israel. It isn't antisemitism (that has always existed in Europe in some way) and it isn't really Israel's actions (Britain's draconian response to the IRA tells you all you need to know about what European countries would do if they faced terrorist threats in disputed territory). No, its about Israel representing both the West's past, and perhaps its future. It represents what the West lost and what it could find again. Israel defends itself - militarily, politically, and culturally. Many in the West have surrendered on all these fronts, and seeing this pocket of resistance, this beacon of possibility, this bulk-work against all which they wish to see destroyed, is an unacceptable state of affairs.

    You know, it's funny. Israel is much more complex, much more nuanced, much more multifaceted than many imagine. You can see it in her literature, in books about the lasting effects of the Holocaust, the evils of the occupation, and the psychological effect of constant war. You can see it in her cinema, in movies about the unequal treatment of Israeli Arabs, the disillusionment and cruelty of Israeli life, and doomed love stories about Palestinians and Israeli's. You can see it in the politics, on the floor of the Knesset were yelling and fighting is the norm, on the front page of Israeli newspapers, where the government is routinely castigated, and on the streets of Tel Aviv, where young Israeli's peacefully work towards the betterment of their country.

    Israel, in short, is not a monolith. Israel is instead enigma. It is a country whose unlikely birth, survival against impossible odds, stable political system, and astoundingly rapid development make it unlike any other on the planet. It is an anomaly and, to many Westerners, this makes it an object worthy of hate.

    Edit:
    Also, I know that many of you will feel that because this post isn't vehemently critical of Israel it warrants an automatic neg. I ask you, though, to please read it and respond to it with an open mind, because I think it is an issue worth discussing.

    Oh, who am I kidding, nobody reads this far...
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    With the recent turmoil in the Arab world, the increased threat of a new war between Israel and Hamas, and the upcoming UN vote on Palestinian sovereignty, I think it would be useful to examine what I think to be the reason for the growing animosity towards Israel in the West.

    A while back there was a thread that asked people whether Israel was the worst country in the world. A significant number of you said yes. Not, I assume, because it is, in fact, the worst country. What, with the likes of Somalia, Pakistan, North Korea, the DRC, Burma, Zimbabwe, and, some would argue, the US, China, or Russia, it is hard to believe that many would think that a small democratic, developed, besieged country of 7 million in the Eastern Mediterranean would actually be the worst country on the planet. People simply voted yes as a way to express their intense distaste, their hatred, for this peculiar country.

    Many explanations could be given for this hatred, some painting the opposition in a good light, some in a bad light. One could pin it on antisemitism, or on Israel's actions, on lack of understanding, or on an awakening towards Israel's true nature. I think, however, that there is a more root cause for the increasing hate, in the West particularly, of Israel.

    Israel is not too different from a country like Britain. It is democratic (politics in Gaza and the West Bank are controlled by Palestinians as per the Oslo Agreement), for the most part secular (although in certain areas, such as marriage, it has a ways to go), and quite liberal (it has a vibrant film, literature, and music scene, it is very open to homosexuality and alternative lifestyles, and has a thriving press and political system). It shares these characteristics with Britain, these characteristics are what make it a Western nation.

    Of course, there is a key difference between Israel and European countries - its history. Israel was founded in a hostile land, surrounded by hostile peoples, and has faced non-stop hostility since. No matter your position on the legitimacy or politics of the country, you have to admit that it has faced greater sustained violent opposition than any other nation on the planet. This violence, rooted in Arab hatred for the concept of Israel, explains the growing hatred in the West for the country.

    You see, Israel is hated because it represents what the West used to be. It is confident, assertive, and protective of its people, its culture, and its history. In Israel, people are not afraid to be proud of who they are and what they strive to represent. They are firm in their knowledge of what it means to be an Israeli, what it means to defend a homeland. They see the greatness in their country and they see the evil, they see its strength and they see its precariousness, they accept it for what it is but never stop trying to make it better. They are, in other words, deeply invested in the success of their nation.

    This purpose, this pride, this willingness to accept who you are and to do your best to preserve, protect, and improve your nation, is now frowned upon here in the West. We Westerners are no longer proud, we are guilty. The ideologies of cultural relativism and multiculturalism, an overtly critical understanding of our history, and the spectre of nationalism gone awry have robbed Europe of her ability to defend herself. Whether in the realm of the military, of politics, or of culture, many Europeans are no longer willing to be proud. Instead, they stand by and watch others claim the mantle of greatness they once held.

    It is this fundamental disconnect that fuels the hatred for Israel. It isn't antisemitism (that has always existed in Europe in some way) and it isn't really Israel's actions (Britain's draconian response to the IRA tells you all you need to know about what European countries would do if they faced terrorist threats in disputed territory). No, its about Israel representing both the West's past, and perhaps its future. It represents what the West lost and what it could find again. Israel defends itself - militarily, politically, and culturally. Many in the West have surrendered on all these fronts, and seeing this pocket of resistance, this beacon of possibility, this bulk-work against all which they wish to see destroyed, is an unacceptable state of affairs.

    You know, it's funny. Israel is much more complex, much more nuanced, much more multifaceted than many imagine. You can see it in her literature, in books about the lasting effects of the Holocaust, the evils of the occupation, and the psychological effect of constant war. You can see it in her cinema, in movies about the unequal treatment of Israeli Arabs, the disillusionment and cruelty of Israeli life, and doomed love stories about Palestinians and Israeli's. You can see it in the politics, on the floor of the Knesset were yelling and fighting is the norm, on the front page of Israeli newspapers, where the government is routinely castigated, and on the streets of Tel Aviv, where young Israeli's peacefully work towards the betterment of their country.

    Israel, in short, is not a monolith. Israel is instead enigma. It is a country whose unlikely birth, survival against impossible odds, stable political system, and astoundingly rapid development make it unlike any other on the planet. It is an anomaly and, to many Westerners, this makes it an object worthy of hate.

    Edit:
    Also, I know that many of you will feel that because this post isn't vehemently critical of Israel it warrants an automatic neg. I ask you, though, to please read it and respond to it with an open mind, because I think it is an issue worth discussing.

    Oh, who am I kidding, nobody reads this far...
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    With the recent turmoil in the Arab world, the increased threat of a new war between Israel and Hamas, and the upcoming UN vote on Palestinian sovereignty, I think it would be useful to examine what I think to be the reason for the growing animosity towards Israel in the West.

    A while back there was a thread that asked people whether Israel was the worst country in the world. A significant number of you said yes. Not, I assume, because it is, in fact, the worst country. What, with the likes of Somalia, Pakistan, North Korea, the DRC, Burma, Zimbabwe, and, some would argue, the US, China, or Russia, it is hard to believe that many would think that a small democratic, developed, besieged country of 7 million in the Eastern Mediterranean would actually be the worst country on the planet. People simply voted yes as a way to express their intense distaste, their hatred, for this peculiar country.

    Many explanations could be given for this hatred, some painting the opposition in a good light, some in a bad light. One could pin it on antisemitism, or on Israel's actions, on lack of understanding, or on an awakening towards Israel's true nature. I think, however, that there is a more root cause for the increasing hate, in the West particularly, of Israel.

    Israel is not too different from a country like Britain. It is democratic (politics in Gaza and the West Bank are controlled by Palestinians as per the Oslo Agreement), for the most part secular (although in certain areas, such as marriage, it has a ways to go), and quite liberal (it has a vibrant film, literature, and music scene, it is very open to homosexuality and alternative lifestyles, and has a thriving press and political system). It shares these characteristics with Britain, these characteristics are what make it a Western nation.

    Of course, there is a key difference between Israel and European countries - its history. Israel was founded in a hostile land, surrounded by hostile peoples, and has faced non-stop hostility since. No matter your position on the legitimacy or politics of the country, you have to admit that it has faced greater sustained violent opposition than any other nation on the planet. This violence, rooted in Arab hatred for the concept of Israel, explains the growing hatred in the West for the country.

    You see, Israel is hated because it represents what the West used to be. It is confident, assertive, and protective of its people, its culture, and its history. In Israel, people are not afraid to be proud of who they are and what they strive to represent. They are firm in their knowledge of what it means to be an Israeli, what it means to defend a homeland. They see the greatness in their country and they see the evil, they see its strength and they see its precariousness, they accept it for what it is but never stop trying to make it better. They are, in other words, deeply invested in the success of their nation.

    This purpose, this pride, this willingness to accept who you are and to do your best to preserve, protect, and improve your nation, is now frowned upon here in the West. We Westerners are no longer proud, we are guilty. The ideologies of cultural relativism and multiculturalism, an overtly critical understanding of our history, and the spectre of nationalism gone awry have robbed Europe of her ability to defend herself. Whether in the realm of the military, of politics, or of culture, many Europeans are no longer willing to be proud. Instead, they stand by and watch others claim the mantle of greatness they once held.

    It is this fundamental disconnect that fuels the hatred for Israel. It isn't antisemitism (that has always existed in Europe in some way) and it isn't really Israel's actions (Britain's draconian response to the IRA tells you all you need to know about what European countries would do if they faced terrorist threats in disputed territory). No, its about Israel representing both the West's past, and perhaps its future. It represents what the West lost and what it could find again. Israel defends itself - militarily, politically, and culturally. Many in the West have surrendered on all these fronts, and seeing this pocket of resistance, this beacon of possibility, this bulk-work against all which they wish to see destroyed, is an unacceptable state of affairs.

    You know, it's funny. Israel is much more complex, much more nuanced, much more multifaceted than many imagine. You can see it in her literature, in books about the lasting effects of the Holocaust, the evils of the occupation, and the psychological effect of constant war. You can see it in her cinema, in movies about the unequal treatment of Israeli Arabs, the disillusionment and cruelty of Israeli life, and doomed love stories about Palestinians and Israeli's. You can see it in the politics, on the floor of the Knesset were yelling and fighting is the norm, on the front page of Israeli newspapers, where the government is routinely castigated, and on the streets of Tel Aviv, where young Israeli's peacefully work towards the betterment of their country.

    Israel, in short, is not a monolith. Israel is instead enigma. It is a country whose unlikely birth, survival against impossible odds, stable political system, and astoundingly rapid development make it unlike any other on the planet. It is an anomaly and, to many Westerners, this makes it an object worthy of hate.

    Edit:
    Also, I know that many of you will feel that because this post isn't vehemently critical of Israel it warrants an automatic neg. I ask you, though, to please read it and respond to it with an open mind, because I think it is an issue worth discussing.

    Oh, who am I kidding, nobody reads this far...
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    With the recent turmoil in the Arab world, the increased threat of a new war between Israel and Hamas, and the upcoming UN vote on Palestinian sovereignty, I think it would be useful to examine what I think to be the reason for the growing animosity towards Israel in the West.

    A while back there was a thread that asked people whether Israel was the worst country in the world. A significant number of you said yes. Not, I assume, because it is, in fact, the worst country. What, with the likes of Somalia, Pakistan, North Korea, the DRC, Burma, Zimbabwe, and, some would argue, the US, China, or Russia, it is hard to believe that many would think that a small democratic, developed, besieged country of 7 million in the Eastern Mediterranean would actually be the worst country on the planet. People simply voted yes as a way to express their intense distaste, their hatred, for this peculiar country.

    Many explanations could be given for this hatred, some painting the opposition in a good light, some in a bad light. One could pin it on antisemitism, or on Israel's actions, on lack of understanding, or on an awakening towards Israel's true nature. I think, however, that there is a more root cause for the increasing hate, in the West particularly, of Israel.

    Israel is not too different from a country like Britain. It is democratic (politics in Gaza and the West Bank are controlled by Palestinians as per the Oslo Agreement), for the most part secular (although in certain areas, such as marriage, it has a ways to go), and quite liberal (it has a vibrant film, literature, and music scene, it is very open to homosexuality and alternative lifestyles, and has a thriving press and political system). It shares these characteristics with Britain, these characteristics are what make it a Western nation.

    Of course, there is a key difference between Israel and European countries - its history. Israel was founded in a hostile land, surrounded by hostile peoples, and has faced non-stop hostility since. No matter your position on the legitimacy or politics of the country, you have to admit that it has faced greater sustained violent opposition than any other nation on the planet. This violence, rooted in Arab hatred for the concept of Israel, explains the growing hatred in the West for the country.

    You see, Israel is hated because it represents what the West used to be. It is confident, assertive, and protective of its people, its culture, and its history. In Israel, people are not afraid to be proud of who they are and what they strive to represent. They are firm in their knowledge of what it means to be an Israeli, what it means to defend a homeland. They see the greatness in their country and they see the evil, they see its strength and they see its precariousness, they accept it for what it is but never stop trying to make it better. They are, in other words, deeply invested in the success of their nation.

    This purpose, this pride, this willingness to accept who you are and to do your best to preserve, protect, and improve your nation, is now frowned upon here in the West. We Westerners are no longer proud, we are guilty. The ideologies of cultural relativism and multiculturalism, an overtly critical understanding of our history, and the spectre of nationalism gone awry have robbed Europe of her ability to defend herself. Whether in the realm of the military, of politics, or of culture, many Europeans are no longer willing to be proud. Instead, they stand by and watch others claim the mantle of greatness they once held.

    It is this fundamental disconnect that fuels the hatred for Israel. It isn't antisemitism (that has always existed in Europe in some way) and it isn't really Israel's actions (Britain's draconian response to the IRA tells you all you need to know about what European countries would do if they faced terrorist threats in disputed territory). No, its about Israel representing both the West's past, and perhaps its future. It represents what the West lost and what it could find again. Israel defends itself - militarily, politically, and culturally. Many in the West have surrendered on all these fronts, and seeing this pocket of resistance, this beacon of possibility, this bulk-work against all which they wish to see destroyed, is an unacceptable state of affairs.

    You know, it's funny. Israel is much more complex, much more nuanced, much more multifaceted than many imagine. You can see it in her literature, in books about the lasting effects of the Holocaust, the evils of the occupation, and the psychological effect of constant war. You can see it in her cinema, in movies about the unequal treatment of Israeli Arabs, the disillusionment and cruelty of Israeli life, and doomed love stories about Palestinians and Israeli's. You can see it in the politics, on the floor of the Knesset were yelling and fighting is the norm, on the front page of Israeli newspapers, where the government is routinely castigated, and on the streets of Tel Aviv, where young Israeli's peacefully work towards the betterment of their country.

    Israel, in short, is not a monolith. Israel is instead enigma. It is a country whose unlikely birth, survival against impossible odds, stable political system, and astoundingly rapid development make it unlike any other on the planet. It is an anomaly and, to many Westerners, this makes it an object worthy of hate.

    Edit:
    Also, I know that many of you will feel that because this post isn't vehemently critical of Israel it warrants an automatic neg. I ask you, though, to please read it and respond to it with an open mind, because I think it is an issue worth discussing.

    Oh, who am I kidding, nobody reads this far...
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    Hmm intriguing argument. I'll be interested in the responses and hope we don't see 10 thousand negs 5000 pos reps and only a single page of debate.

    As for the argument itself, I don't feel I know enough to say anything critical or positive but I feel it has something going for it
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    (Original post by Wucker)
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    What bull****. So you are basically saying that any form of expression against Israel is illegitimate in western world? All these traits are also found in PAKISTAN where despite so much killings a vibrant media,judiciary and film industry exists but no it never gets mentioned because it doesn't represent Western civilization.
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    (Original post by Arsenal4lif)
    What bull****. So you are basically saying that any form of expression against Israel is illegitimate in western world? All these traits are also found in PAKISTAN where despite so much killings a vibrant media,judiciary and film industry exists.
    Pakistans Judiciary is based on the British system, in fact a person with an LLB from a British University is able to practice law in Pakistan.

    And Pakistans film industry is one of the worlds worst.
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    Not everyone hates Israel, just a select few indiviudals, just like a few people from Israel will dislike the UK. Everyone's to their own taste.
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    (Original post by Strathclyder)
    Pakistans Judiciary is based on the British system, in fact a person with an LLB from a British University is able to practice law in Pakistan.

    And Pakistans film industry is one of the worlds worst.
    I was talking about the recent lawyer's protest movement which eventually overthrew President Musharaf
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    (Original post by Arsenal4lif)
    What bull****. So you are basically saying that any form of expression against Israel is illegitimate in western world? All these traits are also found in PAKISTAN where despite so much killings a vibrant media,judiciary and film industry exists.
    I am talking about hatred, intense dislike, of Israel, not criticism. And yes, the hatred is illegitimate if you find Western self-hate to be an issue which, obviously, not everybody does.

    It really, truly saddens me to see you compare the culture of Israel to the culture of Pakistan. You only need to look at the Wikipedia pages for the respective industries of each country to see the difference. It is to be expected, after all, because Israel is a much more open society.

    Look, I get it, you hate Israel. That doesn't mean it can't have a more active arts scene than other countries. You can accept that, and still hate Israel. These things aren't mutually exclusive.
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    I don't hate Israel because it's "confident, assertive, and protective of its people, its culture, and its history" I dislike Israel because it systematically displaced, repressed and brutalized an entire people. I fully support and encourage it to fulfil whatever it strives for so long as it doesn't harm an entire population in the process.
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    (Original post by jimmylovestoshimmy)
    Not everyone hates Israel, just a select few indiviudals, just like a few people from Israel will dislike the UK. Everyone's to their own taste.
    Well, if you take the poll I mentioned, for example, it would be safe to infer that, on TSR at least, a good minority, if not a majority, of people intensely dislike or, in many cases, hate, Israel.

    I think you will find it hard, on the other hand, to point to examples of Israeli's voicing their hatred for the United Kingdom.
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    (Original post by Wucker)
    I am talking about hatred, intense dislike, of Israel, not criticism. And yes, the hatred is illegitimate if you find Western self-hate to be an issue which, obviously, not everybody does.

    It really, truly saddens me to see you compare the culture of Israel to the culture of Pakistan. You only need to look at the Wikipedia pages for the respective industries of each country to see the difference. It is to be expected, after all, because Israel is a much more open society.

    Look, I get it, you hate Israel. That doesn't mean it can't have a more active arts scene than other countries. You can accept that, and still hate Israel. These things aren't mutually exclusive.
    Only Western region of Israel is secular and liberal in nature. Just go to a city like Tel Aviv and then go to Jerusalem to know the difference. Yes many Jews are open and secular but you will find also MANY ULTRA orthodox jews who live on state welfare ,have many children and don't even do jobs.I don't hate Israel. Never. I only have issues with their foreign policy. In fact if it hadn't used such a aggressive policy when dealing with neighbors it could have been a beacon of hope for freedom-loving Arabs.
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    Too long didn't read.

    Can someone condense that into a few sentences?
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    (Original post by 2ndClass)
    I don't hate Israel because it's "confident, assertive, and protective of its people, its culture, and its history" I dislike Israel because it systematically displaced, repressed and brutalized an entire people. I fully support and encourage it to fulfil whatever it strives for so long as it doesn't harm an entire population in the process.
    I am curious, do you dislike Jordan, Syria, and Lebanon more because they actually forced Palestinians to stay in wretched refugee camps?

    Also, what do you think of the fact that Arabs living in Israel have more rights than Arabs in Arab countries? Do you acknowledge the fact that the political system of Gaza and the West Bank are controlled by Palestinians, and that security is to a large extent controlled by them as well?

    Finally, if Palestine were an independent country do you honestly believe that it would be a liberal, democratic nation the respected the rights of its people?
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    (Original post by Arsenal4lif)
    Only Western region of Israel is secular and liberal in nature. Just go to a city like Tel Aviv and then go to Jerusalem to know the difference. Yes many Jews are open and secular but you will find also MANY ULTRA orthodox jews who live on state welfare ,have many children and don't even do jobs.
    A society is secular and liberal not because all of its people are secular and liberal but because it allows all religious and ideas to flourish openly. This occurs in Israel to a greater extent than anywhere in the Arab world.

    And yes, I think that ultra-orthodox Jews are, for a variety of reasons (they take up state funding, don't fight in the military, don't work, are incredibly conservative, settle in the occupied territories, breed like rabbits, and demand religious law) are a very real threat to the state of Israel.
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    Israel was supposed to be a light unto the nations. But I think that's the Elders of Zion talking.
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    (Original post by Wucker)
    I am curious, do you dislike Jordan, Syria, and Lebanon more because they actually forced Palestinians to stay in wretched refugee camps?

    Also, what do you think of the fact that Arabs living in Israel have more rights than Arabs in Arab countries? Do you acknowledge the fact that the political system of Gaza and the West Bank are controlled by Palestinians, and that security is to a large extent controlled by them as well?

    Finally, if Palestine were an independent country do you honestly believe that it would be a liberal, democratic nation the respected the rights of its people?
    You are generalizing. 70 % of Jordanian Arabs are Palestinians and many Palestinians live happily in Saudi ,UAE,Qatar and Lebanon . Only some of them live in refugee camps.
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    (Original post by Wucker)
    I am curious, do you dislike Jordan, Syria, and Lebanon more because they actually forced Palestinians to stay in wretched refugee camps?
    Absolutely, but Israel remains the cause of this and Palestinians view them as the main perpetrators. And at the same time if those countries absorb the Palestinians they're essentially alleviating Israel of any responsibility and take away the the returnee problem from their mind.

    Also, what do you think of the fact that Arabs living in Israel have more rights than Arabs in Arab countries?
    Which Arabs? Israeli Arabs or Palestinians?

    Do you acknowledge the fact that the political system of Gaza and the West Bank are controlled by Palestinians, and that security is to a large extent controlled by them as well?
    There's petty autonomy and there's sovereignty. Israel still decides on the most important factor.

    Finally, if Palestine were an independent country do you honestly believe that it would be a liberal, democratic nation the respected the rights of its people?
    I want Palestine to be what the Palestinians want it to be not what you and I want.
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    (Original post by Arsenal4lif)
    You are generalizing. 70 % of Jordanian Arabs are Palestinians and many Palestinians live happily in Saudi ,UAE,Qatar and Lebanon . Only some of them live in refugee camps.
    Do Arabs have more rights in Israel or in the countries that you listed?

    Even if you dislike Israel's policies towards the West Bank, please be honest in your answer.

    (Original post by 2ndClass)
    Absolutely, but Israel remains the cause of this and Palestinians view them as the main perpetrators.



    Which Arabs? Israeli Arabs or Palestinians?



    There's petty autonomy and there's sovereignty. Israel still decides on the most important factor.



    I want Palestine to be what the Palestinians want it to be not what you and I want.
    So Israel caused the conflict by agreeing to the UN partition in 1948 and being successful in its defense when it was attacked on all sides by Arab nations who refused to accept a peaceful resolution? Ok...

    Israeli Arabs.

    Israel controls the external defense of the West Bank, and sends in patrols when it feels the need to. It also collects taxes for the PA because it has the infrastructure in place to do so. The PA, however, runs the government, holds elections (although not anymore, ha), and writes its own laws. The Gaza Strip, on the other hands, is completely controlled by Hamas, not Israel or the PA. If Israel really controlled the PA, then surely it would have prevented them from making peace with Hamas and proposing unilateral recognition of Gaza instead of direct negotiations? I find it hard to understand why you wouldn't acknowledge the existence and implementation of the Oslo accords. I mean, its pretty universally accepted.

    This doesn't answer my question. Will the Palestinian state really represent the wishes of the Palestinian people, or will be be another dictatorship? I think you only need to look at the actions of both the PA and of Hamas to see the answer.
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    Israel doesn't exist m8, its called Palestine
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    (Original post by h-star)
    Israel doesn't exist m8, its called Palestine
    Many people wish that to be the case, yes.

    Its ironic you would mention it, though, because, funnily enough, a state called "Palestine" has never actually existed, while a state called Israel does exist.

    Sorry about that, I guess.
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    (Original post by h-star)
    Israel doesn't exist m8, its called Palestine
    Many people wish that to be the case, yes.

    Its ironic you would mention it, though, because, funnily enough, a state called "Palestine" has never actually existed, while a state called Israel does exist.

    Sorry about that, I guess.
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    I think some people hate Israel because they think that they are treating Palestine unfairly. I think that is all there is to it tbh. I'm also fairly sure that some people hate Israel because it is the cool thing to do.

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Updated: September 24, 2011
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