The Official "Oxford or Cambridge?" Thread

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Here are the reasons why I think I SHOULD apply to Oxford:

1) I'm very passionate and -at the risk of sounding brash- good at English. I'm relatively sure I will perform well in the ELAT test, being a very close reader who picks things up quite quickly and thus may prosper within this exam. ELAT is probably the main factor, as far as I've gathered, along with interview in deciding places.

2) Latin is not English. I'm being highly realistic here as I achieved a low A in AS. This could translate into a B next year if I take it. The jump from AS Latin to A2 Latin is astronomical, a lot larger than the GCSE/AS jump. The Economics jump, according to various sources, is not as big.

3) Through UCAS I also need to consider teacher's predictions. I have more chance being predicted three A*s if I take Economics and with As in all my module grades for AS my application should look quite strong, taking into account the invisibility of UMS with Oxford.

4) I'm certain I can get at least three As next year with Economics, English and History. There is more coursework which acts as a cushion to any disaster as well as the fact I will be able to focus more on those subjects with Latin out of the way. Seeing as I only have 4 written examinations next year I will be able to hone in on exam technique and content for each to make sure I don't fail.

5) Many people apply to Oxford/Cambridge without Latin. Unless you have actually tried the subject you have no idea how difficult it is. There is, in my opinion, more content to learn than history. The translation of ancient passages also comes easier to some than others. My literature side to Latin was always very strong, stemming from potency in English, however, my translations were always weaker. The translating element is what gets more difficult and I don't really want to take a foolish risk.

6) I am widely read. My preparation for interview has been extensive and my personal statement is littered with literary references, hopefully what Oxford want. I am confident I could speak at length and with enthusiasm about English in interview.

7) Oxford set the challenge of 100 books in a year, or two books a week. I know I can easily achieve this as I can manage this now, even when at boarding school. So as far as coping with the workload I'm sure I could manage it. The Old English element for the Oxford course differs from the foreign language option in the Cambridge course. This means that another language isn't as important as far as dealing with the course goes in terms of Oxford compared to Cambridge.

8) My UCAS application will have all As at AS, 9 A*s at GCSE, hopefully a decent personal statement and a prediction of at least A*A*A. With Latin I could be predicted a B, which would look odd to Oxford admissions, maybe determining that I fluked the AS Latin exam.

So I think your half hearted, shallow and exceeding unhelpful remark does not take into account all these factors. I do take on board criticism but not sweeping rudeness that was only posted to get a cheap laugh.

Just read this. You sound like a bit of a dick here. I fear for your personal statement.

Reply 81

hslt

Original post by nexttime

I can see no basis for this comment whatsoever - it is easily possible to have a candidate that doesn't get an Oxford interview who would have got into Cambridge (anyone with weak GCSEs/BMAT but strong UMS and interview would be in this position). Whether that applies here is debatable.

Be careful with your words - the stats given do not say this, as they only mention means and show the histogram. 46% of applicants have higher than 80%, so i suspect that the 50th percentile is actually 80%. We can't tell for sure.

Exaggeration, i feel! >2/3 of the uniformly high-achieving applicants do not get an interview, so it obviously isn't easy.

You sir are both anal and unhelpful - pedantism in human form.

(edited 12 years ago)

Reply 82

shoshin

Original post by hslt

You sir are..pedantism in human form..

Is there any other form of pedantry?

Reply 83

nexttime

Original post by hslt

You sir are both anal and unhelpful - pedantism in human form.

Lol, fair enough. More directly, your post seemed to imply that there is no difference in chance of an offer for this person between Oxford and Cambridge. I feel there may be, with increased chance for Cambridge, as applying to Oxford is entirely dependent on the BMAT result, and the person in question si already at a (very slight) disadvantage.

Besides, pedantry isn't entirely unproductive. Who knows who will read this thread and take away incorrect messages from it, if i don't make things clearer :dontknow:

Reply 84

royale_with_cheese

I think I might have seen this thread before....

Reply 85

ThisAgain

I've arrived back to 6th form this week to some very unexpected views from some staff.

My form tutor gave me a copy of an email and a application form for the 'Oxford Maths Entrance Test' programme. The email from the assistant head to my form tutor, but she (the assistant head) thinks that I am good enough to apply for Oxbridge if I wanted to. This is very encouraging for me as I wouldn't have considered applying for them before hand.

My Grades so far in AS
Maths: A
Physics: A
Chemistry: B (Will retaking the first module, which was a very poor B, to boost this up to an A)

From my grades I doubt that I would be offered a place at either Uni.

Some extra info

I'm looking at studying Maths at Uni.
I finished GCSEs in 2008, my attitude towards education was poor, so in my first year in A levels I failed Law and Psychology and I think I got an E in Maths. In the next year I tried a public services course which I dropped out off as it wasn't something I wanted to be doing. And this year I started A levels again.
My GCSE results
Maths: A
Graphics: A
Science: B,B
English Lang: B Like I said before this year, my attitude towards education was very poor.
English Lit: C
P.E: C
Electronics: C
ICT: C
Media Studies: D

If any one can give me some advise on this, I would be very grateful.
Should I seriously consider applying?
If so, which uni and if possible and college recommendations?

Thank you

(edited 12 years ago)

Reply 86

whatsername2009

Before you apply to either, go to the Oxford and Cambridge university websites and have a look at the Maths course offered at each. If you don't like the look of it, for whatever reason, don't apply. If one or both of them does appeal to you, look at the typical offer grades and think about what you're likely to get at A-level. For example, do they ask for A* grades, and if so do they specify in what subject(s)?

Then consider your GCSE grades. Oxford tend to care more about them than Cambridge, but both universities want to see that you've got good grades relative to the context in which you took the exams, e.g. your school's results for that year.

Finally, see if you can find past papers for the entrance tests. Do the papers and mark them (you should be able to get mark schemes as well). This should give you an indication of how you're likely to do in the test if you take it for real, but you can improve if you practise the relevant skills - maybe your teacher would be willing to give you extra help outside of lessons in the run up to the test.

I can't tell you if you have a chance, but if you think about it carefully you should be able to gauge whether or not it's worth applying. But remember, if you don't like the courses at Oxbridge there are plenty of other good universities out there. Don't apply just because it's Oxbridge - apply because it's the right university and course for you. That's really the best advice I can give you.

Reply 87

ThisAgain

Thank you for a quick reply, I've updated my post a little bit to include my GCSE results.

I will do some research into the course each uni offers and if it is right for me.

I have looked at the entry requirements, in a little detail, and what they require applicants to do ( Maths STEP/Interviews/Entrance test, etc....) already.

Thanks again.

Reply 88

Lilmissshortee

Why not?

Aim high (:

If you believe in yourself and work hard you stand a good chance, and even if you decide against Oxbridge- you could always try another Russel group uni with those grades

good luck!

Reply 89

swiftylol

Cambridge interview almost everyone, so aim for them as your GCSE's may stop you from oxford unless you have good contextual data to back you.

Reply 90

Philosopher-of-sorts

I would say by all means apply if you feel the course would be right for you, and you think you can meet the requirements.

However, much as I like to be positive about people's chances, you need to be realistic in that you will have to be headed towards A*A*A for Oxford and A*AA with good STEP scores for Cambridge--tests which, by all accounts, are not easy, even for those getting 95-100% in A Level Math. This is far from impossible but would be a step up from your AS performance.

On top of that, Cambridge requires at least AS Further Math (so you would need to take that on, whether at Sixth Form or independently) and both universities highly recommend the full Further Math A Level. That isn't to say you couldn't get a place at Oxford without it, but it is a relatively rare occurrence and you would have to show your mathematical ability and commitment in some other way--through further study outside of class, and a high performance on the Aptitude Test.

The last thing I want to do is discourage you. If I hadn't gotten all the support I did in aiming high I very likely wouldn't even have applied for Oxford, never mind got in. I just wanted to make clear that you are up against very high entry requirements and some very tough competition, and you need to be prepared to work incredibly hard in preparation for the admissions test/s and interviews, even to be in with a chance. I'm sure some Mathmos will be around and be able to explain in more detail the competitiveness of admissions.

(edited 12 years ago)

Reply 91

Mellete

Original post by ThisAgain

If any one can give me some advise on this, I would be very grateful.
Should I seriously consider applying?
If so, which uni and if possible and college recommendations?

Thank you

Distinguishing characteristics of Oxford's admissions system for Mathematics:

•

Candidates sit the Mathematics Admissions Test in early November

•

Following marking of the MAT, 60% of applicants are invited for interview.

•

As well as their own college, all candidates for mathematics are guaranteed at least one additional interview at a different college. Further interviews at other colleges may be requested during your time up at interview.

•

All offers given shortly before Christmas.

•

Oxford issues offers with the reasonable expectation that offer-holders will make it to Oxford (the new offer is given on the basis that the vast majority of entrants in 2010 did indeed have A*A*A), even though the offer was AAA for 2010 and 2011.

Distinguishing characteristics of Cambridge's admissions system for Mathematics:

•

Supplementary Additional Questionnaire must be completed, detailing inter alia your UMS for every sitting of every module (including resits) thus far in your A-levels

•

90% of candidates are invited for interview in December, and only at their chosen college in December.

•

Majority of offers and rejections given in early January, the rest are 'pooled'. Mathematics tutors from other colleges leaf through all the mathematics applicants in the pool, inviting those of interest for further interviews, or giving them offers outright. Pooling happens in January and February

•

On average three mathematics offers will be made for every place that Cambridge intends to fill, on the basis of statistical data from past years showing that two thirds will fail STEP.

•

Sixth-Term Entrance Papers in June

Given that if you receive an offer you will be doing a significant amount of work in June to improve upon your AS results and meet the A-level requirements, I would personally opt for Oxford.

If you excel in the MAT, some mediocre GCSEs are sure to be overlooked.

Best of luck :smile:

Reply 92

kerily

Original post by Mellete

Distinguishing characteristics of Oxford's admissions system for Mathematics:

•

Candidates sit the Mathematics Admissions Test in early November

•

Following marking of the MAT, 60% of applicants are invited for interview.

•

All offers given shortly before Christmas.

•

Distinguishing characteristics of Cambridge's admissions system for Mathematics:

•

Supplementary Additional Questionnaire must be completed, detailing inter alia your UMS for every sitting of every module (including resits) thus far in your A-levels

•

90% of candidates are invited for interview in December, and only at their chosen college in December.

•

On average three mathematics offers will be made for every place that Cambridge intends to fill, on the basis of statistical data from past years showing that two thirds will fail STEP.

•

Sixth-Term Entrance Papers in June

Out of rep, but I would have repped this otherwise.

You are significantly more likely to get an offer if you apply to Cambridge, given how much they over-offer for the standard maths course, but you're also substantially more likely to miss this offer - the STEP statistics are really quite scary, as it's a very challenging exam. If you're prepared to work very hard (and also, probably, to do a further maths A2 - if your school offers this, you will be expected to take it up) then Cambridge is your best bet, as a candidate that impresses them at interview, and is good at maths, but has poor grades, may be given an offer just on the offchance that they meet it, even if the rest of their application has holes.

That said, you are more likely to meet an Oxford offer, because A*A*A is an awful lot easier than A*AA and 1,1 on STEP II and III. Have a look at the MAT, and see what your thoughts are compared to STEP ...!

I'd personally recommend Cambridge, because your chances of getting through the first hurdle (getting an offer) are an awful lot higher. But you would have to be ready to work hard at STEP, too.

(Do apply to one of them, though - you just never know, and you have four more choices after Oxbridge :smile:

)

Reply 93

refref

Do you do further maths?

Reply 94

confusedllama

Generally the a* offer from cam is unspecific (so an a* in English would be fine if you wanted to read classics). I think they do still care about module marks for English but are perhaps not as hung up about them as for science subjects - I don't think there would be any more emphasis on them for classics as classics is, in terms of statistics, a less competitive subject.

My advice would be apply for the subject you want to do because your love of it has to shine through at interview.

That said, I was sort of in your position, but the opposite way round: I loved English and liked classics but got considerably higher ums in Latin than in English. In the end I went for English and got a place.

But then, if you want to do both classics and English, the Oxford joint honours course looks amazing and is an even split. Or you can do some Latin in the foreign lit paper in English lit at Cam.

Basically, go with your heart (and the one you've done most reading for!)
Hope this very rambling response has been in some way helpful.

Reply 95

dogmatichurricane

I can't speak for A-Levels but I took Math, Economics and Business Management at Higher Level in the IB and Oxford E&M tutors were fine with my subject choices. There is absolutely no overlap in the latter two subjects in the IB syllabus plus Business Management is highly relevant to the Management component of E&M. I know for a fact that Cambridge are quite anal about subject choices so I would suggest you stick with Oxford and do well in the TSA. That counts for a lot more than your subjects in getting an interview. But like the above posts I would recommend you to take Further Math if it's viable since a lot of the other applicants will be having it.

Reply 96

hennessybubbles

I think it does.
they still have that culture of controlling students- its a bit ridiculous that you need special permission to spend a night away from your college accommodation etc
but its not quite as bad as a boarding school- at least we dont have curfews anymore..

Reply 97

Colmans

Original post by Tsuki

Ok so I've already completed 2 A levels subjects, Maths with an A* and Economics with 88%, But in my third subject, Business Studies I ended up with a 77% in AS. I didn't use cash-in-code for Business Studies so I'm not sure if the universities will be able to see this mark or if I should mention it, will they and should I? I want to apply for the Economics degree in Cambridge or the Economics and Management degree in Oxford, I'm not sure which one to apply for. Where do I have a higher chance of being accepted? Thanks :smile:

90-95% of Economics offers at Cambridge are made to those with FM. This is much less so at Oxford where the course is less mathematical. A huge number of Economics applicants have three strong A levels plus FM & sometimes a fifth subject. Your subjects will seriously weaken your chances at Cambridge.

Average UMS for Economics are very high at Cambridge:
http://www.cai.cam.ac.uk/economics

Lastly, the courses really are very different. The Cambridge course also includes History & Politics but requires a much greater aptitude for maths than the Oxford one. It doesn't include management unless you swap into that tripos after the second year.

Reply 98

Mellete

Original post by Colmans

Economics at Cambridge and E&M at Oxford are both without doubt among the courses with the most statistical competition for places at the universities.

The OP will be obliged this year to enter the grade for each module in each subject into UCAS, whether certificated or otherwise.

So it's doubtful that picking the alternative would be much preferable... :no: