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Even more nervous about going on my placement now... it'll be scary enough on the first day without the worry of people being rude to you. :frown:
Reply 81
Original post by polldoll
It seems very silly, but sending students into take a history from a patient over meal times, means the patient misses the one chance of a hot meal they may get.

This is in hospital. Be doing them a favour...
Original post by No Future
Lol.


point proven
Reply 83
Original post by Kinkerz
This is in hospital. Be doing them a favour...


haha you'd think.. But still, some hot "food" better than cold, congealed "food" or crappy sandwich!
Px
Original post by Seher
Just to throw this out there... why is it that doctors/med students are supposed to be so carefully humble about their profession? I understand that they shouldn't be arrogant or rude about their salary etc. but surely in a personal sense anybody who chooses ANY career and is as motivated to pursue it as doctors have to be these days (not unlike other top paid professions) WOULD believe that other professionals have reason to be jealous of them because they think their job is the best out there, if they didn't they would've picked something else?




the problem is when you get Junior doctors especially Foundation Doctors, but also to a degree Core Trainees / ST1 +2 who come over all

' I'm the Doctor and i'm in charge'

' I'm a doctor and ultimately responsible for the outcome of every patient I clap eyes on ' ( maybe when your balls have dropped sonny and you've got a CCT )

' What do you mean you won't take an (illegal) verbal prescription and i've got to come and actually review the patient'

' why have you bleeped me 3 times in the last hour ????' ( when they finally deign to return your pages )
Original post by ilickbatteries
I imagine some are.

When you're working around someone who is (or is going to be) much more qualified, and earn a lot more money, it'd be hard not to be.

I work in a pharmacy and it's hard not to be jealous of pharmacists who do surprisingly little work for the amount of money they get. Though, of course, part of that large wage is a huge weight of responsibility.


I don't know where you get the impression that Doctors with their Paired Ordinary degrees are 'much more qualified' than other health professionals ....

and earning significant money as a doctor is assuming you can secure a consultancy (even with a CCT ) or a partnership (in a GP practice)
Original post by graemematt
No way! Nurses get breaks on rotas, they see patients more often than doctors (to administer drugs/set up drips etc etc), they "generally" have less clinical responsibility, and short of being a consultant/GP, they get paid something near to doctors during the first 5-10 years of postgraduate training.

I think they're quite happy being nurses really...



Nurses rarely have 'less' clinical responsibility for their patients than Doctors do, especially with respect to junior Doctors and extra especially juniors on call ...
Reply 87
Original post by zippyRN
Nurses rarely have 'less' clinical responsibility for their patients than Doctors do, especially with respect to junior Doctors and extra especially juniors on call ...



If we are called to review a patient on call, how do we have less clinical responsibility than the nurse?
Original post by haleem
When I was working as a HCA during my gap year, I would feel uncomfortable around some of the nurses -who were a bit like this -> :plz2: with me :frown:

The others were lovely though :smile:


the medical student HCA is a strange creature

given the problems that exist between HCS and RNs where HCAs seem to think they are equal in 'rank' to RNs despite their job descriptions clearly stating they are to take direction from the RNs ...

there are HCAs who genuinely believe that they 'do everything RNs apart from give medications'....

there are also HCAs who ignorance or not knowing what they don't know put patients at risk by not taking instruction from the RNs who are there to direct and delegate work to them ...
Original post by wheelspin
Had a hospital placement last week as part of my med school course.

I am fully aware of some stuck up medical students, and try my best to be as humble as possible.
On placement I considered the nurses to be more superior in the chain than myself, a mere 2nd year student, and made that as cleaR as possible by asking questions etc anything to make sure they knew I understood the nurse was in higher authority.

HOWEVER, I was repeatedely handed comments like "Nurses practically do the doctor's job nowadays, all they do is relax".
I was reminded every 5 seconds that I'm not qualified to do such and such, while they were a fully qualified healthcare proffessional.

I see a clear split, where some nurses made me feel very welcome and assisted my learning, while others showed clear contempt for all doctors & med student.
Is it jealously

Any other doctors or med students had the same experiance?

P.S I KNOW there are more stuck up doctors than nurses.


My nurse friend says that they don't mind the trainee doctors, it's the newly qualified ones with zero experience who piss them off.

They may well direct that at you, but as long as you're nice, I'm sure they won't be too bad.
Original post by *tink*
If we are called to review a patient on call, how do we have less clinical responsibility than the nurse?


if it all goes wrong who is going to get it in the neck ... the Nurse not the SHO on call

as the Nurses didn't call a doctor in time / called the wrong speciality / grade / side of the hospital doctor ...

the Nurse that didn't give a drug illegally despite the fact that verbal orders are seldom legal , or that the trust refuses to authorise a needed PGD

even if a drug is prescribed in an emergnecy it will be the Nurse that will bare the brunt of the fallout of any problem with that drug administration ....

there are 2 people accountable 24/7 for a hospital inpatient , the nurse on duty and the named consultant.
My mum's a nurse and she practically runs the place, it'd all fall apart without them and she always use to say "Behind one doctor is five good nurses".
Original post by zippyRN
I don't know where you get the impression that Doctors with their Paired Ordinary degrees are 'much more qualified' than other health professionals ....

and earning significant money as a doctor is assuming you can secure a consultancy (even with a CCT ) or a partnership (in a GP practice)


Yeah mate, a doctor isn't more qualified than a nurse.

I mean, doctors are only like the only people allowed to prescribe without restriction, and have a wealth of medical knowledge.
Reply 93
Original post by Seher
Just to throw this out there... why is it that doctors/med students are supposed to be so carefully humble about their profession? I understand that they shouldn't be arrogant or rude about their salary etc. but surely in a personal sense anybody who chooses ANY career and is as motivated to pursue it as doctors have to be these days (not unlike other top paid professions) WOULD believe that other professionals have reason to be jealous of them because they think their job is the best out there, if they didn't they would've picked something else?

I'd expect the same from top class city lawyers, etc or anyone who's worked exceptionally hard to get where - they think its something amazing and that's why they choose it! in their eyes it is the best. I see it all the time that it's "allowed" for other science students or pharmacists to knock medics for various things, but when they do it back (in a banter sort of way) it's automatically arrogant? Why shouldn't nurses be a bit more humble too rather than just dare a med student to say the slightest thing so they can chew them up about it?

Not sure if I've explained this well lol I'm sleepy :tongue:


Noblesse oblige. (And no, that isn't an obscure medical diagnosis.)
Reply 94
Original post by dragon500uk
My mum's a nurse and she practically runs the place, it'd all fall apart without them and she always use to say "Behind one doctor is five good nurses".


I'd love to see what they'd do without us as well, you know. Two sides to every story.
Original post by zippyRN
the medical student HCA is a strange creature .

That they are
I am one
Original post by zippyRN

given the problems that exist between HCS and RNs where HCAs seem to think they are equal in 'rank' to RNs despite their job descriptions clearly stating they are to take direction from the RNs ...

there are HCAs who genuinely believe that they 'do everything RNs apart from give medications'.....


Tbf this isn't particularly limited to med student HCAs. I've met several non med student HCAs who are like this. I haven't noticed med student HCAs think this at all.
(edited 12 years ago)
Original post by zippyRN
I don't know where you get the impression that Doctors with their Paired Ordinary degrees are 'much more qualified' than other health professionals ....


So comparing a nurse and a doctor who are of equivalent grades, who has had more education and training?
I believe nurses are just as important as doctors. Without one the other don't really work as well. A hospital is a team environment and many members are involved in treating a patient. We all have our own responsibilities/job.

In terms of personal experience of nurses treating medical students poorly - I haven't experienced it yet....maybe I'm lucky, but all the nurses I have met are really friendly and helpful. I just try to be humble and I do accept the fact that I am probably the least important thing in the hospital. Nurses have a job to do and that is to take care of the patient...not medical students and I do respect the fact that they will ignore you and give you absolutely no attention whatsoever. I find it quite obvious when a nurse doesn't like students...as I believe they do avoid the students. I only approach nurses who have said "hi" to me when I get onto the ward. I avoid speaking to the nurses who have ignored me. Actually I avoid speaking to nurses in general unless I have a quick question.
Original post by Helenia
I'd love to see what they'd do without us as well, you know. Two sides to every story.


My mum's name is Helenae i think this must be fate! But yes, without the nurses nothing would get done. So no, they're not jealous - just exasperated by you doctors!!
Reply 99
Original post by dragon500uk
My mum's name is Helenae i think this must be fate! But yes, without the nurses nothing would get done. So no, they're not jealous - just exasperated by you doctors!!


That's not what I meant. I meant that while it is entirely true that our jobs would be virtually impossible without decent nurses, they wouldn't manage without us either. And can be just as exasperating.

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