[Martyn*]

What is with Gaddafi and the raised clenched fist thing he does on camera? Does he think he is a Communist or a Black Panther or something? Very odd for a man who reads books on astrology and the Kabalah. Or not?

He does the two clenched-fists, as well. Only a Freemason would truly recognise the hand signals.

We see the clenched fist in the form of a statue in his compound in Tripoli.

Freemason or no freemason, was/is Gaddafi a Communist?

[Aj12]

You look into things far far to much, the fist was there because it was crushing an American plane, a symbol of defiance

[Darth Stewie]

I seriously doubt he considers himself a communist, he most likely uses it as an expression of solidarity or strength

[Captain Hindsight]

communist - debateable

What he is though is a tyrant dictator i think it is fair to say

[Martyn*]

(Original post by Darth Stewie)


I seriously doubt he considers himself a communist, he most likely uses it as an expression of solidarity or strength

But that's just what the Communists symbolically used the fist for, isn't it?

[NapoleonDynamite]

(Original post by Martyn*)
But that's just what the Communists symbolically used the fist for, isn't it?

Maybe that's the reason he uses it, but without being a Communist. It's just something he and Communists share.

[Martyn*]

(Original post by Aj12)
You look into things far far to much, the fist was there because it was crushing an American plane, a symbol of defiance

But the Communit fist is a symbol of defiance as well. I don't look into things too much. I believe that symbols are found everywhere and all of them are connected in some way or other. Europe for example was imaged as the goddess Europa in mediavl tiems, Charlemange and all that. The EU buildings today are called, or are to be called "Europa", according to Von Rompuy.

[michaelhaych]

Gaddafi's ideology was largely based on Nasserism, blending Arab nationalism, aspects of the welfare state, and what Gaddafi termed "popular democracy". He called this system "Islamic socialism", as he disfavored the atheistic quality of communism. While he permitted private control over small companies, the government controlled the larger ones. Welfare, "liberation", and education was emphasized.

[Darth Stewie]

(Original post by Martyn*)
But that's just what the Communists symbolically used the fist for, isn't it?

pretty much, but its also used by anarchists and in the past by military groups such as the International Brigades or the JDL. It seems to have become a symbol for communism in the world but its just as much a symbol for defiance and resistance of all kinds, which I'm guessing Gaddafi used it to symbolize

[Martyn*]

(Original post by michaelhaych)
Gaddafi's ideology was largely based on Nasserism, blending Arab nationalism, aspects of the welfare state, and what Gaddafi termed "popular democracy". He called this system "Islamic socialism", as he disfavored the atheistic quality of communism. While he permitted private control over small companies, the government controlled the larger ones. Welfare, "liberation", and education was emphasized.

This might explain how socialists have come to use the clenched fist as well. It's a bizaare world we live in.

[michaelhaych]

(Original post by Martyn*)
This might explain how socialists have come to use the clenched fist as well. It's a bizaare world we live in.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raised_fist

"The raised fist logo may represent unity or solidarity, generally with oppressed peoples. This symbolism may have sprung from usage by trade unions."

"The raised fist is a salute and logo most often used by left-wing activists, such as: Marxists, anarchists, socialists, communists, pacifists, trade unionists, and black nationalists."

"The raised fist is usually regarded as an expression of solidarity, strength or defiance."

Defiance isn't it's only meaning.

[luckyclick]

The communist government of my country(Vietnam) was among the first to announce relationship with G regime.Gaddafi himself always show sympathies to communist.However Libya under G regime wasn't a "pure" communist nation.His Green Book is a mix of Marxism,capitalist,nationalist and Muslim.

[SciFiRory]

only if you think Communism is something completely different to what it actually is...

[SciFiRory]

(Original post by luckyclick)
The communist government of my country(Vietnam) was among the first to announce relationship with G regime.Gaddafi himself always show sympathies to communist.However Libya under G regime wasn't a "pure" communist nation.His Green Book is a mix of Marxism,capitalist,nationalist and Muslim.

Communism is defined by having a classless stateless society, does Vietnam have a classless stateless society?

[Pax Amerifauna]

The same clenched fist symbol is also on Islamic Awakening, an English website for Islamic terrorists and wannabe terrorists. I think it's just a universal sign of strength.

[Abiraleft]

It depends on what you mean by a communist. He does call himself a socialist, as far as I know. I doubt most socialist/communist groups would identify/liken themselves with him, though.

[Barden]

(Original post by SciFiBoy)
Communism is defined by having a classless stateless society, does Vietnam have a classless stateless society?

Actually that's anarchism.

It is ruled by a communist party, ergo the poster was correct in referring to Vietnam's 'communist government'. Whether or not the state is actually, in practice, communist or not, is neither here nor there really...

So stop nit-picking

[luckyclick]

(Original post by SciFiBoy)
Communism is defined by having a classless stateless society, does Vietnam have a classless stateless society?

The polices and government officials always abuse their powers.My people still struggle for their basic human rights.I'm truly jealous with Libyans;classless,stateless?It's just in theory and be used as a mean for propaganda.

[SciFiRory]

(Original post by Barden)
Actually that's anarchism.

It is ruled by a communist party, ergo the poster was correct in referring to Vietnam's 'communist government'. Whether or not the state is actually, in practice, communist or not, is neither here nor there really...

So stop nit-picking

it's not nit picking, it's making sure people arent talking ****e about these things.

you cannot be Communist if you still have a state...it's the very definition of the concept.

it's also obvious that a nation like Vietnam is not classless nor is it stateless, therefore to state it is "communist" is demonstrably false.

[Barden]

(Original post by SciFiBoy)
it's not nit picking, it's making sure people arent talking ****e about these things.

you cannot be Communist if you still have a state...it's the very definition of the concept.

it's also obvious that a nation like Vietnam is not classless nor is it stateless, therefore to state it is "communist" is demonstrably false.

But he never said that the state was communist, he said the government - i.e. the ruling party given it's a one-party state - is communist, which it is: it's the communist party...


That's like saying the UK isn't a democracy because children aren't allowed to vote, or that that France isn't secular because people are still allowed to go to church...