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Which Martial Arts to take up?

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    (Original post by Einheri)
    You said something to the tune of "Wing Chun > Judo". Any martial artist who isn't a Chunner would disagree. Go back to playing patty cake.
    Did you know Bruce lee's first martial art was wing chun? You cannot just dismiss a whole martial art and claim its useless.
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    (Original post by Indo-Chinese Food)
    i doubt youve ever spent any time sparring with a reasonble wing tsun chap if you make that asusmption visit any one of these and test your theory out.

    http://www.thewingchunschool.com/html/HackneyHQ.htm

    http://www.thewingchunschool.com/html/CentralLondon.htm


    http://www.kwokwingchun.co.uk/associ...n-clubs#london

    www.thewingchunschool-clapham.co.uk



    if your theory comes out well, let me know.


    Re armbars, yes i know they exist in judo (juji), as ive rolled with a judo guy - his version of an arm bar was way different from mine and had no clue how to escape
    So I can spar wing chun with them? No thanks. Have you ever seen a wing chun martial artist succeed in MMA? No, because they can't, because it's a useless martial art in real fighting. It's not even particularly like me to hate on certain arts but I can't stand it when people claim that every single martial art is as useful as another. That's utter nonsense.

    Submissions in Judo are very limited so having a good knowledge of armbars is key. The fact that the guy you rolled with didn't have very good armbar/armbar defence is more down to his skill rather than Judo being limited. Look up Ronda Rousey if you don't think Judokas know how to use armbars...
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    (Original post by Dr. Bassman)
    So I can spar wing chun with them? No thanks. Have you ever seen a wing chun martial artist succeed in MMA? No, because they can't, because it's a useless martial art in real fighting. It's not even particularly like me to hate on certain arts but I can't stand it when people claim that every single martial art is as useful as another. That's utter nonsense.

    Submissions in Judo are very limited so having a good knowledge of armbars is key. The fact that the guy you rolled with didn't have very good armbar/armbar defence is more down to his skill rather than Judo being limited. Look up Ronda Rousey if you don't think Judokas know how to use armbars...
    I dont give a toss about MMA, thats a televised refereed sport for retards like einheri who play computer games. Id rather you mentioned vale tudo or something more realistic
    You were talking about a fight - simply pointed out that you thinking you can walkup to a decent martial artist in normal situation and just throw him over your shoulder is pretty brainless.
    Like is said - go try it out - you can walk into any one of these schools and ask to spar. i guarantee you lose a few teeth trying to figure this one out.

    Judo evolved out of jujitsu so the jitsu submissions are far more varied and complex than they are in judo - so clearly on the ground a jitsu guy is going to have much better knowledge of variety of armbars and escapes than any judo guy - (let alone, ankle locks, kneebars, chokes etc etc) They guy i roled with was a purple belt judo if i remember - i had only done 18 months of JJ. But more importantly than his style, was he was quite fat and not partucularly flexible - could have pulled his shoulder out if i wanted - he didnt have a clue. and im by no means a JJ expert.
    Like i said i wouldnt hate on any recognised style, (only retards with experience infornt of a computer screen do this) because more often than not if you have trianed properly in any style, you will be able to deal with most situations.
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    that mossad one. no idea what it's called.

    the one that's just about killing people to death in the fastest, brutalest, most undignified way possible.
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    I've heard muay thai is quite effective and easy to learn. Boxing would also good and make you fitter than the other martial arts would.
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    (Original post by kingme)
    that mossad one. no idea what it's called.

    the one that's just about killing people to death in the fastest, brutalest, most undignified way possible.
    I think it's called krav maga.
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    (Original post by Indo-Chinese Food)
    I dont give a toss about MMA, thats a televised refereed sport for retards like einheri who play computer games.
    You were talking about a fight - simply pointed out that you thinking you can walkup to a decent martial artist in normal situation and just throw him over your shoulder is pretty brainless.
    Like is said - go try it out - you can walk into any one of these schools and ask to spar. i guarantee you lose a few teeth trying to figure this one out.

    Judo evolved out of jujitsu so the jitsu submissions are far more varied and complex than they are in judo - so clearly on the ground a jitsu guy is going to have much better knowledge of variety of armbars and escapes than any judo guy - (let alone, ankle locks, kneebars, chokes etc etc) They guy i roled with was a purple belt judo if i remember - i had only done 18 months of JJ. But more importantly than his style, was he was quite fat and not partucularly flexible - could have pulled his shoulder out if i wanted - he didnt have a clue. and im by no means a JJ expert.
    Like i said i wouldnt hate on any recognised style, (only retards with experience infornt of a computer screen do this) because more often than not if you have trianed properly in any style, you will be able to deal with most situations.
    MMA is the only real test of martial arts. That's why it was invented. There's no other kind of fight that removes as many external factors as MMA does. And surprise surprise, only a select few styles are actually used because others are useless. I'm a boxer/kickboxer and there's absolutely no chance in hell that any of those wing chun guys would be able to beat me in a proper fight just using their style. You're asking me to go spar in the wing chun style. Yeah, obviously they'd beat me up if I used their style but that's not how real fighting works. People just need to accept that certain styles don't work in real fighting. Sure, maybe against some drunk moron swinging punches but I could just as easily put said person in a thai clinch and finish him that way. In real fighting, with real martial artists, wing chun doesn't work.

    There's no reason that a JJ guy would have better knowledge of armbars. Groundwork may not be the focus of Judo but any skilled judo fighter would have an almost encyclopedic knowledge of armlocks and chokes. JJ in general has a more comprehensive ground game in terms of submissions but judo also involves holds which are extremely useful in real fighting. Besides, I never talked about JJ. JJ is different to judo but also extremely useful.
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    Judo>anything.
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    (Original post by Dr. Bassman)
    MMA is the only real test of martial arts. That's why it was invented. There's no other kind of fight that removes as many external factors as MMA does. And surprise surprise, only a select few styles are actually used because others are useless. I'm a boxer/kickboxer and there's absolutely no chance in hell that any of those wing chun guys would be able to beat me in a proper fight just using their style. You're asking me to go spar in the wing chun style. Yeah, obviously they'd beat me up if I used their style but that's not how real fighting works. People just need to accept that certain styles don't work in real fighting. Sure, maybe against some drunk moron swinging punches but I could just as easily put said person in a thai clinch and finish him that way. In real fighting, with real martial artists, wing chun doesn't work.

    There's no reason that a JJ guy would have better knowledge of armbars. Groundwork may not be the focus of Judo but any skilled judo fighter would have an almost encyclopedic knowledge of armlocks and chokes. JJ in general has a more comprehensive ground game in terms of submissions but judo also involves holds which are extremely useful in real fighting. Besides, I never talked about JJ. JJ is different to judo but also extremely useful.
    No MMA was invented for tv by the US networks for fat morons to watch in between playing computer games who have no concept of martial arts. There has been full contact competiton betweeen different styles for decades before "MMA" was introduced in hjapan, south korea, brazil etc etc.

    Crap like the UFC is a joke to a proper martial artist because they are so many rules and restrictions ( as there are in competitive judo) and where sweaty men get 'points' for lieing on top of each other for a s long as possible. I would only ever watch a vale tudo event as a more accurate representation of inter-martial arts competiton - proper full contact sparring wouldnt last for more than a few minutes before one decent shot was landed or a limb broke -unlike MMA where they roll around for 15 mins so that advertisers can get they moneys worth.

    In proper fight scenario wing chun is perfectly useful, so long as the practicer is a cabable person - particualrly in close quraters where most fights end up. You will practice throwing combination punches with great speed - much like tradition western boxing. normally i dont refer to youtube but this a half decent clip of wing tsun fc sparring of a 'reasnable standard'

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kD47C...eature=related

    like i said you dont have to take my word for it you can go stand in front of one of them and see what happens. I also spar muay thai once a week - i beleive that its useful to learn as much as possible - i wouldnt say that one is better than the other - but certainly either has the capability to beat the other depending on how good/quick/powerful eaches representative is.
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    (Original post by Indo-Chinese Food)
    No MMA was invented for tv by the US networks for fat morons to watch in between playing computer games who have no concept of martial arts. There has been full contact competiton betweeen different styles for decades before "MMA" was introduced in hjapan, south korea, brazil etc etc.

    Crap like the UFC is a joke to a proper martial artist because they are so many rules and restrictions ( as there are in competitive judo) and where sweaty men get 'points' for lieing on top of each other for a s long as possible. I would only ever watch a vale tudo event as a more accurate representation of inter-martial arts competiton - proper full contact sparring wouldnt last for more than a few minutes before one decent shot was landed or a limb broke -unlike MMA where they roll around for 15 mins so that advertisers can get they moneys worth.

    In proper fight scenario wing chun is perfectly useful, so long as the practicer is a cabable person - particualrly in close quraters where most fights end up. You will practice throwing combination punches with great speed - much like tradition western boxing. normally i dont refer to youtube but this a half decent clip of wing tsun fc sparring of a 'reasnable standard'

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kD47C...eature=related

    like i said you dont have to take my word for it you can go stand in front of one of them and see what happens. I also spar muay thai once a week - i beleive that its useful to learn as much as possible - i wouldnt say that one is better than the other - but certainly either has the capability to beat the other depending on how good/quick/powerful eaches representative is.
    MMA wasn't even particularly popular when it was first invented. It's basically just the evolution of vale tudo with more rules so that fighters don't get badly injured/killed. I know you're not an MMA fan and so have absolutely zero knowledge of it but it's real fighting, not this nonsense you keep posting.

    Also, that video is fake lol. Sorry to break it to you but it's absolutely embarrassing that you would try to back up a martial art using a video with choreographed sequences.

    Wing Chun isn't useful because when fighting for real it doesn't hold up.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyhsDZna6AE

    THIS is real fighting.
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    (Original post by Dr. Bassman)
    MMA wasn't even particularly popular when it was first invented. It's basically just the evolution of vale tudo with more rules so that fighters don't get badly injured/killed. I know you're not an MMA fan and so have absolutely zero knowledge of it but it's real fighting, not this nonsense you keep posting.

    Also, that video is fake lol. Sorry to break it to you but it's absolutely embarrassing that you would try to back up a martial art using a video with choreographed sequences.

    Wing Chun isn't useful because when fighting for real it doesn't hold up.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyhsDZna6AE

    THIS is real fighting.
    I have watched plenty of mma live as well as broadcast, and i know plenty about it. Its the most watered down version of martial arts there is. But there is a big market for this rubbish amoungst spotty teenagers that like listening to gangsta rap, heavy metal and watching half naked men sweat.

    As much as i like Silva, i also know he laughs at the UFC and takes their money without breaking a sweat - he toys with his opponents in that competiton which mkes for a farcial bout. I dont blame him its easy money for him and he doesnt have to worry about getting hurt

    The clip is real sparring- although it is for the purposes of demonstrating and they are pulling thier punches and kicks as can be seen clearly as i said it was reasonable standard. not full on. in proper full FC wing tsun they wouldnt bother with head guards either. Again like i said you dont have to take my word for it, go along to the Hckney wing tsun school and ask for a demonstration, i know two of the instructers there, ill put in a word for you if youre up for it Somehow i dont think so though
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    (Original post by Indo-Chinese Food)
    I have watched plenty of mma live as well as broadcast, and i know plenty about it. Its the most watered down version of martial arts there is. But there is a big market for this rubbish amoungst spotty teenagers that like listening to gangsta rap, heavy metal and watching half naked men sweat.

    As much as i like Silva, i also know he laughs at the UFC and takes their money without breaking a sweat - he toys with his opponents in that competiton which mkes for a farcial bout. I dont blame him its easy money for him and he doesnt have to worry about getting hurt

    The clip is real sparring- although it is for the purposes of demonstrating and they are pulling thier punches and kicks as can be seen clearly as i said it was reasonable standard. not full on. in proper full FC wing tsun they wouldnt bother with head guards either. Again like i said you dont have to take my word for it, go along to the Hckney wing tsun school and ask for a demonstration, i know two of the instructers there, ill put in a word for you if youre up for it Somehow i dont think so though
    Sorry, lol, you clearly don't know anything about MMA if you think that's what it's about. MMA isn't watered down. Olympians, world champions etc. all compete in MMA and are well known in their respective martial arts as champions.

    Silva doesn't get an easy ride always. You'd know that if you saw him fight Chael Sonnen. He was hit hundreds of times and totally dominated in the grappling.

    The clip is nonsense. You can't argue for it and then provide what's essentially play fighting. Again, you keep saying that I should try it out but that would mean I'd have to be fighting with their rules. I'm not saying the moves wouldn't hurt, just that in a real fight they wouldn't work, hence why no one from MMA uses it.
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    (Original post by Dr. Bassman)
    Sorry, lol, you clearly don't know anything about MMA if you think that's what it's about. MMA isn't watered down. Olympians, world champions etc. all compete in MMA and are well known in their respective martial arts as champions.

    Silva doesn't get an easy ride always. You'd know that if you saw him fight Chael Sonnen. He was hit hundreds of times and totally dominated in the grappling.

    The clip is nonsense. You can't argue for it and then provide what's essentially play fighting. Again, you keep saying that I should try it out but that would mean I'd have to be fighting with their rules. I'm not saying the moves wouldn't hurt, just that in a real fight they wouldn't work, hence why no one from MMA uses it.
    I know all about it, i watched UFC1 and 2 years back (which were the best ones) and Ive seen most of Silvas fights in the ufc, he was barely challenged in a any of them - i think i watched one where he was spanking the other super poweful mma fighter on the backside and laughing. even in this bout you refer to , he was just being a lazy showboater in standing and trading wild haymakers for the benefit of the rednecks on the crowd. Shows how much respect he has for the standard of the UFC.
    If he was at all challeneged in a proper fight with a skilled martial artist he wouldnt stand toe to toe with anyone, he would move laterally and throw fast combos and then proab end it with a quick submission - which is exactly what he did do in the 2nd round when the other guy sat down on his backside like a drunk and left his leg out there to be hooked

    Professional sportman and ex olympians compete in the UFC for 1 reason alone -they earn 5 times a bout there than anywhere else. I dont begrudge them that, but doesnt mean i call them practicing martial artists. lol at you thinking ufc is a "real fight" clearly youve never experienced one.

    "you keep saying that I should try it out but that would mean I'd have to be fighting with their rules. I'm not saying the moves wouldn't hurt, just that in a real fight they wouldn't work"

    FYI there are no "their rules " in Wing Tsun, the principle is the same as pretty much any proper martial art - to defend yourself by inflicting as much pain to your attacker in the quickest time possible. Not oil yourself up and prance around an octagon to thrill rednecks and lonely teenagers so advertisers can sell them t shirts and x-box games with all their favourite characters included.
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    (Original post by Indo-Chinese Food)
    I know all about it, i watched UFC1 and 2 years back (which were the best ones) and Ive seen most of Silvas fights in the ufc, he was barely challenged in a any of them - i think i watched one where he was spanking the other super poweful mma fighter on the backside and laughing. even in this bout you refer to , he was just being a lazy showboater in standing and trading wild haymakers for the benefit of the rednecks on the crowd. Shows how much respect he has for the standard of the UFC.
    If he was at all challeneged in a proper fight with a skilled martial artist he wouldnt stand toe to toe with anyone, he would move laterally and throw fast combos and then proab end it with a quick submission - which is exactly what he did do in the 2nd round when the other guy sat down on his backside like a drunk and left his leg out there to be hooked
    Shows how much you know... actually in the Chael Sonnen fight he was repeatedly put on the ground and then punched hundreds of times, being dominated by an olympic level wrestler. You don't know anything about MMA, I can't even tell which fight you're referring to. Silva's game is far better than most people in most aspects, so he toys with them.

    Professional sportman and ex olympians compete in the UFC for 1 reason alone -they earn 5 times a bout there than anywhere else. I dont begrudge them that, but doesnt mean i call them practicing martial artists. lol at you thinking ufc is a "real fight" clearly youve never experienced one.
    That's only at the very highest level though. The vast majority of fighters (even in the UFC) don't get paid very much at all for their fights and work ridiculously hard for it. I mean, really? Who else do I need to bring up?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demian_Maia

    How about this guy, a world class BJJ fighter who fights in MMA but still isn't the best. MMA is where the best martial artists go because it's the only proving ground. Winning a boxing fight doesn't make you a better fighter, neither does winning a judo fight. Put someone on even ground in a ring or a cage and let them prove who has more skill, it's the only way. I wonder what would happen if you put a wing tsun guy into the octagon with any MMA fighter... doubt it would be fun.

    'real' fights, like on the street aren't a test of skill. There are too many external factors. If someone stabs me with a glass bottle and they win the fight does that make them more skilled? No. Having even ground is the only way to prove it, which is what MMA does.

    FYI there are no "their rules " in Wing Tsun, the principle is the same as pretty much any proper martial art - to defend yourself by inflicting as much pain to your attacker in the quickest time possible. Not oil yourself up and prance around an octagon to thrill rednecks and lonely teenagers so advertisers can sell them t shirts and x-box games with all their favourite characters included.
    So I can just go in there and use my kickboxing with them? Doubt it. Also, the fact that you feel the need to insult MMA fans (and hate on video games for some bizarre reasons) makes it pretty clear that you don't actually have anything meaningful to say against the sport, just resorting to weak attacks. It wouldn't matter if all the fans were 'rednecks' or 'lonely teenagers', MMA is a legit sport (and oiling the fighters up is banned).
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    (Original post by Dr. Bassman)
    Shows how much you know... actually in the Chael Sonnen fight he was repeatedly put on the ground and then punched hundreds of times, being dominated by an olympic level wrestler. You don't know anything about MMA, I can't even tell which fight you're referring to. Silva's game is far better than most people in most aspects, so he toys with them.



    That's only at the very highest level though. The vast majority of fighters (even in the UFC) don't get paid very much at all for their fights and work ridiculously hard for it. I mean, really? Who else do I need to bring up?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demian_Maia

    How about this guy, a world class BJJ fighter who fights in MMA but still isn't the best. MMA is where the best martial artists go because it's the only proving ground. Winning a boxing fight doesn't make you a better fighter, neither does winning a judo fight. Put someone on even ground in a ring or a cage and let them prove who has more skill, it's the only way. I wonder what would happen if you put a wing tsun guy into the octagon with any MMA fighter... doubt it would be fun.

    'real' fights, like on the street aren't a test of skill. There are too many external factors. If someone stabs me with a glass bottle and they win the fight does that make them more skilled? No. Having even ground is the only way to prove it, which is what MMA does.



    So I can just go in there and use my kickboxing with them? Doubt it. Also, the fact that you feel the need to insult MMA fans (and hate on video games for some bizarre reasons) makes it pretty clear that you don't actually have anything meaningful to say against the sport, just resorting to weak attacks. It wouldn't matter if all the fans were 'rednecks' or 'lonely teenagers', MMA is a legit sport (and oiling the fighters up is banned).


    'real' fights, like on the street aren't a test of skill. There are too many external factors. If someone stabs me with a glass bottle and they win the fight does that make them more skilled? No. Having even ground is the only way to prove it, which is what MMA does.
    "

    You will find this is exactly what martial arts were designed for - to efficinetly defend yourself from an attack. a bottle to the head, a knife etc. Not to prance around an octagon. The precise reason i dont want to be bear hugging a guy trying to throw him over my shoulder or and rolling on the floor with him for 10 mins - i have no idea what he has got in his hand/pocket etc More opportunities to get shanked tbh. There are far more eifficient ways to make safe this situation
    Ask any wing tsun teacher to demonstrate this Martial Art principle to you. You seem other wise clueless.

    You have demonstrated perfectly the difference of a martial artist and the sportsmen that fights in the UFC. The OP didnt ask what style should he do to compete evenly with a guy in his jocket shorts in an octagon with a referee and a bunch of toothless morons watching. He asked about a good martial art to learn. The answer to that is varied, depending on his capability etc.

    Im not denying UFC is a "legit sport" but it is exactly that- a sport. I enjoy watching all sorts of sports- i dont pretend any of them are martial arts.

    I wasnt having a go at computer games, i was having a go at the computer gaming morons that learn about 'martial arts' performing a hip throw on "UFC Superstars on Xbox" Try performing one when some nutter has his thumb in your eye and trying to bite your ear off . Its not pleasant but then a proper fight is anything but pleasant just to warn you- your theories of judo throws may not play out like you thought in real life.
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    (Original post by Indo-Chinese Food)

    'real' fights, like on the street aren't a test of skill. There are too many external factors. If someone stabs me with a glass bottle and they win the fight does that make them more skilled? No. Having even ground is the only way to prove it, which is what MMA does.
    "

    You will find this is exactly what martial arts were designed for - to efficinetly defend yourself from an attack. a bottle to the head, a knife etc. Not to prance around an octagon. The precise reason i dont want to be bear hugging a guy trying to throw him over my shoulder or and rolling on the floor with him for 10 mins - i have no idea what he has got in his hand/pocket etc More opportunities to get shanked tbh. There are far more eifficient ways to make safe this situation
    Ask any wing tsun teacher to demonstrate this Martial Art principle to you. You seem other wise clueless.
    But in a real fight with someone who has trained in martial arts like boxing, you'll lose, straight up. Likewise, anyone in the street trying to fight a boxer will most likely lose.

    You have demonstrated perfectly the difference of a martial artist and the sportsmen that fights in the UFC. The OP didnt ask what style should he do to compete evenly with a guy in his jocket shorts in an octagon with a referee and a bunch of toothless morons watching. He asked about a good martial art to learn. The answer to that is varied, depending on his capability etc.
    I'm not replying to the OP anymore.

    Im not denying UFC is a "legit sport" but it is exactly that- a sport. I enjoy watching all sorts of sports- i dont pretend any of them are martial arts.
    Oh LOL, so your video showing a fake display of 'fighting' is more of a martial art than this...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-hVAkSVN2c

    This is true martial arts, real fighting. No external factors, it's skill vs skill, no chance involved.

    I wasnt having a go at computer games, i was having a go at the computer gaming morons that learn about 'martial arts' performing a hip throw on "UFC Superstars on Xbox" Try performing one when some nutter has his thumb in your eye and trying to bite your ear off . Its not pleasant but then a proper fight is anything but pleasant just to warn you- your theories of judo throws may not play out like you thought in real life.
    I don't care for 'real life' fighting. It doesn't interest me and I can avoid it, and if I can't my boxing and judo is more than enough. I'm interested in real fighting, between true martial artists, not handslapping. The simple fact is that if you put a wing tsun fighter against a boxer or wrestler or judoka or whatever, the wing tsun guy will lose everytime.
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    (Original post by Dr. Bassman)
    But in a real fight with someone who has trained in martial arts like boxing, you'll lose, straight up. Likewise, anyone in the street trying to fight a boxer will most likely lose. .
    I spar with boxers on a regualr basis. Its a great style. Has no answer to Jitsu though.


    (Original post by Dr. Bassman)
    I'm not replying to the OP anymore. .

    The OP was exactly what we were talking about- your comical comment that a judo throw was enough to stop you getting knocked out by a wingtsun pratcitioner - in a fight scenario- not a contrived UFC 'bout'. You are rather predictbley changing your tune now. all the time

    (Original post by Dr. Bassman)
    Oh LOL, so your video showing a fake display of 'fighting' is more of a martial art than this...
    I did say im loathed to use youtube clips to make a point - genuinely decent wing tsun practioners dont post clips of themselves sparring fully on as readily as MMA "enthusiasts"
    As i said -seeing as you are so confident- take your judo and boxing style over to hackney- you can prove the point outright, instead of just talking out of your backside. It will clarify to you exactly what im talking about. Or maybe somewhere nearer for you, they have affiliate schools accross the country - PM me which city you are nearest.
    You speak from a complete lack of real experience - the biggest problem with martial arts today is that has been invaded for years by morons who watch the ufc.


    (Original post by Dr. Bassman)
    I don't care for 'real life' fighting. It doesn't interest me and I can avoid it, and if I can't my boxing and judo is more than enough. I'm interested in real fighting, between true martial artists, not handslapping. The simple fact is that if you put a wing tsun fighter against a boxer or wrestler or judoka or whatever, the wing tsun guy will lose everytime.
    UFC isnt real fighting- half the techniques i learnt as a teenager wouldnt even be legal in a modern UFC fight - but they are martial arts technques that have been taught for 500 years. You can kid yourself as much as you like - but your not convincing.
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    (Original post by Indo-Chinese Food)
    I spar with boxers on a regualr basis. Its a great style. Has no answer to Jitsu though.
    Ok.

    The OP was exactly what we were talking about- your comical comment that a judo throw was enough to stop you getting knocked out by a wingtsun pratcitioner - in a fight scenario- not a contrived UFC 'bout'. You are rather predictbley changing your tune now. all the time
    Realistically no wing tsun fighter would knock me out in a real fight. I can kickbox and grapple. I'm not some drunk guy throwing wild attacks. This is where wing tsun is a fail. It's not meant for real fighting, it's self-defence but I can defend myself with my boxing, no need for hand slapping. This is why there are no wing tsun fighters in MMA, because it's not practical against skilled opponents.

    I did say im loathed to use youtube clips to make a point - genuinely decent wing tsun practioners dont post clips of themselves sparring fully on as readily as MMA "enthusiasts"
    Rubbish, lol. Do you realise how many videos there are of kickboxing sparring, judo fights etc? If you're trying to make wing tsun sound more legit just because no one films it then I give up.

    As i said -seeing as you are so confident- take your judo and boxing style over to hackney- you can prove the point outright, instead of just talking out of your backside. It will clarify to you exactly what im talking about. Or maybe somewhere nearer for you, they have affiliate schools accross the country - PM me which city you are nearest.
    I saw the site, there's one about five minutes away from me. The times clash with kickboxing training and frankly, I have no real desire to waltz in, demand that I fight some of them and pay 10 pounds for it. I'm not talking out of my backside. I'm talking about real fighting.

    You speak from a complete lack of real experience - the biggest problem with martial arts today is that has been invaded for years by morons who watch the ufc.
    Lack of experience? Lolwut. I've been doing martial arts for ages. Boxing, kickboxing, muay thai, judo, wrestling and BJJ. The thing is, I only intend to train for real fighting because I want to fight real fighters, not drunk people. I was practising martial arts before I started watching MMA. I was attracted to it because it's a demonstration of true skill. It's just two people fighting, no external factors.

    You insulting the MMA fanbase just shows your ignorance about it all (well everything you say does >_>). There's plenty of intelligent fans with experience in martial arts.

    UFC isnt real fighting- half the techniques i learnt as a teenager wouldnt even be legal in a modern UFC fight - but they are martial arts technques that have been taught for 500 years. You can kid yourself as much as you like - but your not convincing.
    Such as? MMA has evolved so that fighters don't take serious injuries out of fights. That's the way it has to be. That said, it's still the closest thing to a real fight because there's no (or very few, such as rounds etc.) external factors. What the hell is real fighting? If we got into a fight irl and I had a gun, is that a real fight? What use is wing tsun now?

    Real fighting is just two people on even ground, with no outside influence. That's why wing tsun will never work in MMA because against a boxer they will be knocked out, against a wrestler they will be GnP'd out and against a BJJ fighter they will be submitted. The simple fact is that if you drop a wing tsun fighter into a cage with an MMA fighter they will lose every single time.
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    (Original post by Dr. Bassman)
    Realistically no wing tsun fighter would knock me out in a real fight. I can kickbox and grapple. I'm not some drunk guy throwing wild attacks. This is where wing tsun is a fail. It's not meant for real fighting, it's self-defence but I can defend myself with my boxing, no need for hand slapping. This is why there are no wing tsun fighters in MMA, because it's not practical against skilled opponents.

    I saw the site, there's one about five minutes away from me. The times clash with kickboxing training and frankly, I have no real desire to waltz in, demand that I fight some of them and pay 10 pounds for it. I'm not talking out of my backside. I'm talking about real fighting.


    lol the fact that yout think they 'slap each other' jsut demonstrates your ignorance on martial arts. If they do so in doing a form or 'lok sau' its only for practicallty. In sparring they use a proper closed fist for most strikes, as well as low kicks and elbow stirkes . These guys also train clinch work and ground defence too, or didnt you know that? they also learn to defend a strike and defend at the same timeI have seen my old sifu break a well trained boxers hand by timing his elbow to hit the guys stright jab.
    A good boxer can beat a wing tsun practioner - and vice versa, that was my point from day one. Ive also seen decent kempo and karate guys and krav maga too that i have sparred with. In your tiny little ufc world you will have no knowledge of what a martial artist is capable of.
    Like i said , if you are close to the that school, PM where and when, i can ask one the guys to see if you can stop by toward the end of a class for a spar, there will be no charge for that. Ultimatly you will remain clueless until you get some first hand experience




    (Original post by Dr. Bassman)
    Such as? MMA has evolved so that fighters don't take serious injuries out of fights. That's the way it has to be. That said, it's still the closest thing to a real fight because there's no (or very few, such as rounds etc.) external factors. What the hell is real fighting? If we got into a fight irl and I had a gun, is that a real fight? What use is wing tsun now?


    If you 'had a gun' there wouldnt be a fight - martial arts is about logic. You wouldnt be fighting unless you had to. Unless you were close enough to get to it, anybody with more than two braincells would leg it. What would be the UFC method to deal with gun - any different? LOL
    MAybe theres a special UCF move you can pull out from the X box



    (Original post by Dr. Bassman)
    Real fighting is just two people on even ground, with no outside influence. That's why wing tsun will never work in MMA because against a boxer they will be knocked out, against a wrestler they will be GnP'd out and against a BJJ fighter they will be submitted. The simple fact is that if you drop a wing tsun fighter into a cage with an MMA fighter they will lose every single time.
    No, thats a staged sporting event - in a fight two parties are rarely evenly matched - martial arts is about making the use of any advantage that comes to hand - your techniques included. sometimes the guy is bigger than you, sometimes you are bigger - thats a fight - not a coreagated sporting event.If you have the opportunity to avoid conflict, then you take it - if you dont you defend yourself as severly as possible. ( im not going into detail for you - visit a porper martial arts class) It doesnt make good tv.


    MMA is about rolling around and sweating within a set of pre-determined boundaries at the behest of a referee. It makes broadcastable tv on which advertisers can make money of idiots.

    Most proper martial artisits have no interest in being dropped into a cage half naked and follow a script of rules- they arnt animals - the idea would be alien to most. The only thing that convinces some guys to do so is money. Thats up to them.

    Ive explained over the internent as best i can, i dont wish to waste anymore time on the dimwitted. Pls do test your theories in the real world, if you are 5 mins away from the school- then we can see if your typing confidence and knowledge of wing tsun translates to the real world.
    If not then theres not much point listening to what you have to say anymore.
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    (Original post by Indo-Chinese Food)
    lol the fact that yout think they 'slap each other' jsut demonstrates your ignorance on martial arts. If they do so in doing a form or 'lok sau' its only for practicallty. In sparring they use a proper closed fist for most strikes, as well as low kicks and elbow stirkes . These guys also train clinch work and ground defence too, or didnt you know that? they also learn to defend a strike and defend at the same timeI have seen my old sifu break a well trained boxers hand by timing his elbow to hit the guys stright jab.
    The hand-slapping was a joke, mostly. Catching people with elbows is a valid technique but it's not limited to wing tsun. It was pretty big in old school muay thai but eventually it stopped being practical because people were getting hit too quickly and not able to properly defend themselves trying to block punches with their elbows.

    A good boxer can beat a wing tsun practioner - and vice versa, that was my point from day one. Ive also seen decent kempo and karate guys and krav maga too that i have sparred with. In your tiny little ufc world you will have no knowledge of what a martial artist is capable of.
    Utter nonsense. When has a wing tsun practioner ever stepped into an MMA fight? Never, it doesn't happen because in an even situation wing tsun isn't practical. Your prejudice against MMA seems to lie in its commercial side (or obsession with 'half naked men rolling around for 15 minutes'). The fact is that anyone from wing tsun wouldn't be able to handle themselves in a cage with another well-trained fighter. That's why it's never happened. Unless of course you can explain otherwise...?

    Like i said , if you are close to the that school, PM where and when, i can ask one the guys to see if you can stop by toward the end of a class for a spar, there will be no charge for that. Ultimatly you will remain clueless until you get some first hand experience
    Alternatively you can provide video proof of you sparring MMA, using your wing tsun skills. I have no intention to try out any new places, but that's for personal reasons.

    If you 'had a gun' there wouldnt be a fight - martial arts is about logic. You wouldnt be fighting unless you had to. Unless you were close enough to get to it, anybody with more than two braincells would leg it. What would be the UFC method to deal with gun - any different? LOL
    MAybe theres a special UCF move you can pull out from the X box
    It wouldn't be? Who says? Do you make the rules now? How about I say that two guys street-fighting isn't a real fight? What's the difference? Also, MMA =/= UFC, MMA goes far beyond UFC. Anyway, I never said that MMA would be useful if someone put a gun to your head, just as wing tsun wouldn't be. But if someone shoots at you it's still a fight, same if someone has a sword. You've set this bizarre boundary up where people fighting in the street is a real fight (because it includes external factors) but as soon as you bring in a different (albeit more extreme) external factor it's not a fight? There's no test of skill at all. MMA is all about who has more skill and is ultimately the better fighter. Self-defence is a whole different thing. Maybe, wing tsun is useful for self-defence. I don't know how far it is, nor do I actually care. All I care about is that in a real test of skill, it doesn't hold up.

    No, thats a staged sporting event - in a fight two parties are rarely evenly matched - martial arts is about making the use of any advantage that comes to hand - your techniques included. sometimes the guy is bigger than you, sometimes you are bigger - thats a fight - not a coreagated sporting event.If you have the opportunity to avoid conflict, then you take it - if you dont you defend yourself as severly as possible. ( im not going into detail for you - visit a porper martial arts class) It doesnt make good tv.
    Taking any advantage that comes to hand? So if I picked up a gun... that makes me a great martial artist huh? Street fights are max. 10% skill. Both are 'real' fights. MMA is simply about removing as many external factors as possible. The difference between them is that MMA is a far, far greater test of skill and ability against someone else who has skill and ability. Wing tsun is about defending yourself from someone with no skill, with the inclusion of a million external factors.

    MMA is about rolling around and sweating within a set of pre-determined boundaries at the behest of a referee. It makes broadcastable tv on which advertisers can make money of idiots.
    And wing tsun is a hand-slapping mcdojo art. You talk so much nonsense about how I'm ignorant of martial arts and then you pull out something like that? Newsflash, MMA goes back a long way. The UFC haven't actually been making a profit for a very long time at all. Amateur MMA and small time MMA orgs don't make huge amount of money. You're so intent on pointing out its new found commercial side that you can't actually look at it for what it fundamentally is. What you say about MMA could be said about most other competition martial arts. BJJ is just people rolling around in their pyjamas etc.

    Most proper martial artisits have no interest in being dropped into a cage half naked and follow a script of rules- they arnt animals - the idea would be alien to most. The only thing that convinces some guys to do so is money. Thats up to them.
    The motives are irrelevant. I can think of plenty of fighters who openly admit they don't like fighting (Nick Diaz for example) but that doesn't take anything away from the sport. If you knew about MMA you'd know that going into it for money is an awful idea because only the top bunch of fighters actually make big money (and even then it's tiny compared to boxing). Plus, you're discounting everyone who ever went into it before it was profitable and all the amateurs who are paid nothing (or actually pay to fight) so no, it's not about money. Also, keep that 'proper martial artists' out of here. MMA consists of numerous olympians, and world tournament winners.

    Ive explained over the internent as best i can, i dont wish to waste anymore time on the dimwitted. Pls do test your theories in the real world, if you are 5 mins away from the school- then we can see if your typing confidence and knowledge of wing tsun translates to the real world.
    If not then theres not much point listening to what you have to say anymore.
    I don't get involved in street fights. Not my thing, I want to fight people who train so I can be better than everyone else. I don't view martial arts as a practical thing, I've never needed to defend myself. I view martial arts as a competition, to be better than everyone else. I don't discount self-defence martial arts but to say that a wing-tsun guy could beat a boxer in a fair, even fight would just be false, You simply refuse to believe that.

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