[Bakmouth]

http://www.secularism.org.uk/132434.html

The Everyday Champions Church in Newark has had it's application to set up a free school turned down by the government, apparently due to their views on Creationsim.

It should be noted that the school never intended to teach anything which falls foul of the National Curriculum. In their statement the Everyday Champions Church responded with,

“We are proud to be a Christian School, but would like to make it very clear that Creationism will never be taught within the school other than where the National Curriculum requires it, which is in Religious Studies, this being the case in all mainstream schools. It is a sad fact that certain sections of the press and some internet bloggers have decided that because the Church itself has creationist beliefs, it therefore follows that the school will teach creationism and try to influence the pupils and staff accordingly.”

So they were fully complying with government policy yet their application was rejected on the basis of the church's theological beliefs.

How dangerous is this approach?

Presumably the government doesn't have a problem with RC and CofE schools teaching the virgin birth or the Resurrection, so why single out Creationists when they aren't even teaching outside of the curriculum?

The whole affair stinks.

Stephen Evans, National Secular Society Campaigns Manager said:

“We had previously received assurances from the DfE that groups advocating creationism would automatically have free school applications refused, so we are pleased that the Department are staying true to their word. We wholeheartedly agree with the Secretary of State that the teaching of creationist views as a potentially valid alternative theory is not acceptable in a 21st century state funded school.”

Therefore, it is clear that the Department of Education has a problem with Creationists being involved in schooling, regardless of whether they advocate a young-earth view to their students.

This is blatant discrimination.

[Jimbo1234]

Well of course the government will look down on any crazy cult that chooses to reject science for some stupid idea. The government is only protecting children from becoming brainwashed and having no future due to weak adults who have to use some warped version of a 1800 year old book as a crutch.

[Good bloke]

(Original post by Bakmouth)

This is blatant sensible discrimination.

Corrected.

[the bear]

i would not like my children to be taught by people who think that diseases are caused by evil spirits; creationism is the same level of nonsense

[Bakmouth]

(Original post by Good bloke)
Corrected.

Translation: I don't agree with Creationsim, so anyone who does should not be allowed to provide a state-approved education.

Tell me, if they allowed the church to go ahead and run the school, what effect would their views on creationsim have on the children?

[Bakmouth]

(Original post by the bear)
i would not like my children to be taught by people who think that diseases are caused by evil spirits; creationism is the same level of nonsense

But if they taught the very same things as the secular state school down the road, why would that matter?

You're targeting the administrators of the school, not the quality of the education.

[Bakmouth]

(Original post by Jimbo1234)
Well of course the government will look down on any crazy cult that chooses to reject science for some stupid idea. The government is only protecting children from becoming brainwashed and having no future due to weak adults who have to use some warped version of a 1800 year old book as a crutch.

So would the church be brainwashing people with the National Curriculum?

Because that is what they intended to teach.

[adam271]

I agree with you, it should be allowed purely because other religions are having their applications accepted.

That being said I think free schools was/are a bad idea from the get go. Purely because of these situations.

[the bear]

i'm sure that these schools would have better discipline and better exam results !!
but it is still wrong for children to be taught by deluded people ...

[Bakmouth]

(Original post by adam271)
I agree with you, it should be allowed purely because other religions are having their applications accepted.

That being said I think free schools was/are a bad idea from the get go. Purely because of these situations.

I agree, it reeks of discrimination.

It doesn't matter what your views on creationism are, if they were willing to adhere to the national curriculum then it shouldn't be an issue.

[Bakmouth]

(Original post by the bear)
i'm sure that these schools would have better discipline and better exam results !!
but it is still wrong for children to be taught by deluded people ...

Leaving aside whether they're deluded or not, if students are being taught what the government want them to be taught, why does it matter who teaches it?

[the bear]

it is a worry if you know that the teacher has funny ideas... where there's smoke there's fire if you ask me

[Jimbo1234]

(Original post by Bakmouth)
So would the church be brainwashing people with the National Curriculum?

Because that is what they intended to teach.

So they claim.
Anyone with such extreme beliefs must surely be unstable and would most likely slip in a bit of creationism crap here and there.

[the bear]

would the children have to make Arks in woodwork ?

what would creationist PE be like ?

[Bakmouth]

(Original post by the bear)
it is a worry if you know that the teacher has funny ideas... where there's smoke there's fire if you ask me

(Original post by Jimbo1234)
So they claim.
Anyone with such extreme beliefs must surely be unstable and would most likely slip in a bit of creationism crap here and there.

They had agreed to teach about Creationism in the Religious Knowledge class. Lots of secular and faith schools do this.

To say that they would undoubtedly end up teaching Creationism where they ought not to appears to be nothing more than wishful speculation.

[adam271]

(Original post by Jimbo1234)
So they claim.
Anyone with such extreme beliefs must surely be unstable and would most likely slip in a bit of creationism crap here and there.

That sounds an awful lot like thought police to me.
What they think is irrelevant, we shouldn't discriminate against people based on what they believe. Heck a lot of the beliefs in the main religions are just as crazy to me.
If this free school idea is going to work it has to be completely impartial or nothing.

[TurboCretin]

(Original post by Bakmouth)
Translation: I don't agree with Creationsim, so anyone who does should not be allowed to provide a state-approved education.

Tell me, if they allowed the church to go ahead and run the school, what effect would their views on creationsim have on the children?

This is uncertain. I think that's the point.

[Jimbo1234]

(Original post by Bakmouth)
They had agreed to teach about Creationism in the Religious Knowledge class. Lots of secular and faith schools do this.

To say that they would undoubtedly end up teaching Creationism where they ought not to appears to be nothing more than wishful speculation.

But the teachers would most likely be completely biased towards creationism and possibly slip it into biology.
Also, I think that anyone who upholds those beliefs should not be a teacher as it shows a total lack of logic and replacing fact with magic.

(Original post by adam271)
That sounds an awful lot like thought police to me.
What they think is irrelevant, we shouldn't discriminate against people based on what they believe. Heck a lot of the beliefs in the main religions are just as crazy to me.
If this free school idea is going to work it has to be completely impartial or nothing.

We should in academic fields.
If academia has proven it to be wrong, yet the person still believes it, they should not be in a place of education or working with kids.

[CJM13]

In my opinion, Religious Studies should not be taught to children until they reach the age of 11/12. Otherwise it is essentially brainwashing, children up until this age have a tendency to believe anything told to them by someone in a position of authority.

[callum9999]

(Original post by adam271)
That sounds an awful lot like thought police to me.
What they think is irrelevant, we shouldn't discriminate against people based on what they believe. Heck a lot of the beliefs in the main religions are just as crazy to me.
If this free school idea is going to work it has to be completely impartial or nothing.

Why? How does them not being able to teach suddenly make other free schools a failure?

What teachers think certainly is not irrelevant. No matter what they say, I strongly doubt they will keep creationism to religious education. And even if they did, I also strongly doubt it will be presented as a concept - as opposed to being told it's real.

Same goes to any other wacky religions (so, basically all of them!).