Is The MBA Useless Or More Than Useless?
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I don't know what is driving your vitriolic hatred of the MBA. Are you going to tell us , or just continue to generate such drivel ?
TBD
TBD
Original post by Ory
But you spend your 30 grand or 100 grand on an MBA, just don't get upset if people laugh behind your back. The rest of us will get a real degree in a hard science or a profession.
Management is not a profession. There is no accountability, no right and wrong, no overseeing body of admission, and the MBA reflects this. It's about the worst degree you could get (at masters level) with the possible exception of TESOL or Women's Studies or British History or something of that ilk.
But you spend your 30 grand or 100 grand on an MBA, just don't get upset if people laugh behind your back. The rest of us will get a real degree in a hard science or a profession.
Management is not a profession. There is no accountability, no right and wrong, no overseeing body of admission, and the MBA reflects this. It's about the worst degree you could get (at masters level) with the possible exception of TESOL or Women's Studies or British History or something of that ilk.
Original post by yoyo462001
We'll you're talking FTSE 100 clients here. You'd be an even dumber client to believe that because a firm told you this person has 'great experience in XYZ' that that person had great experience. Think of it from a logical point of view, it is in the interest of firm pitching to over-exaggerate the experience of their employees and in the interest of the client to know exactly what they pay for, an MBA gives certainty.
It is very difficult to get onto them both practically and financially. Accounting is not hard to get into first of all, however due to the obvious number getting into a magic circle law firms isn't easy at all. If you think you could waltz into LBS, INSEAD, HBS, Stanford or Wharton then evidently you don't know much of the requirements. Either way you're comparing apples to lions.
It is very difficult to get onto them both practically and financially. Accounting is not hard to get into first of all, however due to the obvious number getting into a magic circle law firms isn't easy at all. If you think you could waltz into LBS, INSEAD, HBS, Stanford or Wharton then evidently you don't know much of the requirements. Either way you're comparing apples to lions.
This may already have been mentioned, but you need qualifications to work in accounting. CIMA, ACCA or ACA are necessities. An MBA will get you **** all. I have a Masters in Accounting & Financial Management but I still need further training.
Original post by Ory
You keep telling yourself that.
The rest of society will use Google and already know that economics is a pseudo science with limited value except to keep charlatans employed and students too stoopid to get into a real degree at university.
In the meantime take a read of this.
The rest of society will use Google and already know that economics is a pseudo science with limited value except to keep charlatans employed and students too stoopid to get into a real degree at university.
In the meantime take a read of this.
Your argument is contradictory. If economics is a useless subject and therefore offers no benefit to its scholars, then why by your own admission does it keep these 'charlatans' employed?
If the goal of your study is to gain employment then surely you are arguing in favour FOR economics? I'd absolutely love to study for a degree which can be done by the most 'stoopid' of applicants yet will convince my potential employers that I am qualified for a job.
Original post by Ice_Queen
This may already have been mentioned, but you need qualifications to work in accounting. CIMA, ACCA or ACA are necessities. An MBA will get you **** all. I have a Masters in Accounting & Financial Management but I still need further training.
Correct answer. MBA is like the modern day version of astrology.
Management "science" LOL.
Here's my management science - "Work hard and be competent and you will be rewarded - work incompetently and slowly any my lawyer will come in fire your a55."
This is all you need to know about management.
Like the other stuff they teach in an MBA, read it in books. Accounting is about the only useful subject in that "degree".
And you would have to be stoopid to pay all that money or spend that time getting that "degree" just to learn accounting when you could take a real accounting course and learn more in 6 months than you will ever learn in an MBA.
What kind of person would take "advice" about money or business from someone who wasted money and time on such a qualification? No one smart that I know. The only winners are the MBAs teaching the MBA - they're the real smart ones because they're taking your money.
Keeping buying those MBAs suckers!!!
What kind of person would take "advice" about money or business from someone who wasted money and time on such a qualification? No one smart that I know. The only winners are the MBAs teaching the MBA - they're the real smart ones because they're taking your money.
Keeping buying those MBAs suckers!!!
Original post by Ory
Different era, didn't pay for it. Most people enrolling today have zero experience in the workplace, zero undergrad applied knowledge with their business degrees (exception being the accountants), and pay for the privilege of earning an MBA, sometimes even from horrendous schools (eg to many employers, the LSE doesnt cut it in the US or Asia/Pacific who want locally focused degrees).
That said, for your dad it may have been perfect. He is an employee. nuff said. He goes from being a junior slave to a senior slave. Most people who have their own businesses would laugh at most MBAs and their degree. Gates, Zuckerberg, Jobs, Iaccoca, etc never wasted their time getting one, even when it was last considered valuable - more than 20 or 30 years ago.
Even the mainstream media recognized the futility of the MBA.
That said, for your dad it may have been perfect. He is an employee. nuff said. He goes from being a junior slave to a senior slave. Most people who have their own businesses would laugh at most MBAs and their degree. Gates, Zuckerberg, Jobs, Iaccoca, etc never wasted their time getting one, even when it was last considered valuable - more than 20 or 30 years ago.
Even the mainstream media recognized the futility of the MBA.
You do realize that e.g. Warren Buffett has two MBAs right?
Both Gates and Zuckerberg dropped out of Harvard to found their own company, and have done very well. However that doesn't mean they don't value university education (nor MBAs), it just means they found the opportunity available while at university more important than completing their education.
Buffet would have been successful without any MBA.
In fact he was born into money.
In fact anything he learned during his MBA was thrown out, because he invented a new system of management that no one else uses
The fact that I might have paid for a F1 car and now have one just like every F1 driver does, doesnt mean that I am anything nearly as good as a F1 champion. Buffet is such a champion, and the fact that he bought two F1 cars doesnt make him a better driver.
Most people would not regard a person who pays for an MBA as a person with good business acumen, as you can network and learn all of the MBA content yourself for a dime these days (internet, ebooks, libraries, short business seminars and courses).
Here's Buffet's management style - article from India Times
Unlike many global corporations, Berkshire Hathaway is known for its unique management style, where there are no frequent interactions between managers and Buffett.
"At Berkshire, managers can focus on running their businesses: They are not subjected to meetings at headquarters nor financing worries nor Wall Street harassment.
"They simply get a letter from me every two years and call me when they wish. And their wishes do differ: There are managers to whom I have not talked in the last year, while there is one with whom I talk almost daily," Buffett wrote in the letter.
In fact he was born into money.
In fact anything he learned during his MBA was thrown out, because he invented a new system of management that no one else uses
The fact that I might have paid for a F1 car and now have one just like every F1 driver does, doesnt mean that I am anything nearly as good as a F1 champion. Buffet is such a champion, and the fact that he bought two F1 cars doesnt make him a better driver.
Most people would not regard a person who pays for an MBA as a person with good business acumen, as you can network and learn all of the MBA content yourself for a dime these days (internet, ebooks, libraries, short business seminars and courses).
Here's Buffet's management style - article from India Times
Unlike many global corporations, Berkshire Hathaway is known for its unique management style, where there are no frequent interactions between managers and Buffett.
"At Berkshire, managers can focus on running their businesses: They are not subjected to meetings at headquarters nor financing worries nor Wall Street harassment.
"They simply get a letter from me every two years and call me when they wish. And their wishes do differ: There are managers to whom I have not talked in the last year, while there is one with whom I talk almost daily," Buffett wrote in the letter.
Original post by Ory
Buffet would have been successful without any MBA.
In fact he was born into money.
In fact anything he learned during his MBA was thrown out, because he invented a new system of management that no one else uses
The fact that I might have paid for a F1 car and now have one just like every F1 driver does, doesnt mean that I am anything nearly as good as a F1 champion. Buffet is such a champion, and the fact that he bought two F1 cars doesnt make him a better driver.
Most people would not regard a person who pays for an MBA as a person with good business acumen, as you can network and learn all of the MBA content yourself for a dime these days (internet, ebooks, libraries, short business seminars and courses).
Here's Buffet's management style - article from India Times
In fact he was born into money.
In fact anything he learned during his MBA was thrown out, because he invented a new system of management that no one else uses
The fact that I might have paid for a F1 car and now have one just like every F1 driver does, doesnt mean that I am anything nearly as good as a F1 champion. Buffet is such a champion, and the fact that he bought two F1 cars doesnt make him a better driver.
Most people would not regard a person who pays for an MBA as a person with good business acumen, as you can network and learn all of the MBA content yourself for a dime these days (internet, ebooks, libraries, short business seminars and courses).
Here's Buffet's management style - article from India Times
Although I don't agree with your sentiment, I liked the F1 analogy. It is true that the MBA doesn't guarantee a great job/salary, but it does offer access to a great alumni network plus good networking potential (at least you have access to an F1 car if you will). I'm also not so sure that all the knowledge is totally useless, I can certainly think of people who have applied what they have learnt from the MBA successfully. Although I do totally accept your point that the MBA has come to be viewed as a golden ticket, which it most certainly is not.
Original post by Hanshen
Although I don't agree with your sentiment, I liked the F1 analogy. It is true that the MBA doesn't guarantee a great job/salary, but it does offer access to a great alumni network plus good networking potential (at least you have access to an F1 car if you will). I'm also not so sure that all the knowledge is totally useless, I can certainly think of people who have applied what they have learnt from the MBA successfully. Although I do totally accept your point that the MBA has come to be viewed as a golden ticket, which it most certainly is not.
The problem with the F1 analogy is that an MBA isn't even close to being a F1 car. I was hanging out that analogy to see what the MBA shills would say about it, "OH PRESTIGE MBA = F1 CAR OH YEAH EVERYONE WANTS ONE!! GREAT ANALOGY"
An MBA is like having an overpriced silver colored Maserati. A lot of podunk country people ooh aah at it but if you get into a crash, a truck will crush you. It looks nice to some people but a Lexus or Merc is just as good for 99% of the streets you'll be driving on.
The MBA is not needed for networking at all, as anyone can network with anyone today with the internet etc. You don't want to restrict networking to your podunk MBA school, thats for sure.
Like the Maserati, the MBA is glitzy and will turn people off. Why would you spend so much money when you are a poor driver? Why would you show off when on 99% of the roads you drive on a Lexus is enough? What's the point of when people want to get from a to b, and no matter what car you drive if you are a poor driver you cant do it - and most MBA candidates aint elite at all because anyone can get an MBA.
Its nice to see MBA apologists come out and love stupid analogies with F1 cars - I was hanging that out to see who would bite. Well done.
(edited 12 years ago)
Original post by Ory
The problem with the F1 analogy is that an MBA isn't even close to being a F1 car. I was hanging out that analogy to see what the MBA shills would say about it, "OH PRESTIGE MBA = F1 CAR OH YEAH EVERYONE WANTS ONE!! GREAT ANALOGY"
An MBA is like having an overpriced silver colored Maserati. A lot of podunk country people ooh aah at it but if you get into a crash, a truck will crush you. It looks nice to some people but a Lexus or Merc is just as good for 99% of the streets you'll be driving on.
The MBA is not needed for networking at all, as anyone can network with anyone today with the internet etc. You don't want to restrict networking to your podunk MBA school, thats for sure.
Like the Maserati, the MBA is glitzy and will turn people off. Why would you spend so much money when you are a poor driver? Why would you show off when on 99% of the roads you drive on a Lexus is enough? What's the point of when people want to get from a to b, and no matter what car you drive if you are a poor driver you cant do it - and most MBA candidates aint elite at all because anyone can get an MBA.
Its nice to see MBA apologists come out and love stupid analogies with F1 cars - I was hanging that out to see who would bite. Well done.
An MBA is like having an overpriced silver colored Maserati. A lot of podunk country people ooh aah at it but if you get into a crash, a truck will crush you. It looks nice to some people but a Lexus or Merc is just as good for 99% of the streets you'll be driving on.
The MBA is not needed for networking at all, as anyone can network with anyone today with the internet etc. You don't want to restrict networking to your podunk MBA school, thats for sure.
Like the Maserati, the MBA is glitzy and will turn people off. Why would you spend so much money when you are a poor driver? Why would you show off when on 99% of the roads you drive on a Lexus is enough? What's the point of when people want to get from a to b, and no matter what car you drive if you are a poor driver you cant do it - and most MBA candidates aint elite at all because anyone can get an MBA.
Its nice to see MBA apologists come out and love stupid analogies with F1 cars - I was hanging that out to see who would bite. Well done.
I don't have an mba, nor do I want one. So I'm not quite sure what you're getting at here. I'm not quite sure what part of having an mba causes you networking to be limited to an mba school, but that is a strange assumption. I would also contest that the internet has made networking accessible to "anyone" I certainly wouldn't network with any tom dick or harry online.
I'm not sure it turns as many people off as you think really, I certainly know people who are employed with mbas, and have even been funded to do them by their respective employers.
if an mba is so easy to obtain, and I of course am only referring to a useful mba from a good school, I would love to see you gain admission for one.
Anyway, just to reiterate, I do not want an mba, nor will I apply for one. Oh and as for your maserati reference, although I don't like maserati I do have a pretty nice car for my age, and seriously, they are so much more then a method of getting from a to b. You're clearly not 'into' cars, in which case owning a maserati would always be wasted on you regardless. Oh, and what exactly was the point in your, if you're hit by a truck you'll be crushed reference? I'm pretty sure neither merc nor lexus have the kind of ncap rating to resist a truck, for that matter I think if you want that kind of endurance you'd probably want a tank of some description...
Original post by Ory
The MBA is not needed for networking at all, as anyone can network with anyone today with the internet etc. You don't want to restrict networking to your podunk MBA school, thats for sure.
The MBA is not needed for networking at all, as anyone can network with anyone today with the internet etc. You don't want to restrict networking to your podunk MBA school, thats for sure.
Oh boy, you really do not know much about networking, do you?
The whole point is - while you study, you get to know people in a very different way than you would online or in a bar. You get to see them perform, you get to witness them succeed/fail in their classes, you get to share the ideas with them and study together. If you think faceless chatter on line can be considered "networking" in the same way - you are either naive or stupid.
Original post by janjanmmm
Oh boy, you really do not know much about networking, do you?
The whole point is - while you study, you get to know people in a very different way than you would online or in a bar. You get to see them perform, you get to witness them succeed/fail in their classes, you get to share the ideas with them and study together. If you think faceless chatter on line can be considered "networking" in the same way - you are either naive or stupid.
The whole point is - while you study, you get to know people in a very different way than you would online or in a bar. You get to see them perform, you get to witness them succeed/fail in their classes, you get to share the ideas with them and study together. If you think faceless chatter on line can be considered "networking" in the same way - you are either naive or stupid.
Haha networking with a bunch of other try-hards that could sign a loan application and will greet you as their peers in another toilet university that no one in the real world cares about.
That's gonna lead to employment in an important position.
Prospective Employer: "Tell me about your networking skills."
You "During my 2 year MBA at Toilet University I engaged with my peers, all of whom were equally capable of signing a loan application and getting into the pretttigious program at Toilet U in many discussions and exercises including win win, using a dashboard to solve problems, producing deliverables, and studying case studies about etc etc. I learned a lot more in the classroom about my peers than I ever would have by working on the ground floor in a real business, because Toilet U is all about networking with the best and brightest while the others are earning money and doing real things in the real world."
Prospective Employer: "Er, ok. Have you thought about working at McDonalds? Because we were looking er, for an "adult" here."
Original post by janjanmmm
Oh boy, you really do not know much about networking, do you?
The whole point is - while you study, you get to know people in a very different way than you would online or in a bar. You get to see them perform, you get to witness them succeed/fail in their classes, you get to share the ideas with them and study together. If you think faceless chatter on line can be considered "networking" in the same way - you are either naive or stupid.
The whole point is - while you study, you get to know people in a very different way than you would online or in a bar. You get to see them perform, you get to witness them succeed/fail in their classes, you get to share the ideas with them and study together. If you think faceless chatter on line can be considered "networking" in the same way - you are either naive or stupid.
Haha networking with a bunch of other try-hards that could sign a loan application and will greet you as their peers in another toilet university that no one in the real world cares about.
That's gonna lead to employment in an important position.
Prospective Employer: "Tell me about your networking skills."
You "During my 2 year MBA at Toilet University I engaged with my peers, all of whom were equally capable of signing a loan application and getting into the pretttigious program at Toilet U in many discussions and exercises including win win, using a dashboard to solve problems, producing deliverables, and studying case studies about company a doing b which is totally transferable to your company. I learned a lot more in the classroom about my peers than I ever would have by working on the ground floor in a real business, because Toilet U is all about networking with the best and brightest while the others are earning money and doing real things in the real world."
Prospective Employer: "Er, ok. Have you thought about working at McDonalds as a cashier? Because you may be too prestttigious for us, trust me. We were looking er, for an "adult" here."
Original post by Ory
Haha networking with a bunch of other try-hards that could sign a loan application and will greet you as their peers in another toilet university that no one in the real world cares about.
Did you ever go to a good college? I bet not.
Some of this "try hards" are children of people who run this world, you naive little man. Networking with them will mean tons more for a career than wondering the empty pages of internet, where ****heads like you are busy trolling with useless and unfounded speculations regarding things they have a very vague idea about.
Original post by janjanmmm
Did you ever go to a good college? I bet not.
Some of this "try hards" are children of people who run this world, you naive little man. Networking with them will mean tons more for a career than wondering the empty pages of internet, where ****heads like you are busy trolling with useless and unfounded speculations regarding things they have a very vague idea about.
Some of this "try hards" are children of people who run this world, you naive little man. Networking with them will mean tons more for a career than wondering the empty pages of internet, where ****heads like you are busy trolling with useless and unfounded speculations regarding things they have a very vague idea about.
Interesting reaction there friend.
Sure networking with the children of influential people is always nice, especially if you are one yourself. Just don't expect to get a job out of it. Most influential people I know wouldn't let their children study for an MBA, because they know its balls.
And university is not the place people network with these people. They already did that at an exclusive high school, which is where real networking takes place. Or at the tennis or golf or sailing club. You could go to a prestigious university but if you didnt go to the right school you may find it hard to network with people who did.
And none of this has anything to do with an MBA, because an MBA has nothing to do with the ability to network, let alone for learning anything useful.
Discuss.
(edited 12 years ago)
Is thread still running ? You failed/were kicked out/were rejected* from Troll University. Get over it and move on.
I have been studying reputable MBA offerings for some time now, and read enough to establish that the knowledge many are presenting the knowledge I need (accountancy, finance and strategy).
They are expensive and more broad-based than many MiM or MSc Financial Management courses (which are about 60% of the MBA price), but the mix of topics may provide you with the intense know-how you seek.
...or you can just dismiss it out of hand and whinge online in your own special thread in the hope that misery attracts friends.
* delete as applicable
TBD
I have been studying reputable MBA offerings for some time now, and read enough to establish that the knowledge many are presenting the knowledge I need (accountancy, finance and strategy).
They are expensive and more broad-based than many MiM or MSc Financial Management courses (which are about 60% of the MBA price), but the mix of topics may provide you with the intense know-how you seek.
...or you can just dismiss it out of hand and whinge online in your own special thread in the hope that misery attracts friends.
* delete as applicable
TBD
i would just like to add to all the drivel i have wasted my time reading throughout this thread, if i may.
people do MBAs for CV BRANDING, NETWORKING, LEADERSHIP, INSPIRATION and CAREER/SALARY INCREMENT.
these are the benefits of the mba. intangible but useful. it is these intangibles that employers value, not how much strategic accounting or marketing was learnt. noone gives a toss.
to sum up, and mba is not valued for its academic educational value, but for its intangible/social values.
people do MBAs for CV BRANDING, NETWORKING, LEADERSHIP, INSPIRATION and CAREER/SALARY INCREMENT.
these are the benefits of the mba. intangible but useful. it is these intangibles that employers value, not how much strategic accounting or marketing was learnt. noone gives a toss.
to sum up, and mba is not valued for its academic educational value, but for its intangible/social values.
Original post by drugs
i would just like to add to all the drivel i have wasted my time reading throughout this thread, if i may.
people do MBAs for CV BRANDING, NETWORKING, LEADERSHIP, INSPIRATION and CAREER/SALARY INCREMENT.
these are the benefits of the mba. intangible but useful. it is these intangibles that employers value, not how much strategic accounting or marketing was learnt. noone gives a toss.
to sum up, and mba is not valued for its academic educational value, but for its intangible/social values.
people do MBAs for CV BRANDING, NETWORKING, LEADERSHIP, INSPIRATION and CAREER/SALARY INCREMENT.
these are the benefits of the mba. intangible but useful. it is these intangibles that employers value, not how much strategic accounting or marketing was learnt. noone gives a toss.
to sum up, and mba is not valued for its academic educational value, but for its intangible/social values.
OK You got me. In stitches. Seriously, you aint too good for my heart. I am laughing so hard,
Apart from your obvious lack of any intellectual ability, you are prepared to go to college and pay that money for an MBA for intangibles that you could get working at a front counter at McDonalds and get paid for it?
In 1980 the MBA was worth something ie these "intangibles". Now everyone knows its a joke degree that anyone can get into and anyone can get. Did you see the FedEx commercial?
[video="youtube;NcoDV0dhWPA"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NcoDV0dhWPA[/video]
Original post by Ory
OK You got me. In stitches. Seriously, you aint too good for my heart. I am laughing so hard,
Apart from your obvious lack of any intellectual ability, you are prepared to go to college and pay that money for an MBA for intangibles that you could get working at a front counter at McDonalds and get paid for it?
In 1980 the MBA was worth something ie these "intangibles". Now everyone knows its a joke degree that anyone can get into and anyone can get. Did you see the FedEx commercial?
[video="youtube;NcoDV0dhWPA"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NcoDV0dhWPA[/video]
Apart from your obvious lack of any intellectual ability, you are prepared to go to college and pay that money for an MBA for intangibles that you could get working at a front counter at McDonalds and get paid for it?
In 1980 the MBA was worth something ie these "intangibles". Now everyone knows its a joke degree that anyone can get into and anyone can get. Did you see the FedEx commercial?
[video="youtube;NcoDV0dhWPA"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NcoDV0dhWPA[/video]
so? by your reasoning, just because pretty much anyone could obtain an economics degree, from say Southampton Solent, all economics degrees are rendered useless. Moreover, I could buy some textbook and learn ecomomics on my own, WHILE working at mcdonalds. Why does anyone therefore go to university? Why did you go to university? An MBA from Louisiana State University is probably not the same as a Stanford or Wharton MBA. Stop being a prick and just accept it. You dont seem to really understand how the world works. MBAs arent about intelligence. They are not designed to push the boundaries of your knowledge as a MSc Physics would do. An MBA is a professional qualification that aims to provide an all rounded education, in the form of things iv already mentioned. so get it straight. Im sure you wouldnt reject obtaining a harvard mba even if you had to fund it fully. but then again, what do you know about life and your career, from what i gather, not much.
Original post by drugs
so? by your reasoning, just because pretty much anyone could obtain an economics degree, from say Southampton Solent, all economics degrees are rendered useless. Moreover, I could buy some textbook and learn ecomomics on my own,
No economics is worthless for other reasons. Everyone knows that economists are never accountable for their flawed predictions, which are constantly wrong and based on flawed models.
Stop being a prick and just accept it. You dont seem to really understand how the world works. MBAs arent about intelligence. They are not designed to push the boundaries of your knowledge as a MSc Physics would do.
So stating something that Admiral Rickover and others have said is being a prick? Nobody in real business thinks an MBA is worth it. Does Gates have one? Did Jobs? Did Edison? The people who get an MBA think it's worth it - the rest of the world laughs behind their backs.
An MBA is a professional qualification that aims to provide an all rounded education, in the form of things iv already mentioned. so get it straight. Im sure you wouldnt reject obtaining a harvard mba even if you had to fund it fully. but then again, what do you know about life and your career, from what i gather, not much.
MBA is the opposite of professional qualification. It is the gateway to nothing. You dont need one to be a CEO, F500 CEOs dont have one and wouldn't touch one. Medicine, Law, Engineering, Dentistry are professional qualifications - because these are true professions. Management is not a profession at all, there is no right and wrong, and management science is pseudo science. I would reject a HBS MBA, it's a liberal arts degree for postgrads and I wouldn't touch it or waste my time. Id rather be in business learning the skills, networking and making money, building a business and reading books or hiring consultants with hard knowledge like lawyers as need be. Zuckerberg didn't even want to finish his degree at Harvard. Read more about why people say MBA is worthless.
If you want to click buy, then by all means do that. The rest of the world will be using their money to make more money and get experience in business while you give it to a university.
(edited 12 years ago)
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