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Training Contracts 2014

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I'm pretty sure I have.

I was on the cvmail website, from there next to the firm's name, I clicked 'Apply now' or whatever.

I was already logged in, my personal details were already on the form, as were my languages, but all my education details had been removed for some reason.

If you had made any changes, I think the "save" function works differently on the education pages to all the others. On most pages, going to "Next" will save your stuff, and for some reason it doesn't in those - you actually have to click "save".

I could just be talking complete irrelevance, though. Is this a new firm or continuing an old app?

Reply 141

dom111

just done a linklaters application.

Got rejected from Travers smith for 2013 after one interview.
Thought I had nailed it as well.

Reply 142

avocat

i've come across applications which have a box in the questions section where it asks if you have anything you'd like to ask them at interview. is this actually necessary to fill in? normally if i was at an interview id think of a question on the spot or something related to the interview itself...seems a bit weird that they already need to know what you want to ask?

Reply 143

peachmelba

Original post by avocat

The questions you ask - at a law fair, at an open day, during a VS, on an application - are an important part of securing a TC.

If you ask nothing, it demonstrates that you are not really interested in that firm. If you ask something to which the answer is found on the firm's website, it shows that you haven't done your research properly. If you ask questions, which you genuinely want answers to and which are tailored to whom they are being asked, it can provide evidence that a) you have an enquiring mind b) you are thinking about how your skills and experience might fit c) that you are interested in the commercial world and how that particular firm adapts to it d) that you are aware that life as a trainee will be demanding and requires some understanding of the challenges ahead.

The box on the form is an opportunity to address some of the above and helps ensure that the interviewer can provide you with answers.

Reply 144

cocacola2

Original post by avocat

This is for questions you would like to ask about the firm, concerning information which may not be available in the public domain. Never ask questions that are already on the website or the grad site, as that shows a lack of research.

It may be a question about a specific aspect of the training scheme, the growth of the firm, the direction in which it is heading, wanting to know more about the working environment, more about a certain department etc.

Thinking of these questions on the spot isn't always a good idea, you may think of more questions a long these lines or more questions based on the content of the interview but its best to prepare a few questions before hand.

When you are there, it might be good to ask questions directly of the partners about the area of work they do etc.

I could be completely wrong.. you might get a better answer from somebody else. But this is the approach I would take.

Edit: See answer above - expresses the same but in a much more concise manner.

(edited 12 years ago)

Reply 145

avocat

Original post by cocacola2

Original post by peachmelba

thanks for the advice :smile:

i get that it's always important to ask questions at open days and law fairs, and i have had interviews where they just asked if you have any questions at the end. but it just seems a bit weird to me that they ask you if you have questions even before they've offered an interview... i can sort of understand if they asked you after they made the offer...then again i guess it's just another test :frown:

waaa....applications getting to me already clearly

Reply 146

beepbeeprichie

I genuinely hate my life.

Reply 147

cocacola2

Original post by beepbeeprichie

I genuinely hate my life.

Join the club :smile:

Reply 148

Clip

Original post by avocat

"When do I start?"

But seriously, I think the problem (as with so many of these) is that you don't want to sound contrived, or that you've just sat around for three hours thinking up a question - as that would be bogus and obvious.

These things do come across as a bit of a trap though. I've heard a lot of recruiters grumble that candidates have asked a question the answer to which was readily available on their site. Problem is, during the application process and any open days, I can see how it's easy to get information overload, and all your questions get answered, so when you get to "any questions" there's nothing left to say and you look like a plum.

I've always believed "If you've got nothing to say, don't say it," but I can see how in the recruitment/interview context, that's not good advice. If you really feel like saying something - maybe have some stand-bys like dress-code or subsidised canteen or something.

Reply 149

peachmelba

Original post by Clip

.I've always believed "If you've got nothing to say, don't say it," but I can see how in the recruitment/interview context, that's not good advice. If you really feel like saying something - maybe have some stand-bys like dress-code or subsidised canteen or something.

I have to say that either of those questions on the application form deserves an immediate ding.

Reply 150

avocat

Original post by Clip

"When do I start?"

I've always believed "If you've got nothing to say, don't say it," but I can see how in the recruitment/interview context, that's not good advice. If you really feel like saying something - maybe have some stand-bys like dress-code or subsidised canteen or something.

brilliant suggestions. one of my friends did an internship at RBS this summer and said that the subsidised onsite Starbucks was the biggest deal maker for him...

Reply 151

Clip

Original post by peachmelba

I have to say that either of those questions on the application form deserves an immediate ding.

Is a "ding" good or bad?

Original post by hmaus

PMSL at the idea of someone's only question at the end of an interview being "so... do you have a subsidised canteen?"

Ok, be fair - you don't ask it like that. Put it in the context of something like - "What's the rationale behind the subsidised canteen? Is it to improve morale and organisational cohesivity - or is it to get people to stay in the building more by encouraging them eat al desko?"*

Original post by avocat

brilliant suggestions. one of my friends did an internship at RBS this summer and said that the subsidised onsite Starbucks was the biggest deal maker for him...

If you think you're a comedian you could say "This isn't what I meant when I said I wanted to work closely with the firm's baristas".

*That's another answer I claim IP on - so if everyone is banned from using it at ACs that I'm at too. I wouldn't worry, though - the way things are going, that might be a very short list.

Reply 152

peachmelba

Original post by Clip

Is a "ding" good or bad?

I think it's originally an American university expression. Whenever anyone got a job rejection, they were supposed to ring a bell in the bar and buy everyone a drink... DING!!

Reply 153

Conkermon

Original post by peachmelba

If you ask questions, which you genuinely want answers to and which are tailored to whom they are being asked, it can provide evidence that a) you have an enquiring mind b) you are thinking about how your skills and experience might fit c) that you are interested in the commercial world and how that particular firm adapts to it d) that you are aware that life as a trainee will be demanding and requires some understanding of the challenges ahead.

The box on the form is an opportunity to address some of the above and helps ensure that the interviewer can provide you with answers.

Any information on how a on non law student should approach this? I feel like a lot of the genuine questions I have will seem amateurish compared to those of law students.. Are we expected to be equally clued up?

Edit: Never mind, premature posting! Just read the rest of the thread. Some good advice.

(edited 12 years ago)

Reply 154

Clip

Original post by peachmelba

I think it's originally an American university expression. Whenever anyone got a job rejection, they were supposed to ring a bell in the bar and buy everyone a drink... DING!!

I remember seeing something similar at a cold-calling telesales office, there was a bell in the corner and if anyone made a sale they were supposed to ring it and everyone else was supposed to whoop like baboons.

Reply 155

Clip

Original post by hmaus

Heh I know but I just imagined someone doing that and had to snigger to myself :wink:

Was anyone at that careers event at College of Law when the HR Recruitment Manager from RPC (I think it was) talked about good and bad general practice for applications? She said a load about how you should be truthful and not make stuff up that you think sounds good for questions, then ended by saying something like: "If your email address is something like sexybabe76@gmail, it would be a good idea to have a separate email just for your applications"

And this girl at the back put up her hand and said something about how she thought that was contradictory - if your email address is sexybabe76, then that's part of your personality.

The RPC woman just nodded and said "Ok. That's one way of looking at it."

Reply 156

Clip

Forsters done. Really annoying proprietary application form.

Reply 157

nulli tertius

Original post by Med2Ky

Let the hunt begain all over again... eugh

May I point out that there are 79 firms currently on LawCareers.net whose applications for 2013 have not yet closed compared with 201 that are currently inviting applications for 2014.

Reply 158

cocacola2

Original post by nulli tertius

May I point out that there are 79 firms currently on LawCareers.net whose applications for 2013 have not yet closed compared with 201 that are currently inviting applications for 2014.

Most of those '201' are automatically listed there. A lot have not started actually accepting applications.

Some have if you look at cvmail and a few have that use apply4law.

A lot of the 79 won't suit tge people on here either.

Personally, I plan on applying to some of the smaller firms because I'm interested in a broad range of work. Worst case scenario, I'd even do criminal work because it was what initially interested me in legal practise. I'd say my interest for commercial work now is much greater than my interest ever was in crime, but nonetheless I'm still willing to apply to those kind of firms as a last resort.

If I knew though with 100% certainty that I wouldn't be able to obtain a TC with a commercial firm, probably like many other individuals on TSR I'd be more likely to turn to one of the accountancy firms and see what interesting work could be done there rather than look at high street law firms.

I'd think there is more chance of doing some finance/tax/company related work for an accountancy and then finding a commercial TC than doing high street work then moving to commercial. Am I wrong in thinking this?

Reply 159

nulli tertius

Original post by cocacola2

I accept your point about firms not having actually started to accept applications.

I think one of the problems is that people on TSR tend to see a split between the magic/silver circle firms and High Street without seeing that there are a lot of firms that are neither.

One can look at a firm such as Freeths in Nottingham and apart from a bit of private client for HNW individuals, they are exclusively doing corporate and commercial work

Andrew Jacksons in Hull have a slightly wider client base but what they are known for is fishing/shipping/transport and logistics.

Finers Stephens Innocent is a media law firm.

Howard Kennedy is a London commercial property firm.

Kennedys are a commercial litigation firm with an international practice.

Devonshires are known for property finance,

This is all a long way from doing Mr & Mrs Smith's conveyancing.

Even amongst the firms which are doing a significant amount of something else, commercial work of one sort or another is usually their bedrock. Perhaps 30 years ago it would have domestic conveyancing but no longer.