[L-x]

(Original post by Genki Sudo)
That's a good argument, saying BJJ isn't better than other martial arts because running is better than using BJJ.

Logic, how does it work?

It's easier to run away if you aren't lying on the ground?

[bishbash72]

(Original post by Bobifier)
Taekwondo is probably the most ineffective martial art you will come across.

Dude, what about the NINJAZ!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PorFEO78VI

[JohnC2211]

(Original post by Einheri)
BJJ is awesome. Some styles of Karate are good others are lame - Kyokushin is great. Whatever you do don't take TKD - it's toss.

BJJ is awesome 1 v 1, but you never have that guarantee in the street. By all means take BJJ so that if a fight does go to the floor you have a better chance, but don't rely on it.

[bishbash72]

(Original post by Xarren)
Oh, and when it comes to rolling around the ground and hugging people's asses, I guess I have some experience - I'm a rugby player.

The irony is that playing rugby will teach the average person far more about fighting than most martial arts.

[Einheri]

(Original post by JohnC2211)
BJJ is awesome 1 v 1, but you never have that guarantee in the street. By all means take BJJ so that if a fight does go to the floor you have a better chance, but don't rely on it.

I also do Judo, Freestyle Wrestling and Boxing. No martial art is good against multiple attackers - those that claim that they are are lying.

[JohnC2211]

(Original post by Einheri)
I also do Judo, Freestyle Wrestling and Boxing. No martial art is good against multiple attackers - those that claim that they are are lying.

I agree, but I still maintain that you'll fare better against multiple attackers with Boxing rather than BJJ for example.

[Einheri]

(Original post by JohnC2211)
I agree, but I still maintain that you'll fare better against multiple attackers with Boxing rather than BJJ for example.

In a real fight I'd never throw hands except for body and neck shots (if you ever watch a bare knuckle boxing match you'll see that the fighters almost never hit in the head) - breaking your wrist/hand is such a huge liability and you'd be screwed if it happened. I think a huge Judo throw like Ippon Seoi-nage, Osoto Gari or Uchi Mata onto concrete would be a much safer option (safer for me - Judo is only the "gentle way" for the thrower, haha) and then finish them on the ground with a jointlock or choke if necessary i.e if they haven't got a concussion/broken bones from the throw. You can't tape your wrists/hand or put on gloves in a spur-of-the-moment streetfight or self-defense situation.

(Original post by Callum828)
The irony is that playing rugby will teach the average person far more about fighting than most martial arts.

Not really. Compare the efficiency and power of a Rugby tackle to a Freestyle Wrestling double-leg takedown or a Judo morote gari (basically the same thing) and the difference is huge - a Rugby tackle is designed to take someone to the ground not seriously injure them.

You think a Rugby tackle would have the same effect onto concrete as this?:

[bishbash72]

(Original post by Einheri)
Not really. Compare the efficiency and power of a Rugby tackle to a Freestyle Wrestling double-leg takedown or a Judo morote gari (basically the same thing) and the difference is huge - a Rugby tackle is designed to take someone to the ground not seriously injure them.

You think a Rugby tackle would have the same effect onto concrete as this?:

I agree.

Of course any combat sport (like Judo or wrestling) is going to teach you to fight to some degree. I was comparing it to **** like Taekwondo or Karate. The virtue of rugby is that they're actually training alive against resisting opponents, which are what make combat sports effective, rather than forms and one-steps.

Sweet video too.

[fuzzybear]

(Original post by Einheri)



Not really. Compare the efficiency and power of a Rugby tackle to a Freestyle Wrestling double-leg takedown or a Judo morote gari and the difference is huge - a Rugby tackle is designed to take someone to the ground not seriously injure them.

but I think main benefit with rugby is that it trains you to get used to taking hits. In confrontational situations, you probably will get hit unless you have lightning reactions or you strike first and knock the other guy out. How well you react from this can crucial, if you just learn all the attack moves and have never taken hits before, then you're vulnerable to going down easily from just one or two blows.

[Einheri]

(Original post by Callum828)
I agree.

Of course any combat sport (like Judo or wrestling) is going to teach you to fight to some degree. I was comparing it to **** like Taekwondo or Karate. The virtue of rugby is that they're actually training alive against resisting opponents, which are what make combat sports effective, rather than forms and one-steps.

Sweet video too.

Good.

Yeah, TKD and most forms of Karate are useless (Kyokushin being an exception). Same with Kung Fu - they have mostly degenerated into point-sparring and performance art. Kata (forms) are useless for learning how to fight - they were never meant to be used to learn how to fight; they were basically a database of techniques for preservation (no longer needed in the age of video and the internet).

Yeah, Rhadi Ferguson is awesome. Judo Olympian, Brazilian Jiu-jitsu blackbelt and he's breaking into professional MMA too.

[Einheri]

(Original post by fuzzybear)
but I think main benefit with rugby is that it trains you to get used to taking hits. In confrontational situations, you probably will get hit unless you have lightning reactions or you strike first and knock the other guy out. How well you react from this can crucial, if you just learn all the attack moves and have never taken hits before, then you're vulnerable to going down easily from just one or two blows.

I'm not saying it wouldn't help at all - but it doesn't compare to Judo or Wrestling in terms of how well it prepares you to fight.

[bishbash72]

(Original post by Einheri)
Good.

Yeah, TKD and most forms of Karate are useless (Kyokushin being an exception). Same with Kung Fu - they have mostly degenerated into point-sparring and performance art. Kata (forms) are useless for learning how to fight - they were never meant to be used to learn how to fight; they were basically a database of techniques for preservation (no longer needed in the age of video and the internet).

Yeah, Rhadi Ferguson is awesome. Judo Olympian, Brazilian Jiu-jitsu blackbelt and he's breaking into professional MMA too.

That's good to hear. You don't see a lot of Judokas going into MMA. Though there's an American woman who's making pretty big waves, though I forget her name.

[alphabet]

how do you say can i get a soda with that in taekwondoe?

[Einheri]

(Original post by Callum828)
That's good to hear. You don't see a lot of Judokas going into MMA.

Yeah, as I say during a Judoka's prime years they tend to have their heart set on the Olympics. Pretty much every Judoka you see in high level MMA is well past their prime Yoshida, Karo and Fedor are good examples of this.

(Original post by Callum828)
Though there's an American woman who's making pretty big waves, though I forget her name.

Ronda Rousey? She got a bronze in the Olympics and is currently undefeated in MMA. I actually tend to enjoy women's MMA more than men's, probably because there is more emphasis on technique rather than athleticism (with the exception of Cristiane Santos who is a man-beast) though that isn't to say they aren't in top form. That and because I'm an unashamed perv. Anyway, she has only had a few fights so we'll see . . .

[J.S123]

(Original post by JohnC2211)
... Except for when your opponent has friends and you take him down and they all kick you in the head. Or when you're rolling around on the floor outside some club and roll over some broken glass.

Bas Rutten disagrees

[bishbash72]

(Original post by Einheri)
Yeah, as I say during a Judoka's prime years they tend to have their heart set on the Olympics. Pretty much every Judoka you see in high level MMA is well past their prime Yoshida, Karo and Fedor are good examples of this.



Ronda Rousey? She got a bronze in the Olympics and is currently undefeated in MMA. I actually tend to enjoy women's MMA more than men's, probably because there is more emphasis on technique rather than athleticism (with the exception of Cristiane Santos who is a man-beast) though that isn't to say they aren't in top form. That and because I'm an unashamed perv. Anyway, she has only had a few fights so we'll see . . .

Yeah that's the one. As it happens I agree with you about womens' MMA. It's just so much easy to see what's going on when they're not bound up in muscle.

Sex appeal's not really part of it for me though, it's not a sport that attracts attractive women unfortunately (like Tennis somehow does)

[Tams80]

(Original post by LeeLee---x)
Yeah but it would look a bit suspicious if you constantly carried around a shinai all of the time, people wouldn't suspect a fairly solid umbrella.

*Reference to anime missed*

An umbrella would of course be far less conspicuous than a shinai.

[Einheri]

(Original post by Callum828)
Yeah that's the one. As it happens I agree with you about womens' MMA. It's just so much easy to see what's going on when they're not bound up in muscle.

Sex appeal's not really part of it for me though, it's not a sport that attracts attractive women unfortunately (like Tennis somehow does)

I think when you have huge guys who have a bowl of 'roids for breakfast the fight becomes as much about strength as anything else - personally I think the lighter weight fights are almost always the more interesting.

Rousey is attractive enough, Carano is another decent looking gal. There are a few, but then there are the, err, Cyborg-types who should be tested for both the presence of steroids and, erm, penis.

[LeeLee---x]

(Original post by Tams80)
*Reference to anime missed*

An umbrella would of course be far less conspicuous than a shinai.

That would explain it as I have a fairly limited knowledge of anime, what's it from?

Also do you do kendo?

[JohnC2211]

(Original post by J.S123)
Bas Rutten disagrees

He's a good MMA athlete, but MMA is one on one, in exactly the type of situation where BJJ is extremely effective.

And also, he seems to actually re-iterate my point, paraphrasing from the video: "You don't want to go on the ground in a street fight, but if it does go to the ground you don't want to not know what to do," this is essentially what I said a few posts up. BJJ is a great martial art but you shouldn't rely solely on it for self defence.

Furthermore, just because Bas Rutten can pull something off... doesn't mean the average-day-non-competitive BJJ guy is going to be able to. Usain Bolt can run 100m in just over 9 seconds. I do HIIT which incorporates sprints, does that mean I can do what he can do? Hell no.