The Student Room Group

"Beijing is a Nightmare"

Ai Weiwei, the Chinese artist and dissident just released from prison, describes live in the capital city of his home country:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2011/08/28/ai-weiwei-on-beijing-s-nightmare-city.html

Beijing is two cities. One is of power and of money. People don’t care who their neighbors are; they don’t trust you. The other city is one of desperation. I see people on public buses, and I see their eyes, and I see they hold no hope. They can’t even imagine that they’ll be able to buy a house. They come from very poor villages where they’ve never seen electricity or toilet paper.

Every year millions come to Beijing to build its bridges, roads, and houses. Each year they build a Beijing equal to the size of the city in 1949. They are Beijing’s slaves. They squat in illegal structures, which Beijing destroys as it keeps expanding. Who owns houses? Those who belong to the government, the coal bosses, the heads of big enterprises. They come to Beijing to give gifts—and the restaurants and karaoke parlors and saunas are very rich as a result.

Beijing tells foreigners that they can understand the city, that we have the same sort of buildings: the Bird’s Nest, the CCTV tower. Officials who wear a suit and tie like you say we are the same and we can do business. But they deny us basic rights. You will see migrants’ schools closed. You will see hospitals where they give patients stitches—and when they find the patients don’t have any money, they pull the stitches out. It’s a city of violence.
Beijing China

For a man imprisoned and conditionally released, neither neighbors nor strangers nor Beijing’s officials nor courts can be trusted., Chien-Chi Chang / Magnum Photos

The worst thing about Beijing is that you can never trust the judicial system. Without trust, you cannot identify anything; it’s like a sandstorm. You don’t see yourself as part of the city—there are no places that you relate to, that you love to go. No corner, no area touched by a certain kind of light. You have no memory of any material, texture, shape. Everything is constantly changing, according to somebody else’s will, somebody else’s power.

To properly design Beijing, you’d have to let the city have space for different interests, so that people can coexist, so that there is a full body to society. A city is a place that can offer maximum freedom. Otherwise it’s incomplete.

I feel sorry to say I have no favorite place in Beijing. I have no intention of going anywhere in the city. The places are so simple. You don’t want to look at a person walking past because you know exactly what’s on his mind. No curiosity. And no one will even argue with you.

None of my art represents Beijing. The Bird’s Nest—I never think about it. After the Olympics, the common folks don’t talk about it because the Olympics did not bring joy to the people.

There are positives to Beijing. People still give birth to babies. There are a few nice parks. Last week I walked in one, and a few people came up to me and gave me a thumbs up or patted me on the shoulder. Why do they have to do that in such a secretive way? No one is willing to speak out. What are they waiting for? They always tell me, “Weiwei, leave the nation, please.” Or “Live longer and watch them die.” Either leave, or be patient and watch how they die. I really don’t know what I’m going to do.

My ordeal made me understand that on this fabric, there are many hidden spots where they put people without identity. With no name, just a number. They don’t care where you go, what crime you committed. They see you or they don’t see you, it doesn’t make the slightest difference. There are thousands of spots like that. Only your family is crying out that you’re missing. But you can’t get answers from the street communities or officials, or even at the highest levels, the court or the police or the head of the nation. My wife has been writing these kinds of petitions every day, making phone calls to the police station every day. Where is my husband? Just tell me where my husband is. There is no paper, no information.

The strongest character of those spaces is that they’re completely cut off from your memory or anything you’re familiar with. You’re in total isolation. And you don’t know how long you’re going to be there, but you truly believe they can do anything to you. There’s no way to even question it. You’re not protected by anything. Why am I here? Your mind is very uncertain of time. You become like mad. It’s very hard for anyone. Even for people who have strong beliefs.

This city is not about other people or buildings or streets but about your mental structure. If we remember what Kafka writes about his Castle, we get a sense of it. Cities really are mental conditions. Beijing is a nightmare. A constant nightmare.


It always saddens me when people on this forum try to justify the existence of China's dictatorship. We can only wonder, I guess, what will happen to this great man if he keeps speaking his mind...

Scroll to see replies

I wouldn't justify China's dictatorship, but I think there's only so much we can do to encourage democracy in China. It's too economically important to be idealistic and stop trading with them.
Reply 2
China is completely corrupt.

One day you'll see the same thing thats happening in Syria happen in China.
A corrupt oppressive regime with a top slice of well off that tramples all over the less well off and hordes authority.

Yeah Communist China has long to live....
It'll all come crashing down soon enough. There's no way that the Communists will be able to maintain any relevance in a capitalist China.

A truly free, competitive market necessitates a truly free, democratic society. The PRC's days are numbered. Huge dissent in Tibet and Xinjiang, inequality in Shanghai, Guangzhou and Beijing, and successful capitalist alternatives in Taipei, Macau and Hong Kong . . .

China deserves better.
Original post by Clumsy_Chemist
I wouldn't justify China's dictatorship, but I think there's only so much we can do to encourage democracy in China. It's too economically important to be idealistic and stop trading with them.


We don't do anything anymore to encourage democracy in China.

Original post by Aphotic Cosmos
It'll all come crashing down soon enough. There's no way that the Communists will be able to maintain any relevance in a capitalist China.

A truly free, competitive market necessitates a truly free, democratic society. The PRC's days are numbered. Huge dissent in Tibet and Xinjiang, inequality in Shanghai, Guangzhou and Beijing, and successful capitalist alternatives in Taipei, Macau and Hong Kong . . .

China deserves better.


We can only hope so. That, though, was Bill Clinton's plan when he brought China into the WTO and stopped criticizing their human rights violations. Unfortunately, China hasn't really gotten any more free (politically) in the last 20 years.
Reply 6
If you replaced the word Beijing with England i would be convinced that it is accurate.
What China has achieved in such a short space of time is actually remarkable and I doubt could ahve been achieved with a western style democracy. Hell most of the huge advancements in wester nations came at times when the political system was extremly throttled by higher ranking 'society'. And now that it is being liberalised there is endless political stalling that has massive negative effects on society.....Look at the republicand and democrats in America for instance.

Obviously this doesn't justify the injustices done to citizens of any country by its government, past or present, but it is important to recognise that everything isn't as clear cut. Nor that our idea of governance is the only one.
A country cannot be a democracy until it is ready for it. Read it here :-
http://blogs.reuters.com/macroscope/2011/06/22/give-me-liberty-and-give-me-cash/

A still born democracy? Need examples, just take a look at India where most think democracy happens only 1 day every 5 years.

Will China ever be a democracy? A more important thing to ask would be do the Chinese WANT democracy? Could they handle a democratic system of government? Finally would they be better off than they are now or would it become another India?

Taiwan as a democracy isn't really much to shout about, up until the 1990s chairs used to fly in their parliament sessions. Corruption is just as rampant as it is on most parts of the mainland, only difference is you don't get executed if you are caught.

Hong Kong is not a democracy.

Singapore....... essentially a 1 party democracy where oppositions are just crushed through the court system.
Reply 9
It's gonna get even worse when China are hit with the massive inflationary crisis that's brewing behind the scenes in the centrally controlled markets.
Reply 10
The Chinese government is more competant than most. People like Weiwei concern me, in pursuit of their ideals they will end up making the reality worse. Like the arch-tratior Yeltsin did to the Russian people.

As for democracy, it really is over-rated. Switzerland has the only democracy worth envying. I voted in the last few elections and it really is just lip-service from the polictians. A democracy isn't about voting, but about forcing a government to do what the people want them to do. It's an important distinction that is often lost on people. The PRC fears the Chinese people so it actually acts more in their interests than a more "democratic" government would - as it compensates for its illegitimacy.
Reply 11
Original post by RyanT
The Chinese government is more competant than most. People like Weiwei concern me, in pursuit of their ideals they will end up making the reality worse. Like the arch-tratior Yeltsin did to the Russian people.

As for democracy, it really is over-rated. Switzerland has the only democracy worth envying. I voted in the last few elections and it really is just lip-service from the polictians. A democracy isn't about voting, but about forcing a government to do what the people want them to do. It's an important distinction that is often lost on people. The PRC fears the Chinese people so it actually acts more in their interests than a more "democratic" government would - as it compensates for its illegitimacy.


The Chinese government is riddled with corruption to an insane degree. Look at the bullet train farce they can't even get stolen technology to work without accidents and massive theft.

But yeah Democracy is hardly inherently good but without any sort of accountability you end up with massive corruption in the state, and it does not take much for anger at corruption to swing towards anger at the entire political system
Reply 12
Original post by Aj12
The Chinese government is riddled with corruption to an insane degree. Look at the bullet train farce they can't even get stolen technology to work without accidents and massive theft.

But yeah Democracy is hardly inherently good but without any sort of accountability you end up with massive corruption in the state, and it does not take much for anger at corruption to swing towards anger at the entire political system


I don't see bullet trains in India, Pakistan, Angola, Kenya, Argentina, Chile etc etc.....

I'm not sure how old you are AJ but I do remember a lot of train crashes on the news when I was young. It has changed now in the UK but China is having to learn by doing. It doesn't have the luxury of slow development.

They do have a corruption problem, I think the issue is thinking that corruption will be reduced by a transition to democracy.

At the moment the structure of Chinese corruption of patronic, powerful patrons running large government services as part of their connections. They abuse government tax money and take bribes.

If you think a structure of corruption where multinational companies have control over polictians will be better for normal people I think you are deluded.

The status quo and a more democratic system will contain elements of both corruptions I have described, the contrast is the relative frequency under either system. [sorry AJ, have to idiot proof this because of other users]

A competant Chinese government is the best thing for human rights in China. Whether people go to the polls once every five years is neither here nor there. I am forced to agree with the PRC position on Weiwei, he is a trouble maker and it will not be for the benefit of the people.
(edited 12 years ago)
Original post by Jacktri
If you replaced the word Beijing with England i would be convinced that it is accurate.


I get it, you hate the UK...

Original post by MandarinStudent
What China has achieved in such a short space of time is actually remarkable and I doubt could ahve been achieved with a western style democracy. Hell most of the huge advancements in wester nations came at times when the political system was extremly throttled by higher ranking 'society'. And now that it is being liberalised there is endless political stalling that has massive negative effects on society.....Look at the republicand and democrats in America for instance.

Obviously this doesn't justify the injustices done to citizens of any country by its government, past or present, but it is important to recognise that everything isn't as clear cut. Nor that our idea of governance is the only one.


Many democratic nations have, and continue to, achieve high rates of growth. Places like Germany, the Netherlands, Sweden, Taiwan, Israel, and South Korea are all achieving very rapid rates of growth.

The choice you have presented is a false one, and simply used to justify the existence of a dictatorship.

Original post by Erich Hartmann
A country cannot be a democracy until it is ready for it. Read it here :-
http://blogs.reuters.com/macroscope/2011/06/22/give-me-liberty-and-give-me-cash/

A still born democracy? Need examples, just take a look at India where most think democracy happens only 1 day every 5 years.

Will China ever be a democracy? A more important thing to ask would be do the Chinese WANT democracy? Could they handle a democratic system of government? Finally would they be better off than they are now or would it become another India?

Taiwan as a democracy isn't really much to shout about, up until the 1990s chairs used to fly in their parliament sessions. Corruption is just as rampant as it is on most parts of the mainland, only difference is you don't get executed if you are caught.

Hong Kong is not a democracy.

Singapore....... essentially a 1 party democracy where oppositions are just crushed through the court system.


Taiwan is a democracy, and it is wealthier that China. It is also growing very fast economically.

The obvious question I have for you, I guess, is whether you think the UK should be a democracy? After all, if it is so problematic surely we should just become a dictatorship which would, of course, entail banning website like this that discuss politics?

Original post by RyanT
The Chinese government is more competant than most. People like Weiwei concern me, in pursuit of their ideals they will end up making the reality worse. Like the arch-tratior Yeltsin did to the Russian people.

As for democracy, it really is over-rated. Switzerland has the only democracy worth envying. I voted in the last few elections and it really is just lip-service from the polictians. A democracy isn't about voting, but about forcing a government to do what the people want them to do. It's an important distinction that is often lost on people. The PRC fears the Chinese people so it actually acts more in their interests than a more "democratic" government would - as it compensates for its illegitimacy.


This site would not exist in China because it discusses political issues.

That is what you get when you don't have democracy. No freedom of speech. No freedom of assembly. No freedom of petition and no right to vote.

It saddens me that you take these things for granted.
Original post by Wucker

Many democratic nations have, and continue to, achieve high rates of growth. Places like Germany, the Netherlands, Sweden, Taiwan, Israel, and South Korea are all achieving very rapid rates of growth.

The choice you have presented is a false one, and simply used to justify the existence of a dictatorship.

I never presented a choice. I merely stated that the western idea of good governance isn't necessarily the best nor the only system.

Further I'd contend that Taiwan is not a true democracy, at least not to the standards of western democracies as it is completely dominated by a single party (a trend that is observed in almost every major Asian nation).

As for growth rates, I wouldn't say germany's growth rate could be described as "rapid" when compared to china.
Original post by MandarinStudent
I never presented a choice. I merely stated that the western idea of good governance isn't necessarily the best nor the only system.

Further I'd contend that Taiwan is not a true democracy, at least not to the standards of western democracies as it is completely dominated by a single party (a trend that is observed in almost every major Asian nation).

As for growth rates, I wouldn't say germany's growth rate could be described as "rapid" when compared to china.


It isn't necessarily the best, but it doesn't follow that dictatorship is acceptable.

This is completely incorrect. Taiwan has very competitive elections, and the ruling party switched in 2008 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_China_presidential_election,_2008). I am going to hazard a guess and say that there are emotional reasons that prevent you from accepting that Taiwan might be a better place to live than China.

That is because Germany is a developed economy. Developed economies will never grow as fast because they have to rely on new technology for productivity to increase. Developing economies can upgrade using current technology because in these economies the technology is new. That is a simply fact of economics.
Original post by Wucker
Many democratic nations have, and continue to, achieve high rates of growth. Places like Germany, the Netherlands, Sweden, Taiwan, Israel, and South Korea are all achieving very rapid rates of growth.


Original post by MandarinStudent
As for growth rates, I wouldn't say germany's growth rate could be described as "rapid" when compared to china.


Germany grew 0.5% year on year to this quarter. I wouldn't call that growth at all :tongue:
Original post by Clumsy_Chemist
Germany grew 0.5% year on year to this quarter. I wouldn't call that growth at all :tongue:


http://www.tradingeconomics.com/germany/gdp-growth-annual

Germany's annual growth rate is exceptionally good, by European standards. In terms of growth, employment, and debt Germany has weathered the financial collapse quite well.
Original post by Wucker
People don’t care who their neighbors are; they don’t trust you.

That's the same for all big cities. The pace of life is just too fast, the general public has no time to socialise with their neighbours. It is not simply a matter of trust - it is just people never got the chance to get to know each other, and how exactly can strangers tell if they are being trusted or not?

Original post by Wucker
The other city is one of desperation. I see people on public buses, and I see their eyes, and I see they hold no hope.

I LOLed at this. :colondollar: Too emotional for me.:colone:

Original post by Wucker
They can’t even imagine that they’ll be able to buy a house.

By 'they', who exactly is the author referring to? The government can only influence the prices of real estates by establishing policies, and right now, Beijiing has lots and lots of policies to restrain the demand for real estates in order to keep the prices down. If 'they' are people whose homes are not in Beijing but wish to buy a house in Beijing, then surely it is because there are so many 'they's that the prices are shooting up? Beijing has been changing very rapidly for the past decade or so, millions or people are deciding to stay here, and I think it very normal for us to find it difficult to adjust to the rapid population growth and accommodate all these people. Give it time, soon things would sort out - stirring up hatred for the government or for the city itself is rather futile and childish, imo.

Original post by Wucker
They come from very poor villages where they’ve never seen electricity or toilet paper.

That, personally speaking, besides being a hilarious exaggeration, is also incoherent with previous argument.

Original post by Wucker
They are Beijing’s slaves.

Slaves are owned and not paid for. Builders in Beijing have one of the highest wages on average for their profession within China. If this extract is to be viewed as a factual report, then comparing paid workers to slaves seems like, if I daresay, propaganda.:rolleyes:

Original post by Wucker
You will see migrants’ schools closed. You will see hospitals where they give patients stitches—and when they find the patients don’t have any money, they pull the stitches out.

Yes, some of the migrants' schools are closed this September - for the purpose of structure strengthening as Beijing has a new policy of earthquake resistance of schools and hospitals. The students are being dispersed to other schools in the area. If that is true, I can only see goodness out of this.

As for the stitches part, I have no means of verifying that account. It seems to me though, pulling the stitches out will not save them any money - they cannot be re-used, surely??!?! - why would anyone bother pulling them out AFTER stitching them on bewilders me.

Original post by Wucker
You don’t want to look at a person walking past because you know exactly what’s on his mind. No curiosity.

:confused: Massive generalising?


Original post by Wucker
None of my art represents Beijing. The Bird’s Nest—I never think about it.

I never want to think about it either - awful-looking, sorry to say, Mr Ai. =(

Original post by Wucker
After the Olympics, the common folks don’t talk about it because the Olympics did not bring joy to the people.

That's untrue. It did bring us joy. First time Beijing hosted an international event as big as this, of course we were happy. In fact, we were happy since the news of us hosting the 2008 Olympic games came out in July 2011 - I distinctively remember that night when people went on the streets to celebrate - rare occurance in modern Beijing. Students at my school practically FOUGHT for volunteering places. Though I have to say economically speaking, the Beijing Olympic games brought us no benefits - if not deficits, and that is the only reason I can think of if any Beijing-ers were unhappy after the games.

Original post by Wucker
Cities really are mental conditions. Beijing is a nightmare. A constant nightmare.

That's... brave. Cities are mental conditions of people within it. Your opinion of other people's opinion is the reflection of the mental conditions of you. You think the mental conditions of Beijing-ers is a constant nightmare and hence Beijing is a constant nightmare. Conclusion: Your mental condition is a constant nightmare, Mr. Ai. Well-said.:s-smilie:


I don't care what anyone says about Beijing. I was bred and born here. I grew up here. This is my home. I love Beijing, every part of it. I love our horrible weather - freezing winters and burning summers, not to mention the 'smog'. I love our rapidly changing surroundings. I love our ill-made policies. I love here, because I know Beijing is changing for the better and defects are the prices we pay along the way. What I don't love is people living in Beijing and hating it. Why be here if you hate it here? Just get your ass out.
Ridiculous article. This artist, no matter how right his views are, will do nothing but hinder progress

oh and I fully recommend that people visit Beijing, lots of good food there
(edited 12 years ago)

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