[Smrgn]

(Original post by Adidas90)
Most people smoke cannabis with tobacco, so lol

But others don't...so lol...I guess?

(Original post by Adidas90)
Oral related disease? Lolwut

Whoops! I don't know what I was thinking when I typed that, I meant diseases related to the mouth.

(Original post by Adidas90)
Thirdly, I guarantee you as a user of both, alcohol impairs your cognitive ability, awareness, and ability to drive far more than cannabis does. Should alcohol therefore be illegal?

Where did say I was against the legalisaton of cannabis? The fact that cannabis [B]does[B] impair awareness is the problem, it's irrelevant if alcohol is worse.

(Original post by Adidas90)
There currently exists no roadside test for cannabis use and driving because there is little demand to fund making one.

That because it's currently illegal - such cases would skyrocket if it were legalised, and the technology pertaining to a 'quick and easy' method of detecting cannabis doesn't exist - anywhere.

(Original post by Adidas90)
You show textbook opinions and "knowledge" of cannabis as that of a 12 year old child that has watched "drug awareness" videos and films where people take one drag of a spliff and see shapes and colours lmao. You know so little about what you're talking about it's hilarious.

Yeah, I know what you mean. Reading over 200 peer-reviewed articles relating to the negative implications of marijuana is clearly equivalent to that of a twelve year old. You need to grow up, the fact that you didn't refute any of the medical problems with marijuana that I mentioned suggests that you agree with it - in which case my "knowledge" about the subject is clearly sufficient.

[Adidas90]

(Original post by Smrgn)
Whoops! I don't know what I was thinking when I typed that, I meant diseases related to the mouth.

I know that, give me the fuking list Einstein.

(Original post by Smrgn)
Where did say I was against the legalisaton of cannabis? The fact that cannabis [B]does[B] impair awareness is the problem, it's irrelevant if alcohol is worse.

Again see salvia, which also impairs awareness (and a million times more so) yet isn't illegal and apparantly isn't a problem.

(Original post by Smrgn)
Yeah, I know what you mean. Reading over 200 peer-reviewed articles relating to the negative implications of marijuana is clearly equivalent to that of a twelve year old. You need to grow up, the fact that you didn't refute any of the medical problems with marijuana that I mentioned suggests that you agree with it - in which case my "knowledge" about the subject is clearly sufficient.

Ok, medical problems.

Lung cancer; already addressed by other poster mentioning ingesting cannabis as opposed to smoking it. Secondly "regular cannabis users" as outlined in these peer-reviewed articles rarely take into account the fact that users smoke it with tobacco. Few users can afford to constantly smoke it on its own.

Oral-related diseases? Source, and a list?

Schizophrenia and other mental issues as another poster has already said may be triggered by cannabis use but are mostly underlying and genetic beforehand so I don't really see the relevance of that one.

And finally awareness and mental impairment, which we already addressed with totally legal drugs such as salvia which I don't see you reading "200 peer-reviewed articles on", why not? Oh yeah, because you've never read about it in the Daily Fail. The day some dopey kid takes some salvia and falls off a bridge and dies, is the day you'll be chirping on about the dangers of that, so sit down, son.

[Smrgn]

(Original post by edd360)
If I'm baking my weed into hash brownies there is absolutely nothing there which is going to increase my risk of lung cancer, which also voids many of your other points which are only applicable to smoked cannabis. Inhaling the combusted fumes of ANY plant, legal or otherwise, will also increase the risk of lung cancer.

But like I said to the other person, it's irrelevant how you do it, because there are others do it differently, which means they are at a risk with the problems aforementioned.

(Original post by edd360)
Schizophrenia and other such mental illnesses are genetic, and if they are not present in the person before smoking weed, they will not be present at any point after starting. Cannabis MAY trigger the early onset of such illnesses, but that is all.

But that is all? That sounds like a huge problem to me. If you inherit the genetics from either parent, there is a 10% chance of developing it, with a 1% chance of developing it if neither parent has it. But I don't see how you can downplay this as not much of a problem, it clearly is since they are linked.

(Original post by edd360)
As for your point about awareness, from personal experience I have found cannabis to have no negative effects on driving.

Controlled studies suggest otherwise.

(Original post by edd360)
If people cause an accident on the road they will have to deal with the consequences, regardless of if they are stoned or not. Sure there might be no way to prove someone is driving whilst high, but unless they do anything wrong in the first place they aren't going to find themselves in that situation. Driving whilst stoned cannot be comparable to drink driving, because the 2 drugs are not even comparable themselves. Anyway this isn't a reason to keep weed illegal, more of a reason to make cars illegal.

f driving whilst stoned impairs ones ability to drive safely, don't you understand that putting other peoples lives at danger is a huge problem? And that they shouldn't face the consequences when it happens, but it should be preventable all together. And besides, this is a perfect comparison to alcohol - since they both impair peoples ability to drive safely and decrease awareness.

[edd360]

(Original post by Smrgn)
But like I said to the other person, it's irrelevant how you do it, because there are others do it differently, which means they are at a risk with the problems aforementioned.

So if someone smokes lawn cuttings, and then gets lung cancer, should lawns therefore be made illegal? Your logic suggests yes.

But that is all? That sounds like a huge problem to me. If you inherit the genetics from either parent, there is a 10% chance of developing it, with a 1% chance of developing it if neither parent has it. But I don't see how you can downplay this as not much of a problem, it clearly is since they are linked.

I don't even know the validity of my statement, that;s just the worst case scenario. It's not like joints can be dipped in schizophrenia and laced with it so when you smoke it you get it, thats not how it works.After looking at the source you posted, all it showed is that people WITH schizophrenia were more likely to abuse cannabis. It suggested no evidence that cannabis CAUSES schizophrenia.

Controlled studies suggest otherwise.

Well that may be so, but I can only live my life based off things I personally perceive and experience, and dangerous driving through the use of cannabis is not one of them. But as I said, this is not a problem with cannabis, this is a problem with driving and people doing so recklessly.

f driving whilst stoned impairs ones ability to drive safely, don't you understand that putting other peoples lives at danger is a huge problem? And that they shouldn't face the consequences when it happens, but it should be preventable all together. And besides, this is a perfect comparison to alcohol - since they both impair peoples ability to drive safely and decrease awareness.

If you want to prevent it all together make cars illegal. Sounds stupid doesn't it? There will always be car accidents with or without cannabis, car accidents contributed to by cannabis do not happen enough for it to warrant not making it legal. Driving whilst blind is dangerous to others, should we therefore make being blind illegal? No, we make driving whilst blind illegal, so we do the same with weed, and make driving whilst on it illegal.

[rugbyladosc]

(Original post by Smrgn)
Yes there is. I hear it far too often that marijuana is completely harmless, despite it not being the case at all. Marijuana increases the chances of someone developing lung cancer and a premalignant condition, it can cause people to develop schizophrenia and psychosis and other mental health issues, it impairs ones cognitive abilities in the long run, there are several oral related diseases, it also impairs respiratory function, and the biggie - it causes awareness to decline dramatically if someone is stoned, therefore imagine the regulations required for driving whilst stoned. What sort of road side test could be done to prove someone has smoked marijuana? Sure, someone may looked stoned and smell of the stuff, but that's not sufficient evidence to prosecute someone.

Sources: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18238947
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2516340/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16710117
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17916224
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15780846
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16050084

Suck out you indoctrinated fool

[Smrgn]

(Original post by Adidas90)
I know that, give me the fuking list Einstein.

Woah, calm down buddy, you seem a little angry I must say. I did provide the source for you, so I'll just quote it for you instead:

"Cannabis smoke acts as a carcinogen and is associated with dysplastic changes and pre-malignant lesions within the oral mucosa. Users are also prone to oral infections, possibly due to the immunosuppressive effects. Dental treatment on patients intoxicated on cannabis can result in the patient experiencing acute anxiety, dysphoria and psychotic-like paranoiac thoughts. The use of local anaesthetic containing epinephrine may seriously prolong tachycardia already induced by an acute dose of cannabis. Oral health care providers should be aware of the diverse adverse effects of cannabis on general and oral health and incorporate questions about patients' patterns of use in the medical history."

(Original post by Adidas90)
Again see salvia, which also impairs awareness (and a million times more so) yet isn't illegal and apparantly isn't a problem.

And again, why is this relevant? We're not discussing which drugs are worse than which, or if some drugs that are legal are more detrimental to your health than others, we we're discussing if marijuana has negative implications. Why is this so hard to understand?

(Original post by Adidas90)
Lung cancer; already addressed by other poster mentioning ingesting cannabis as opposed to smoking it. Secondly "regular cannabis users" as outlined in these peer-reviewed articles rarely take into account the fact that users smoke it with tobacco. Few users can afford to constantly smoke it on its own.

That's pretty much like saying "Well if I buy this cocaine and throw it away, then it's not gong to be a problem." - but its still a problem, since people do it differently. Let me make this clear to you - not everyone ingests cannabis

(Original post by Adidas90)
Schizophrenia and other mental issues as another poster has already said may be triggered by cannabis use but are mostly underlying and genetic beforehand so I don't really see the relevance of that one.

You don't see the relevance of cannabis causing the development of schizophrenia? I think you're on your own with that one.

(Original post by Adidas90)
And finally awareness and mental impairment, which we already addressed with totally legal drugs such as salvia which I don't see you reading "200 peer-reviewed articles on", why not?

Because it doesn't interest me. But as I said, this mention of salvia is irrelevant.

(Original post by Adidas90)
Oh yeah, because you've never read about it in the Daily Fail. The day some dopey kid takes some salvia and falls off a bridge and dies, is the day you'll be chirping on about the dangers of that, so sit down, son.

Probably. But again, why do you keep mentioning salvia? We are discussing the dangers of marijuana, not salvia. The fact that salvia probably is more dangerous than marijuana doesn't remove the dangers of marijuana, they will still exist regardless. Stop changing the subject.

[Smrgn]

(Original post by rugbyladosc)
Suck out you indoctrinated fool

That's such a compelling and persuasive argument, thanks for your insight.

[Adidas90]

(Original post by Smrgn)
Because it doesn't interest me. But as I said, this mention of salvia is irrelevant.

Probably. But again, why do you keep mentioning salvia? We are discussing the dangers of marijuana, not salvia. The fact that salvia probably is more dangerous than marijuana doesn't remove the dangers of marijuana, they will still exist regardless. Stop changing the subject.

How is it irrelevant? Can I just check we are on the same page here? You are either:

1) Countering the OP's argument that cannabis should be legalised, and you think it should be illegal, and you are using its mental impairment as a reason for this.

In which case that is why I'm mentioning salvia because it affects awareness alot more than cannabis but yet is legal. Yes you've never directly said cannabis should be illegal but you have referred to its mental impairment properties as a "problem":

(Original post by Smrgn)
The fact that cannabis [B]does[B] impair awareness is the problem

or

2) You're saying cannabis affects awareness, period, with no stance on the legalisation of cannabis. In which case, well done I agree with you it does to some degree but what's your point? The content of this thread is regarding legalising cannabis and thus if your point doesn't support or counter that (it doesn't, due to the fact that salvia mentally impairs worse and is legal) then you haven't really contributed anything. It's like going into a pro life vs pro choice thread and saying "Aborted fetuses will never become adults".

[Adidas90]

(Original post by Smrgn)
"Cannabis smoke acts as a carcinogen and is associated with dysplastic changes and pre-malignant lesions within the oral mucosa. Users are also prone to oral infections, possibly due to the immunosuppressive effects.

I would love to see the incidence of these diseases within the oral mucosa with any significance between cannabis smokers and control groups, where the confounding variable of tobacco smoking along with the cannabis (in a joint) is removed.

(Original post by Smrgn)
Dental treatment on patients intoxicated on cannabis can result in the patient experiencing acute anxiety, dysphoria and psychotic-like paranoiac thoughts.

This just means nothing. You might aswell say "Warning, important notice: performing dental treatments on someone under the influence of a drug may not be acting like their normal selves!!!!!11!!"

(Original post by Smrgn)
The use of local anaesthetic containing epinephrine may seriously prolong tachycardia already induced by an acute dose of cannabis.

Cannabis causes tachycardia and if you give someone adrenaline (which can also cause tachycardia) at the same time as cannabis they may experience prolonged tachycardia. Wow, stop the presses!

A charming little paragraph of text full of basically nothing.

[Smrgn]

(Original post by edd360)
So if someone smokes lawn cuttings, and then gets lung cancer, should lawns therefore be made illegal? Your logic suggests yes.

Let me make this clear - I am not against the legalisation of cannabis, I didn't suggest anywhere that I was. You made the claim that there was nothing wrong with cannabis, I'm contesting that claim, that's all.

(Original post by edd360)
I don't even know the validity of my statement, that;s just the worst case scenario. It's not like joints can be dipped in schizophrenia and laced with it so when you smoke it you get it, thats not how it works.After looking at the source you posted, all it showed is that people WITH schizophrenia were more likely to abuse cannabis. It suggested no evidence that cannabis CAUSES schizophrenia.

Cannabis is a component cause for schizophrenia - which means that "A cause of a disease event is an event that preceded the disease event in a disease causal chain." See this article - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19609589

(Original post by edd360)
Well that may be so, but I can only live my life based off things I personally perceive and experience, and dangerous driving through the use of cannabis is not one of them. But as I said, this is not a problem with cannabis, this is a problem with driving and people doing so recklessly. If you want to prevent it all together make cars illegal. Sounds stupid doesn't it? There will always be car accidents with or without cannabis, car accidents contributed to by cannabis do not happen enough for it to warrant not making it legal. Driving whilst blind is dangerous to others, should we therefore make being blind illegal? No, we make driving whilst blind illegal, so we do the same with weed, and make driving whilst on it illegal.

Err...that's what I was suggesting the whole time. It should be illegal if cannabis were to be legalised - but how could we enforce that? There is no "breathalyzer" type device for marijuana. It takes a few days to detect cannabis in someones system, but this leads to the problem that marijuana stays in the system for around 5-30 days depending on the level of use, so there would be no way of knowing at the time that the person was driving. We couldn't regulate it by the fact that someone may look stoned and smell like marijuana ether, since this is highly insufficient.

[Adidas90]

(Original post by Smrgn)
Let me make this clear - I am not against the legalisation of cannabis, I didn't suggest anywhere that I was. You made the claim that there was nothing wrong with cannabis, I'm contesting that claim, that's all.

You've answered my question above then. Therefore your point is null and means little in the context of this thread. Cannabis causes mental impairment, well done, that's just one of the reasons why people use it. People don't get high to experience a feeling of being mentally sharp, focussed and driven.

[Tootles]

(Original post by Keenan1996)
Ok, I was wondering what other people's views are on the legalisation of cannabis in the UK, for medical and recreational use and what the pros and cons would be if legalised?

Personally, I think it should be legalised. I have many reasons and arguments for that, but here a five reasons which I think are the most valid.

1. No deaths have been directly linked to cannabis.

2. Alcohol is always on the news because of people causing anti-social behaviour under the influence.... Cannabis is not. In fact, you never hear of anyone starting fights or being aggressive whilst high. Surely there's something not right there?

3. It would limit and reduce the illegal dealings of cannabis on the streets as the shops would probably offer better prices putting the dealers out of business. Surely this has many positive impacts. No more problems due to people not paying the dealers, no more laced cannabis, no more time hunting down the dealers, and more time spent hunting down real criminals!

4. It would create a profit for the government on tax, which could be spent on many various things, benefiting society. It would also create many jobs as people will be needed to help produce the plant on a mass scale. Job creation would really benefit many people in the UK at the moment.

5. It does not lead to 'harder' drugs. 'studies in the U.S. have shown that over 75 percent of all Americans who use marijuana never used hard drugs.'


To me, the debate is simple, it should be legalised.

I once got a warning and a severe penalty for giving my opinion on this, and there's a whole thread about it? Why do I get in trouble for saying I don't see what's wrong, and this thread gets left here even though there are people talking openly about doing it, and saying they think it should be legal?

Maybe some of the mods are just pillocks. One rule for some people, another for other people.

[Tomac]

I agree. I was arguing about this like last year on here, it should be legalized.

[suggsina]

(Original post by Smrgn)
and the biggie - it causes awareness to decline dramatically if someone is stoned, therefore imagine the regulations required for driving whilst stoned. What sort of road side test could be done to prove someone has smoked marijuana? Sure, someone may looked stoned and smell of the stuff, but that's not sufficient evidence to prosecute someone.

Driving under the influence of drugs is already a crime with established regulations, and of course you can be prosecuted for it. Remember George Michael!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10519318

(Original post by Adidas90)
Oral related disease? Lolwut

Haven't you ever heard of oral cancer?

[Adidas90]

(Original post by suggsina)
Haven't you ever heard of oral cancer?

As caused by cannabis, nope.

[suggsina]

(Original post by edd360)
I like to think of it as if it can happen without cannabis, then cannabis isn't responsible.

Car accidents happen without cannabis, so cannabis is not responsible for car accidents.

That doesn't really work... Deaths happen without heroin, so heroin is not responsible for deaths?

[Smrgn]

(Original post by Adidas90)
How is it irrelevant? Can I just check we are on the same page here? You are either:

1) Countering the OP's argument that cannabis should be legalised, and you think it should be illegal, and you are using its mental impairment as a reason for this.

In which case that is why I'm mentioning salvia because it affects awareness alot more than cannabis but yet is legal. Yes you've never directly said cannabis should be illegal but you have referred to its mental impairment properties as a "problem":

No! I've mentioned that I'm not against the legalisation of cannabis - I've made this fact abundantly clear!

(Original post by Adidas90)
2) You're saying cannabis affects awareness, period, with no stance on the legalisation of cannabis. In which case, well done I agree with you it does to some degree but what's your point? The content of this thread is regarding legalising cannabis and thus if your point doesn't support or counter that (it doesn't, due to the fact that salvia mentally impairs worse and is legal) then you haven't really contributed anything. It's like going into a pro life vs pro choice thread and saying "Aborted fetuses will never become adults".

Jesus, why is it so hard to get my point across? I was contesting a claim made by anther user that "there is absolutely nothing wrong with cannabis". Therefore, your analogy is meaningless. A better analogy would be visiting a pro life vs a pro choice thread and contesting a claim made by someone else on their position of when life begins. Besides, by pointing out the negative implications of cannabis will greatly contribute to the discussion and may influence decisions of some people who are unsure.

(Original post by Adidas90)
I would love to see the incidence of these diseases within the oral mucosa with any significance between cannabis smokers and control groups, where the confounding variable of tobacco smoking along with the cannabis (in a joint) is removed.

You'd have to pay for the article to reveal that information.

(Original post by Adidas90)
This just means nothing. You might aswell say "Warning, important notice: performing dental treatments on someone under the influence of a drug may not be acting like their normal selves!!!!!11!!"

(Original post by Adidas90)
Cannabis causes tachycardia and if you give someone adrenaline (which can also cause tachycardia) at the same time as cannabis they may experience prolonged tachycardia. Wow, stop the presses!

A charming little paragraph of text full of basically nothing.

All I was dong was quoting the final part of the article in its entirety that you didn't bother to read, despite me providing it to you. However, you seem to believe that heart failure, heart attacks and coronary artery disease isn't very dangerous...wow!

[Runninground]

Whats the big deal about it? Its a drug. DRUG. Why do people not realise that most drugs are BAD in some way. Why are you all trying to harm yourselves?!?!

[suggsina]

(Original post by Adidas90)
As caused by cannabis, nope.

I would have thought that any kind of smoking, tobacco, cannabis or anything else would have at least increased the risk. But i agree that this isn't much of an argument, seeing as tobacco is obviously terrible in this department and still legal.

[edd360]

(Original post by suggsina)
That doesn't really work... Deaths happen without heroin, so heroin is not responsible for deaths?

If you want to get philosophical about it, you could say no heroin is not responsible for death, it is the user that is responsible. Surely you have heard the phrase "guns don't kill people" before...same principle.

It isn't the heroin that kills someone, it might be the cause of a chain reaction of events which leads to a person's death, but so is being born. So hence by giving birth to your child you are killing it, so hence giving birth should be made illegal.