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Unemployed teachers

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    I've noticed recently that there are many angry individuals ranting about how no NQT can find work. This has made me think and I've done a bit of enquiring myself. I'm at Edge Hill, way up in the North West where the situation is rather dire. However, last year graduates of the University saw a 85% employment rate. This, of course, was averaged out through the many subjects they offer, from Sciences (95% employment) to MFL and R.E. (60% employment). I have to say that employment tends to vary depending on three things:

    -Sector you are entering (Primary is much more competitive)
    -Willingness to re-locate (Competition is less than severe in area's of London)
    -Subject (Science and Maths tends to have high rates)

    I'm an English specialist (75-85% employment), so I know that I am in a better situation than others. But the situation is never hopeless. It just takes time.

    So I'm fed up of people saying there is no chance of a job. Do people agree?
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    (Original post by Mr. Approachable)
    I've noticed recently that there are many angry individuals ranting about how no NQT can find work. This has made me think and I've done a bit of enquiring myself. I'm at Edge Hill, way up in the North West where the situation is rather dire. However, last year graduates of the University saw a 85% employment rate. This, of course, was averaged out through the many subjects they offer, from Sciences (95% employment) to MFL and R.E. (60% employment). I have to say that employment tends to vary depending on three things:

    -Sector you are entering (Primary is much more competitive)
    -Willingness to re-locate (Competition is less than severe in area's of London)
    -Subject (Science and Maths tends to have high rates)

    I'm an English specialist (75-85% employment), so I know that I am in a better situation than others. But the situation is never hopeless. It just takes time.

    So I'm fed up of people saying there is no chance of a job. Do people agree?
    The thing is, people will come on here to ask for help with/rant about not being able to find a job, but people are much less likely to come on here to make a thread about how they just got a job because it's not a problem for them! It just seems like everyone's complaining because of that.

    Your post is good though; reassuring for a hopeful Primary PGCE student next year. I have accepted that it may take time to get a job and/or to get on to the course though!

    xxx
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    (Original post by kpwxx)
    The thing is, people will come on here to ask for help with/rant about not being able to find a job, but people are much less likely to come on here to make a thread about how they just got a job because it's not a problem for them! It just seems like everyone's complaining because of that.

    Your post is good though; reassuring for a hopeful Primary PGCE student next year. I have accepted that it may take time to get a job and/or to get on to the course though!

    xxx
    I'm glad I've been of some help. I was told that no Headteacher would give me a second look because of my course title. However, I found that because I am specialising in Key Stage 2/3 I know about transferable skills and development, something schools now are actively seeking. I'm hopeful, hardworking and willing to re-locate so hopefully I will be ok. Where are you studying?
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    (Original post by Mr. Approachable)
    I'm glad I've been of some help. I was told that no Headteacher would give me a second look because of my course title. However, I found that because I am specialising in Key Stage 2/3 I know about transferable skills and development, something schools now are actively seeking. I'm hopeful, hardworking and willing to re-locate so hopefully I will be ok. Where are you studying?
    I'm doing undergrad Maths at UEA in Norwich, hoping to do a PGCE with specialism in Foundation/KS1 next year (actually taking a break from writing my PS right now, I can't stay focussed on something so hard ). It's kind of frustrating that I (probably) would get a lot more free money and would have a much higher chance of getting on to the course and getting a job if I was going for Maths secondary, but that's the way it is lol.

    So have you just started?

    xxx
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    (Original post by kpwxx)
    I'm doing undergrad Maths at UEA in Norwich, hoping to do a PGCE with specialism in Foundation/KS1 next year (actually taking a break from writing my PS right now, I can't stay focussed on something so hard ). It's kind of frustrating that I (probably) would get a lot more free money and would have a much higher chance of getting on to the course and getting a job if I was going for Maths secondary, but that's the way it is lol.

    So have you just started?

    xxx
    True, but if you don't have your heart in it then this will come across in interviews and you'll be back to square one, regardless if you stand a better chance of getting a job in secondary. If you do well in your placements you will more than likely be offered a job. That's what they keep telling us here. I'm inclined to believe them. If you need help on your PS then send it my way, I'll help as best I can.

    EDIT: Sorry, yes I started a month ago.
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    (Original post by Mr. Approachable)
    True, but if you don't have your heart in it then this will come across in interviews and you'll be back to square one, regardless if you stand a better chance of getting a job in secondary. If you do well in your placements you will more than likely be offered a job. That's what they keep telling us here. I'm inclined to believe them. If you need help on your PS then send it my way, I'll help as best I can.

    EDIT: Sorry, yes I started a month ago.
    Ah thanks, may take you up there! I hope to finish a full draft tonight so I can bombard careers advisors, lecturers and friends with it tomorrow.

    And yeah exactly, I definitely want to work in primary (although throughout primary I'm quite flexible, don't tell the UEA people that...)
    xxx
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    (Original post by kpwxx)
    Ah thanks, may take you up there! I hope to finish a full draft tonight so I can bombard careers advisors, lecturers and friends with it tomorrow.

    And yeah exactly, I definitely want to work in primary (although throughout primary I'm quite flexible, don't tell the UEA people that...)
    xxx
    If you were to get a job in KS2 I doubt they would have a case to complain, since you are another graduate who is employed, hence more statistics for them!
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    (Original post by Mr. Approachable)
    I was told that no Headteacher would give me a second look because of my course title.
    Can I just ask what your course title was and why people said that?
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    (Original post by Mr. Approachable)
    I'm glad I've been of some help. I was told that no Headteacher would give me a second look because of my course title. However, I found that because I am specialising in Key Stage 2/3 I know about transferable skills and development, something schools now are actively seeking. I'm hopeful, hardworking and willing to re-locate so hopefully I will be ok. Where are you studying?
    I was a volunteer teacher before. If an interviewer asked me if I'm willing to relocate, I would bluntly say to them: "bring it on." lol.

    Mind me asking how old you are Sir?
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    (Original post by cat_2002_12)
    Can I just ask what your course title was and why people said that?
    It's English Key Stage 2/3 Education with QTS. Apparently no headteacher would give me a second glance, Secondary and Primary. One comment was because it is not focused on either sector. It's not true as the feedback from schools is very positive.
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    (Original post by kka25)
    I was a volunteer teacher before. If an interviewer asked me if I'm willing to relocate, I would bluntly say to them: "bring it on." lol.

    Mind me asking how old you are Sir?
    I'm 19. hahahaha a bit young I know. But I have savings.
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    The thing is that a lot of NQTs get employed on maternity contracts. Which is great for completing their induction and for the university's employment stats but it doesn't always lead to long-term work. There just aren't that many permanent jobs going.
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    wow 95% rate for sciences, never realised schools were that short of those teachers
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    (Original post by fuzzybear)
    wow 95% rate for sciences, never realised schools were that short of those teachers
    Yes, that's what I was told. But I do know it is extremely high.
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    (Original post by Mr. Approachable)
    True, but if you don't have your heart in it then this will come across in interviews and you'll be back to square one, regardless if you stand a better chance of getting a job in secondary. If you do well in your placements you will more than likely be offered a job. That's what they keep telling us here. I'm inclined to believe them. If you need help on your PS then send it my way, I'll help as best I can.

    EDIT: Sorry, yes I started a month ago.
    I'm sorry but that isn't true, regardless of where in the country you are located. If you do well on placement and a job happens to come up in your school then yes, maybe you'll be offered a job but it is nowhere near as simple as doing well = you get a job. In fact from my experience I'd say its been the opposite. I got outstanding in both of my PGCE placements and I got an outstanding rating overall. I got an A in the Masters side of the PGCE. I have a very strong degree and background from a top university as well as strong GCSE/A level knowledge in the core primary subjects. I speak several languages and have loads of extra curricular activities I can offer schools as well as subject specialisms through wider training. I'm still unemployed. People on my PGCE who were on cause for concern within weeks of the PGCE ending managed to get jobs. Getting a job is about being lucky and being in the right place at the right time, it isn't just about doing well in your placements. I applied to a London wide pool as I was relocating anyway and it turned out this pool only accepted outstanding NQTs and was ridiculously difficult to get into - I had no idea until afterwards. After every interview, I've been told I did great, my lesson was good and my interview was very good but no, they've given the job to someone else.

    Maybe in 3 or 4 years time when you're looking for an NQT position the situation will be different, and the fact that you're male will help you given schools are being pushed to get more men in the primary classroom. But right now, doing well in your placements and being willing to move does not mean you will be okay getting a job.

    I applied for my first job in January and its now October. I know that eventually I will get a job and its all a matter of time, but with all due respects, as a first year student on an undergraduate course I don't think you're really in a position to be giving people advice about the jobs market given you have no experience of it yourself. I know that I'm not the only NQT on TSR who also did extremely well during their PGCE year and is also unemployed. People do have a right to be worried as I'll tell you now, doing supply and signing up for the dole is not something I imagined myself doing as an NQT this time two years ago when I was applying for a PGCE.

    Also, please DO NOT offer to review personal statements via PM. If you want to do so, please ask to become a PS helper. Whilst your motives are genuine there are a lot of people on TSR who do not have the same ideas and there have been issues in the past with applicants PMing their PS for a randomer to helper them with..... several months down the line the applicant gets caught out by UCAS plagiarism scanners because the helper was actually a fellow applicant and submitted the PS first. If someone PMs you and it goes fine, then they're more likely to PM someone else which may not end up so great. If you're a PS helper you're assuring people you are who you say you are (as we carry out checks) and you'll also receive Amazon vouchers in return for your efforts.

    (Original post by kpwxx)
    Ah thanks, may take you up there! I hope to finish a full draft tonight so I can bombard careers advisors, lecturers and friends with it tomorrow.
    Please do not PM people your PS for the reasons outlined above. Post it in PS help instead for some fool like me to look at
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    (Original post by oxymoronic)
    Please do not PM people your PS for the reasons outlined above. Post it in PS help instead for some fool like me to look at
    Well I would never put my actual statement online if I were to do anything, just a kind of description of it- I'm too overly cautious for that lol.

    I have already made good use of the TSR wiki for personal statements! :P

    xxx
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    That's a good post, oxymoronic and those are all issues we should be aware of, but I don't think terrifying potential PGCE applicants is really the answer. Yes, of course it's often difficult to get a job, and I'm sorry to hear you've had so much trouble. However, we all just have to do our best and if this is what we want to do, do it. It's hard to get jobs everywhere, teaching or not and we all have to get by.

    I think posting such negative things in threads full of potential applicants isn't really the best way to encourage them. There's a balance between naivety and cynicism. Just my two cents.
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    (Original post by oxymoronic)

    I applied for my first job in January and its now October. I know that eventually I will get a job and its all a matter of time, but with all due respects, as a first year student on an undergraduate course I don't think you're really in a position to be giving people advice about the jobs market given you have no experience of it yourself. I know that I'm not the only NQT on TSR who also did extremely well during their PGCE year and is also unemployed. People do have a right to be worried as I'll tell you now, doing supply and signing up for the dole is not something I imagined myself doing as an NQT this time two years ago when I was applying for a PGCE.
    I got the equivilent of outstanding too and am still unemployed. Admittedly I did not start applying for jobs til mid June, as I found out then that my partner's job was relocating. However to date I have filled in over 20 application forms and have recieved 1 rejection and 2 interviews, the other 17+ have just ignored me. All my teachers on placement were like "Oh you'll get a job, don't worry", so I didn't. Until last week, when I got talking to other NQTs in the area and found out most of them graduated LAST year and have been looking for over a year already!

    The government needs to stop training so many teachers....there just aren't enough jobs for them all, esp in primary. Also, they need to stop cover supervisors and TAs teaching classes when it's a distinctly grey area in terms of the law and there are thousands of unemployed teachers.


    EDIT:
    Probably shouldn't have quoted you oxymoronic as you know my situation already! I was adding weight to your argument.
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    Oh my where do I start on this one?!

    (Original post by Mr. Approachable)
    It's English Key Stage 2/3 Education with QTS. Apparently no headteacher would give me a second glance, Secondary and Primary. One comment was because it is not focused on either sector. It's not true as the feedback from schools is very positive.
    As oxymoronic already said, it's not very worthwhile advice coming from a first year undergrad I'm afraid. It is certainly not true that schools will employ you just because you did well at placement....they're not companies who can find a bit extra money because you're valuable to them, they will only employ people if they have a space. Guaranteed next year my school will not employ a geography teacher as the four current teachers are all (barring any disaster) planning to work there again next year; even if a current ITT did amazingly well, it's not like the school would go "Oooh they're good let's just give all the geography teachers a reduced timetable and bring an extra teacher in".

    Also, and please don't take offence from this, but "feedback from schools being positive" is not the same as "let's employ them". I'm not saying that your course isn't good as I don't know much about Primary, but the 'less traditional' courses are not generally favoured above those with PGCEs etc.


    (Original post by oxymoronic)
    All of that
    Completely agree +R


    (Original post by sparklebox)
    That's a good post, oxymoronic and those are all issues we should be aware of, but I don't think terrifying potential PGCE applicants is really the answer. Yes, of course it's often difficult to get a job, and I'm sorry to hear you've had so much trouble. However, we all just have to do our best and if this is what we want to do, do it. It's hard to get jobs everywhere, teaching or not and we all have to get by.

    I think posting such negative things in threads full of potential applicants isn't really the best way to encourage them. There's a balance between naivety and cynicism. Just my two cents.
    I'm afraid that if you can't take a little bit of negativity then you shouldn't be thinking about being a teacher to be honest. If you want to brush the reality under the carpet, then go and find another job, because the teaching job market is competitive.

    In no way has oxymoron lead people to believe that "OMG THERE'S NO JOBS!"; she has quite clearly explained her situation and tried to clear up the confusion that "Mr. Approachable" has caused due to him throwing all of these statistics around.


    My opinion? Yes there are jobs out there if you're flexible. If you can move to where the jobs are then you shouldn't have too much of a problem. There are plenty of jobs out there but you have to remember that there are an increasing number of people with QTS and therefore increasing demand on those jobs.

    However, don't tell yourself everything will be fine, it may be a while before you can find a teaching job in the current market. At the same time, stick with it and you will find something eventually
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    (Original post by dobbs)
    Oh my where do I start on this one?!



    As oxymoronic already said, it's not very worthwhile advice coming from a first year undergrad I'm afraid. It is certainly not true that schools will employ you just because you did well at placement....they're not companies who can find a bit extra money because you're valuable to them, they will only employ people if they have a space. Guaranteed next year my school will not employ a geography teacher as the four current teachers are all (barring any disaster) planning to work there again next year; even if a current ITT did amazingly well, it's not like the school would go "Oooh they're good let's just give all the geography teachers a reduced timetable and bring an extra teacher in".

    Also, and please don't take offence from this, but "feedback from schools being positive" is not the same as "let's employ them". I'm not saying that your course isn't good as I don't know much about Primary, but the 'less traditional' courses are not generally favoured above those with PGCEs etc.




    Completely agree +R




    I'm afraid that if you can't take a little bit of negativity then you shouldn't be thinking about being a teacher to be honest. If you want to brush the reality under the carpet, then go and find another job, because the teaching job market is competitive.

    In no way has oxymoron lead people to believe that "OMG THERE'S NO JOBS!"; she has quite clearly explained her situation and tried to clear up the confusion that "Mr. Approachable" has caused due to him throwing all of these statistics around.


    My opinion? Yes there are jobs out there if you're flexible. If you can move to where the jobs are then you shouldn't have too much of a problem. There are plenty of jobs out there but you have to remember that there are an increasing number of people with QTS and therefore increasing demand on those jobs.

    However, don't tell yourself everything will be fine, it may be a while before you can find a teaching job in the current market. At the same time, stick with it and you will find something eventually
    My thread was made to show people that times are not as bad as many are saying. What annoys me is not people being realistic, but those who try to convince some trainee teachers that their course is sub-standard. And I'm not throwing statistics around in the sense you are describing, I am merely reflecting on what I have been told from members of staff in the Department of Education.

    Clearly if a school does not have room then they will not hire, however, many of the schools that work in partnership with Edge Hill know there will be an opening next year and often agree to take on a trainee teacher to see if they impress enough to fill the position.

    My thread is not trying to damage any opinions, just clarify what you just said; If you move to where there are jobs, you shouldn't have too much of a problem. Thanks for your post.

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Updated: February 25, 2012
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