[Pride]

(Original post by Aphotic Cosmos)
And that is precisely the problem - we are dependent on this declining, bureaucratic, increasingly insignificant marketplace and ignoring the potential of the nations of the Commonwealth, of Latin America, of Asia. That's just silly.

is leaving the EU going to solve that problem though? or just cause a lot of job losses and massively reduce the amount of exports we sell...

[Tamora]

(Original post by Llamageddon)
hence why I quoted him rather than you!

Oops, I'm so used to being in out in the cold, whenever someone says "you haven't ..." I automatically assume they mean me and get mad!

We've gained concessions before and other countries have managed to effectively squirm their way out of things. Cameron might be muted but Osborne is already laying groundwork with terms like "multi-speed europe".

I have little time for Osborne, and I'm sick of politicians vague promises, and a multi-speed Europe isn't good enough for me anyway. It implies we'll all get to the same place in the end.

Just a word of caution to the "in/out ref" supporters. Are you sure you would win it? Britain may well be eurosceptic but big business overwhelmingly supports EU membership which would give the staying in campaign the financial backing and credibility it would need in order to win. And what if it's lost? Imagine what the EU would do with that sort of mandate

No, I'm not sure the "out" side would win, but the public is not nearly so naive or so trusting of the political establishment as it once was, and mainstream media sources no longer control the information people receive as they did at the time of the last in/out referendum. I'd also want clear ground rules about air time for each side and limits on spending. I'd expect dirty tricks would still play their part though. Whatever the result of any referendum, people should have the choice.

[Llamageddon]

(Original post by Pride)
is leaving the EU going to solve that problem though? or just cause a lot of job losses and massively reduce the amount of exports we sell...

speaking as somebody who doesn't think we should leave the EU...

do you seriously think they would stop importing our stuff if we left?

[frankayak]

Pragmatism people. The only way to change European laws is to get in their and change them and believe it or not there are EU nations who would support us. The EU gives us access to a wide market and a strong political force in the world and I don't want to become a isolated, awkward state 50 miles east of Washington. Europe is our home, the EU is our family.

[YorkieLad101]

(Original post by frankayak)
Pragmatism people. The only way to change European laws is to get in their and change them and believe it or not there are EU nations who would support us. The EU gives us access to a wide market and a strong political force in the world and I don't want to become a isolated, awkward state 50 miles east of Washington. Europe is our home, the EU is our family.

AFAIC Germany an Scandinavia are our only family

are the Spanish, the Ities an the Polacks our brothers and sisters? No, only the Germans an the Scandinavians are!

[Lewis :D]

(Original post by YorkieLad101)
AFAIC Germany an Scandinavia are our only family

are the Spanish, the Ities an the Polacks our brothers and sisters? No, only the Germans an the Scandinavians are!

What has that got to do with it? Ethnic groups? If that's the case Northern Ireland, Wales and Scotland shouldn't be a part of the UK as we all have Celtic roots whereas England's is Germanic. Are you seriously that thick? Basing trade upon ethnicity

[YorkieLad101]

(Original post by Lewis :D)
What has that got to do with it? Ethnic groups? If that's the case Northern Ireland, Wales and Scotland shouldn't be a part of the UK as we all have Celtic roots whereas England's is Germanic. Are you seriously that thick? Basing trade upon ethnicity

bein part Celtic i dont mind the Celts, but we should have far closer ties with our Germanic an Celtic brothers an sisters

[TheDubs]

As long as Britain use's its power to prevent further power dealings that make the EU more powerful, then no, and also as long as it doesnt enter the Euro (Which I doubt it ever will know following the 'Eurozone crisis'. Entering the euro puttings billions of your cash at steak and resigns soveriegn power. The benefits of not joining are being richly enjoyed now. If the UK was in the Euro Billions more than we've already payed over would of been gone by now given we're a 'primary state'.

[chefdave]

I'm quite surprised people thought the EU would work anyway. The supposed advantages of the EU are that it facilitates free trade and allows the peoples of Europe to travel freely in each others countries, but these basic freedoms would be available anyway if it wasn't for government restrictions. So in any other words we've created more government to help solve the problems too much government creates. It was never going to end well.

[ShadowConspiracy]

Yes we should leave the EUSSR

[domino0806]

No. The EU is made of sex

[SHodgkinson]

(Original post by Tonn)
Please provide an independant source of notable authority stating that it would be possible for Britain to remain in a common market without remaining in the EU.

here is one, i have been researching for my social science degree and found this quote feel free to check up on it : Better than that — and here, at last, there is something to be said for the 2007 Lisbon Treaty — such a free trade agreement would not be a matter of conjecture. Article 50 of Lisbon requires the EU to make a trade arrangement with any nation deciding to leave it. (Heffer, 2011, 1)

[someguy113]

A tiny country with a population of 60 million that doesn't manufacture that much is not going to compete or have any weight on the world stage by itself. Britain will end up being another Australia.

[chrisawhitmore]

(Original post by someguy113)
A tiny country with a population of 60 million that doesn't manufacture that much is not going to compete or have any weight on the world stage by itself. Britain will end up being another Australia.

So we'll have a higher GDP per capita, less than half the debt to GDP, the second best HDI quality of life score in the world, lower inflation, higher GDP growth, no negative outlook on our credit rating, a smaller deficit in terms of GDP, an overall trade surplus and the ability to set our own laws.

Sounds good to me.

[albanian]

how will my albanian brothers and sisters eat if they do?

[chrisawhitmore]

(Original post by albanian)
how will my albanian brothers and sisters eat if they do?

I'd start by keeping Albania out of the EU if you want them to eat. Look at what's happening to the Greeks.

[albanian]

(Original post by chrisawhitmore)
I'd start by keeping Albania out of the EU if you want them to eat. Look at what's happening to the Greeks.

True i supposed. When foreign people move into new territories they always try to change that country in their own.

People don't just abandon their culture, they have an emotional attachment to it. So they seek to impose it on other cultures to suit themselves.

[zaliack]

(Original post by SHodgkinson)
here is one, i have been researching for my social science degree and found this quote feel free to check up on it : Better than that — and here, at last, there is something to be said for the 2007 Lisbon Treaty — such a free trade agreement would not be a matter of conjecture. Article 50 of Lisbon requires the EU to make a trade arrangement with any nation deciding to leave it. (Heffer, 2011, 1)

There is no Article 50 of the 'Lisbon Treaty', what you are talking about is Art 50 TEU, but it doesn't necessarly require the EU to make trade agreements etc, it just requires them to negotiate a deal for them leaving - which could very much be "We agree that you should leave. We don't receive any benefit from you, so we hereby conclude this agreement"

[Patriot Rich]

I'd like a gradual withdrawal to try and maintain relations as far as possible. Refusing to hand over any new powers and re negotiating where possible. Eventually we'll get to the point where the organisation works for us once again, as the primarily economic union should be, or we leave hopefully fairly amiably.

[Morgsie]

(Original post by zaliack)
There is no Article 50 of the 'Lisbon Treaty', what you are talking about is Art 50 TEU, but it doesn't necessarly require the EU to make trade agreements etc, it just requires them to negotiate a deal for them leaving - which could very much be "We agree that you should leave. We don't receive any benefit from you, so we hereby conclude this agreement"

The European Parliament has got to consent.