[dean1210]

For someone who frequently discriminates against atheists, isn't a little rich that you cry and shriek when the tables are turned?

[Maker]

(Original post by Bakmouth)
http://www.secularism.org.uk/132434.html

The Everyday Champions Church in Newark has had it's application to set up a free school turned down by the government, apparently due to their views on Creationsim.

It should be noted that the school never intended to teach anything which falls foul of the National Curriculum. In their statement the Everyday Champions Church responded with,

“We are proud to be a Christian School, but would like to make it very clear that Creationism will never be taught within the school other than where the National Curriculum requires it, which is in Religious Studies, this being the case in all mainstream schools. It is a sad fact that certain sections of the press and some internet bloggers have decided that because the Church itself has creationist beliefs, it therefore follows that the school will teach creationism and try to influence the pupils and staff accordingly.”

So they were fully complying with government policy yet their application was rejected on the basis of the church's theological beliefs.

How dangerous is this approach?

Presumably the government doesn't have a problem with RC and CofE schools teaching the virgin birth or the Resurrection, so why single out Creationists when they aren't even teaching outside of the curriculum?

The whole affair stinks.

Stephen Evans, National Secular Society Campaigns Manager said:

“We had previously received assurances from the DfE that groups advocating creationism would automatically have free school applications refused, so we are pleased that the Department are staying true to their word. We wholeheartedly agree with the Secretary of State that the teaching of creationist views as a potentially valid alternative theory is not acceptable in a 21st century state funded school.”

Therefore, it is clear that the Department of Education has a problem with Creationists being involved in schooling, regardless of whether they advocate a young-earth view to their students.

This is blatant discrimination.

They were not going to teach creationism anyway so why does it matter to you?

[cocacola2]

(Original post by DoomPuppet)
If the teachers don't accept or understand evolution, the Big Bang, etc., their teaching of these things would be substandard.

Woah... that's a pretty significant claim. Are you sure about this?

So I have to accept something to be able discuss it with somebody else to an adequate level? That doesn't even make sense.

Or does it only apply to theories that are used as submissions against the idea of a god/supreme being. Neither do in any case.. but meh..

[Planar]

(Original post by adam271)
That sounds an awful lot like thought police to me.
What they think is irrelevant, we shouldn't discriminate against people based on what they believe. Heck a lot of the beliefs in the main religions are just as crazy to me.
If this free school idea is going to work it has to be completely impartial or nothing.

It isn't like thought police at all. People can advocate creationism all they like, and they can even teach it in schools. The people of this nation, however, voted for people who vowed not to allow the teaching of creationism to be funded through tax. And so they got such a government.

[noisy06]

(Original post by Pax Amerifauna)
I wonder if all these Islamic schools are teaching Darwin, evolution, etc. If not, then this is blatant discrimination.

They teach Darwinism is Saudi Arabia lol, so I'm quite they teach them in Islamic schools in the UK.

[Maker]

The fact these creationist wants to start a school is very dodgy and the govt has agreed.

Creationists are very devious, they try all sorts of sneaky ways to get their ideology taught to kids in America and now they are trying it on in this country.

Its a good job people in this country are less enthralled by religion than Americans.

[noisy06]

(Original post by Maker)
The fact these creationist wants to start a school is very dodgy and the govt has agreed.

Creationists are very devious, they try all sorts of sneaky ways to get their ideology taught to kids in America and now they are trying it on in this country.

Its a good job people in this country are less enthralled by religion than Americans.

The Christian right wing in America have a stranglehold on schools lol. I remember in a documentary how they lobbied for a key science textbook to have a message in the beginning stating that evolution is "just a theory" and that people "should decide for themselves what to believe" or something along those lines. Personally I think there should be a more powerful lobbying network for faiths in Britain because I'm religious. An Atheist president in America is basically an impossibility, whereas here in the UK....

[adam271]

(Original post by Planar)
It isn't like thought police at all. People can advocate creationism all they like, and they can even teach it in schools. The people of this nation, however, voted for people who vowed not to allow the teaching of creationism to be funded through tax. And so they got such a government.

They said they will follow the national curriculum!

[Mind Tool]

(Original post by adam271)
They said they will follow the national curriculum!

what they say and what they intend to do are two completely different things, put simply the department for education believed they were lying.

[Pax Amerifauna]

(Original post by noisy06)
The Christian right wing in America have a stranglehold on schools lol. I remember in a documentary how they lobbied for a key science textbook to have a message in the beginning stating that evolution is "just a theory" and that people "should decide for themselves what to believe" or something along those lines. Personally I think there should be a more powerful lobbying network for faiths in Britain because I'm religious. An Atheist president in America is basically an impossibility, whereas here in the UK....

As an American who went to a public high school, that's total bs. They tried and they failed. American public schools do teach evolution.

[adam271]

(Original post by Mind Tool)
what they say and what they intend to do are two completely different things, put simply the department for education believed they were lying.

Totally agree with you.
But they couldn't prove that they would of done that. I'm a keen advocate of treating equally. If a Christian group went up to the government and asked to start a school and promised to not impose their views on the student would the government deny them? Nope and would that Christian group impose their religious views on the students? Of course they will.
I find all religions equally absurd, people say creationists are the most crazy but when you just look at some of the stuff the mainstream religions splurt out it's laughable.

[Mind Tool]

(Original post by adam271)
Totally agree with you.
But they couldn't prove that they would of done that. I'm a keen advocate of treating equally. If a Christian group went up to the government and asked to start a school and promised to not impose their views on the student would the government deny them? Nope and would that Christian group impose their religious views on the students? Of course they will.
I find all religions equally absurd, people say creationists are the most crazy but when you just look at some of the stuff the mainstream religions splurt out it's laughable.

true but creationism does raise bigger problems when teaching students because for the most part it completely denies all modern scientific evidence when it comes to life and the creation of our universe, and obviously a kid being taught it was due to god and never being taught any real theories would be ridiculed and look down upon in later life a lot more than your average run of the mill theist.

If i had to guess i would say the DOE got them on their ability to teach the required curriculum, which needs to be shown by any school that wants government approval but realistically it would have been because they would have taught creationism as fact and i highly doubt it would just be in religious education lessons.

Although i do agree that we cant force people not to teach Christian/Islamic/Jewish/other mythology outside the R.E classroom the DOE were right in denying the request simply because of what the students would have been taught would not be in line with the national curriculum and could cause them serious problems later in life.

[Steevee]

(Original post by Bakmouth)
If they were not taught to be Nazis, why would I not be OK with it?

So you are honestly telling me you'd be fine with the biggest Neo-Nazi around teaching your children? So long as their proposed curriculem was ok? You can see no possible way some of their Neo-Nazi beliefs could ever possibley spill into the classroom and onto your children?

[J0kerman2]

(Original post by Bakmouth)
http://www.secularism.org.uk/132434.html

The Everyday Champions Church in Newark has had it's application to set up a free school turned down by the government, apparently due to their views on Creationsim.

It should be noted that the school never intended to teach anything which falls foul of the National Curriculum. In their statement the Everyday Champions Church responded with,

“We are proud to be a Christian School, but would like to make it very clear that Creationism will never be taught within the school other than where the National Curriculum requires it, which is in Religious Studies, this being the case in all mainstream schools. It is a sad fact that certain sections of the press and some internet bloggers have decided that because the Church itself has creationist beliefs, it therefore follows that the school will teach creationism and try to influence the pupils and staff accordingly.”

So they were fully complying with government policy yet their application was rejected on the basis of the church's theological beliefs.

How dangerous is this approach?

Presumably the government doesn't have a problem with RC and CofE schools teaching the virgin birth or the Resurrection, so why single out Creationists when they aren't even teaching outside of the curriculum?

The whole affair stinks.

Stephen Evans, National Secular Society Campaigns Manager said:

“We had previously received assurances from the DfE that groups advocating creationism would automatically have free school applications refused, so we are pleased that the Department are staying true to their word. We wholeheartedly agree with the Secretary of State that the teaching of creationist views as a potentially valid alternative theory is not acceptable in a 21st century state funded school.”

Therefore, it is clear that the Department of Education has a problem with Creationists being involved in schooling, regardless of whether they advocate a young-earth view to their students.

This is blatant discrimination.

No doubt you'll stick your fingers in your ears and pretend this isn't true but the fact is that creationism is 100% FALSE. The verdict amongst biologists is completely unanimous: evolution is true. Anyone school that would teach creationist myths to children is denying them a real education and tantamount to child abuse,,,of course the government is going to refuse to allow them to run a school. That not discrimination..thats good educational policy

[ChipDeeks]

Alternatively, you could surpass the issue by overturning the law and stopping the crazy idea of free schools. Seems simple enough to me.....

[adam271]

(Original post by ChipDeeks)
Alternatively, you could surpass the issue by overturning the law and stopping the crazy idea of free schools. Seems simple enough to me.....

Indeed, I said religious free schools would be a problem from the start along with many people. Free schools are not a good idea!

[DoomPuppet]

(Original post by cocacola2)
Woah... that's a pretty significant claim. Are you sure about this?

So I have to accept something to be able discuss it with somebody else to an adequate level? That doesn't even make sense.

The only reasons these people don't accept evolution, etc. are a lack of understanding and/or being so deluded in their religious beliefs that they wouldn't accept the evidence if it slapped them in their faces.

Either way, they're in no position to teach science to an adequate standard.

[UnashamedLiberal]

(Original post by Bakmouth)
http://www.secularism.org.uk/132434.html

The Everyday Champions Church in Newark has had it's application to set up a free school turned down by the government, apparently due to their views on Creationsim.

It should be noted that the school never intended to teach anything which falls foul of the National Curriculum. In their statement the Everyday Champions Church responded with,

“We are proud to be a Christian School, but would like to make it very clear that Creationism will never be taught within the school other than where the National Curriculum requires it, which is in Religious Studies, this being the case in all mainstream schools. It is a sad fact that certain sections of the press and some internet bloggers have decided that because the Church itself has creationist beliefs, it therefore follows that the school will teach creationism and try to influence the pupils and staff accordingly.”

So they were fully complying with government policy yet their application was rejected on the basis of the church's theological beliefs.

How dangerous is this approach?

Presumably the government doesn't have a problem with RC and CofE schools teaching the virgin birth or the Resurrection, so why single out Creationists when they aren't even teaching outside of the curriculum?

The whole affair stinks.

Stephen Evans, National Secular Society Campaigns Manager said:

“We had previously received assurances from the DfE that groups advocating creationism would automatically have free school applications refused, so we are pleased that the Department are staying true to their word. We wholeheartedly agree with the Secretary of State that the teaching of creationist views as a potentially valid alternative theory is not acceptable in a 21st century state funded school.”

Therefore, it is clear that the Department of Education has a problem with Creationists being involved in schooling, regardless of whether they advocate a young-earth view to their students.

This is blatant discrimination.

You're absolutely right Bakmouth. We have to allow young people to see all the evidence and make up their own minds.

Which is why I hope you'll sign up to my campaign to teach faith healing and homeopathy in med school.