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NHS Graduate Scheme 2012

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    I don't have a lot of free time so I thought it best to complete this all today. Any free time I may have in future will be most welcome for other apps.
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    (Original post by laura130490)
    Ahh okay, this is the first public sector scheme I've applied to. I've only ever applied to private companies like Pfizer and GSK and the tests are usually done in stages there.

    I'm just curious which schemes people are applying to and what are their backgrounds in terms of degree and work experience etc? I'll share first

    I'm applying to the health informatics scheme on the recommendation of my managers and the consultant I worked for during my placement year as a trainee biomedical scientist. I set up a few databases containing patient information and things for them and trained them on how to use them, so they said I should go into health informatics. I don't really have any other IT experience (which I'm worried about), however I do have an IT GCSE and A level grade B in both. I've been volunteering in the NHS since August, but it's just helping out patients and things, so not sure they would be that impressed with that.

    Just worried my lack of business knowledge and IT experience will hinder my application.
    Hi,

    I'm currently on my 1st placement in Health Informatics on the scheme. I didn't have strong IT background as well, but that didn't affect my application. The nature of the scheme is that it's all a learning process, so you will have the opportunity to pick up the skills you need for the job. I say don't worry about the technicalities of the specialism. You just need to show passion for the job, and your potential.

    Hope that is reassuring!
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    Hey guys. I was just looking on the graduate website and noticed the scheme says it pays a salary of £22,222. Is this for their London roles as well because that figure seems a little modest considering expenses, even with the public sector cuts and pay freezes.
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    (Original post by Regent)
    Hey guys. I was just looking on the graduate website and noticed the scheme says it pays a salary of £22,222. Is this for their London roles as well because that figure seems a little modest considering expenses, even with the public sector cuts and pay freezes.
    I think that is across the board, relatively poor salary.
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    (Original post by Tensa_Zangetsu)
    I think that is across the board, relatively poor salary.
    £22,222 would reasonable in regional locations. I've heard the Big 4 pay sub £20k in some regional office. In London, however that is a pauper's salary. I don't think I could physically afford to pay back all my loans plus London rent with that salary.
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    (Original post by Regent)
    £22,222 would reasonable in regional locations. I've heard the Big 4 pay sub £20k in some regional office. In London, however that is a pauper's salary. I don't think I could physically afford to pay back all my loans plus London rent with that salary.
    My friend gets £27,000 PA and he works for PWC in Manchester. I myself, work part-time and earn more then £22,222. Honestly, once you factor in tax, rent, council tax, food, car, living expenses etc it really isn't a lot, in my opinion anyway!
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    (Original post by Tensa_Zangetsu)
    My friend gets £27,000 PA and he works for PWC in Manchester. I myself, work part-time and earn more then £22,222. Honestly, once you factor in tax, rent, council tax, food, car, living expenses etc it really isn't a lot, in my opinion anyway!
    Lol. That says it all! Is you're friend a first year because adjusted for purchasing power £27,000 is a lot up north for a starting salary. I haven't done the tests yet but with all the other graduate schemes out there (and given how competitive the NHS scheme is) I might not bother.
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    (Original post by Regent)
    Lol. That says it all! Is you're friend a first year because adjusted for purchasing power £27,000 is a lot up north for a starting salary. I haven't done the tests yet but with all the other graduate schemes out there (and given how competitive the NHS scheme is) I might not bother.

    Yep, first year. Tbh he is earning just above average for a grad scheme, but yeah, it's alright for up north. NHS scheme is a back-up for me, and that's if I get placed up north, preferably in Manchester. If I got placed in London I'd have to rent a box room in a shared house- NO THANK-YOU! Lol.
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    (Original post by Regent)
    Lol. That says it all! Is you're friend a first year because adjusted for purchasing power £27,000 is a lot up north for a starting salary. I haven't done the tests yet but with all the other graduate schemes out there (and given how competitive the NHS scheme is) I might not bother.
    And yes, I did the tests!
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    The salary is a bit low compared to other schemes because they pay for education stuff as well; the scheme comes with master's qualifications for the various specialities and the finance qualifications (CIMA or ACCA) plus a post grad certificate.
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    There is the school of thought that paying less gets you a more suitable calibre of person. At the end of the day, the NHS is public sector and works best in a highly collaborative manner, with the best outcomes delivered from inner passion of the employees. Paying a below par salary deters individuals motivated by money, status and competitive drive, all of which are very unhelpful motivations for those working in the NHS.

    This is the same arguement being put forward to freeze, if not cut, doctors' salaries.
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    (Original post by Rat_Bag)
    There is the school of thought that paying less gets you a more suitable calibre of person. At the end of the day, the NHS is public sector and works best in a highly collaborative manner, with the best outcomes delivered from inner passion of the employees. Paying a below par salary deters individuals motivated by money, status and competitive drive, all of which are very unhelpful motivations for those working in the NHS.

    This is the same arguement being put forward to freeze, if not cut, doctors' salaries.
    I work closely with the NHS, I recruit HCAs, nurses and doctors and let me tell you one thing, they are all competitive and ambitious. Also, surely we are all motivated by money, not completely but it does play a big part in what career we choose. I can see your point and respect your opinion, I just disagree.
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    (Original post by imanie)
    The salary is a bit low compared to other schemes because they pay for education stuff as well; the scheme comes with master's qualifications for the various specialities and the finance qualifications (CIMA or ACCA) plus a post grad certificate.
    Paying for an accounting qual is standard with essentially all grad schemes. I have yet to find one that doesn't pay for it.
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    Sorry to sound so negative everyone! I've heard great things about the scheme so please do not let my moaning put any of you off!
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    (Original post by Tensa_Zangetsu)
    I work closely with the NHS, I recruit HCAs, nurses and doctors and let me tell you one thing, they are all competitive and ambitious.
    Well am not sure about HCAs, but I agree there is a growing careerism within the medical and nursing profession, and it isn't necessarily good for the professions, indeed, that is why I added at the bottom of my post, that the overpayment of doctors might be distorting the recruitment of the right sort of people.

    I presume when you say you work "closely" with the NHS, and you work in recruitment, that you work for an agency? If that is the case, then it may not be very representative of the body of frontline NHS workers, the vast majority of whom are not working through an agency.

    (Original post by Tensa_Zangetsu)
    Also, surely we are all motivated by money, not completely but it does play a big part in what career we choose. I can see your point and respect your opinion, I just disagree.
    Of course, we are motivated by a variety of factors, and everybody is motivated by money (or at east material security) to some degree. Some people are more motivated by some factors than others, and for some people it is money.

    The reason that strong material motivation may be counterproductive for NHS (and public sector) recruitment in general, is related to performance and retention. The vast proportion of your salary as a public sector employee is fixed, and performance related pay is the exception rather than the norm (and most often it is relatively small amounts). Indeed there is controversy as to whether the limited introduction of performance related pay has had a negative impact on the culture and workings of the public sector. So if you do have somebody who is strongly motivated by material gain, then they are less productive in non-performance related pay schemes, than those motivated by passion and beliefs.
    The other factor, and probably the more clear cut one, is that if you recruit somebody strongly motivated by money, after training them up at great expense, they are far more likely to leave the public sector for the private sector, where salaries for skilled and trained workforce is higher.

    People should remember that the median salary in the UK is about 19,000 (and is going to decrease over the next few years).
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    (Original post by Rat_Bag)
    Well am not sure about HCAs, but I agree there is a growing careerism within the medical and nursing profession, and it isn't necessarily good for the professions, indeed, that is why I added at the bottom of my post, that the overpayment of doctors might be distorting the recruitment of the right sort of people.

    I presume when you say you work "closely" with the NHS, and you work in recruitment, that you work for an agency? If that is the case, then it may not be very representative of the body of frontline NHS workers, the vast majority of whom are not working through an agency.



    Of course, we are motivated by a variety of factors, and everybody is motivated by money (or at east material security) to some degree. Some people are more motivated by some factors than others, and for some people it is money.

    The reason that strong material motivation may be counterproductive for NHS (and public sector) recruitment in general, is related to performance and retention. The vast proportion of your salary as a public sector employee is fixed, and performance related pay is the exception rather than the norm (and most often it is relatively small amounts). Indeed there is controversy as to whether the limited introduction of performance related pay has had a negative impact on the culture and workings of the public sector. So if you do have somebody who is strongly motivated by material gain, then they are less productive in non-performance related pay schemes, than those motivated by passion and beliefs.
    The other factor, and probably the more clear cut one, is that if you recruit somebody strongly motivated by money, after training them up at great expense, they are far more likely to leave the public sector for the private sector, where salaries for skilled and trained workforce is higher.

    People should remember that the median salary in the UK is about 19,000 (and is going to decrease over the next few years).

    Interesting stuff, good to hear your views on the subject. Whilst I agree with a lot of your points, I still think 22k for central London for a graduate is pretty darn low, I think you could offer in the region of 25k and still attract the right people as that figure is around average for a graduate scheme. I was looking at rent and to move into a studio, plus council tax and bills it doesn't leave you with much at the end of the month so saving for the future is probably not going to be possible.

    I think I just convinced myself to withdraw from the scheme:confused: lol.
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    (Original post by Tensa_Zangetsu)
    Interesting stuff, good to hear your views on the subject. Whilst I agree with a lot of your points, I still think 22k for central London for a graduate is pretty darn low, I think you could offer in the region of 25k and still attract the right people as that figure is around average for a graduate scheme. I was looking at rent and to move into a studio, plus council tax and bills it doesn't leave you with much at the end of the month so saving for the future is probably not going to be possible.
    The vast majority of placements are not in central London though. And London is not necessarily that expensive, it's just some people make it so. You can live in Elephant &Castle, or Willesden, or part of East London, and still very pretty central, and these places aren't as bad as people make out

    (Original post by Tensa_Zangetsu)
    I think I just convinced myself to withdraw from the scheme:confused: lol.
    I don't think that's a good idea. You should at least go through what you can, and the experience will be beneficial.
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    (Original post by Rat_Bag)
    The vast majority of placements are not in central London though. And London is not necessarily that expensive, it's just some people make it so. You can live in Elephant &Castle, or Willesden, or part of East London, and still very pretty central, and these places aren't as bad as people make out



    I don't think that's a good idea. You should at least go through what you can, and the experience will be beneficial.

    Here's hoping I get placed somewhere like Manc then. I live in Manc now but I grew up in London, it's much more expensive then the north!

    Anyhoo, good luck with your application!
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    (Original post by Rat_Bag)
    There is the school of thought that paying less gets you a more suitable calibre of person. At the end of the day, the NHS is public sector and works best in a highly collaborative manner, with the best outcomes delivered from inner passion of the employees. Paying a below par salary deters individuals motivated by money, status and competitive drive, all of which are very unhelpful motivations for those working in the NHS.

    This is the same arguement being put forward to freeze, if not cut, doctors' salaries.

    I guess the public sector really isn't for me then. I couldn't care less about money or status but I am competitive and like the idea of being in an environment where I constantly feel the need to better myself. I'm going to continue with the application and just hope I get placed somewhere cheap!

    Edit: Read this again and it doesn't really make sense. So you're trying to say doctors with a history of 9A*s, 5As and similar degrees will o should suddenly lose their competitive drive. I doubt that. Medicine is a fiercely competitive environment.
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    (Original post by Regent)
    I guess the public sector really isn't for me then. I couldn't care less about money or status but I am competitive and like the idea of being in an environment where I constantly feel the need to better myself. I'm going to continue with the application and just hope I get placed somewhere cheap!
    There is a difference between a strive to do your best and reach your potential, and competitive drive to do better than those around you. The latter can be well harnessed in the private sector because of the way it is structured, but can be very destructive in the public sector (both in the way these people work, but also in the way that public sector culture is shifted to being more corporate like the private sector, which isn't necessarily for the benefit of the actual goals of public service delivery.

    (Original post by Regent)
    Edit: Read this again and it doesn't really make sense. So you're trying to say doctors with a history of 9A*s, 5As and similar degrees will o should suddenly lose their competitive drive. I doubt that. Medicine is a fiercely competitive environment.
    Yes, and a huge proportion of doctors have personalities totally unsuited to the medical profession. But this isn't the point. Many people excel in their education assessments not for a competitive drive, but for a self actualisation of their best potential and ability. These are two very different motivations, and even though they may achieve the same outcome in assessments, they will be very different individuals in the workplace (which sort of highlights one of the deficiencies of bench marking individuals' general ability by their ability to pass exams)

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Updated: October 11, 2012
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