[Emaemmaemily]

(Original post by Made in the USA)
OUR corporate media?

It's coming from your media, not ours.

Where do you think these stories are coming from? All you do is need to read the online version British papers and you get no shortage of NHS horror stories. They usually run one every week or so. Every week when I am driving home listening to a US radio talk show, they read something off the guardian's website about the NHS killing someone. Then they scare the living hell out of the listeners by saying if the left have their way that kind of healthcare is coming to this country.

That doesn't make it all true! The Guardian? Please... Everyone knows how one-sided news papers are, and the only people that buy into their crap are those ignorant individuals with very little intelligence of their own.
The NHS doesn't kill people, and it is a great system. People don't die on waiting lists, they only reason they would die waiting is if, for example, there simply was no organ to transplant for them because of a lack of donors. That's nothing to do with their care.
The NHS isn't perfect, but it's a hell of a lot better than the USA system in my opinion. I've lived in both places, and I still find it hard to believe that a 1st world country will bankrupt people and ruin their lives just for healthcare. Healthcare should simply be provided.
Most people in the USA have health insurance, but that doesn't mean the insurance will pay for everything that can happen to them. More often than not it's fairly basic (especially for the poor people, they will get the cheapest one), meaning that they still get stuck with an awful bill should something happen to them.

[Andythepiano]

(Original post by DYKWIA)
And? That's no reason to pick on us! Also, I'd just like to point out you have not given any examples of what is 'wrong with American society'.

No, perhaps David hasn't, but the rest of us have. I must admit, I will give you 10/10 for perseverence, but really..... this thread is full of them.

Get your head out of FOX news and into the real world

[Kiss]

No, we'd become 'Airstrip One' and George Orwell's sci/fi ficition comes to life.

[tehFrance]

(Original post by Emaemmaemily)
The NHS doesn't kill people, and it is a great system. People don't die on waiting lists.

There is a lot of doctor malpractice resulting in deaths in the NHS. People do die on waiting lists and not just for the ones with organs.

Seriously you cannot make a blanket statement that no one dies and the NHS does not kill people (okay maybe the NHS specifically doesn't but its doctors/nurses do).

[tehFrance]

(Original post by Erich Hartmann)
Let's just say when my then boss told me I'm being sent to Britain I negotiated to have my US health insurance cover maintained and I had access to private health care while in Britain.... having said that, private healthcare in Britain is as good as any of those in US other than the specialized ones which are by far superior in US.

Other than when you have an operation or something that can be covered outside the NHS, private healthcare is non-existent in the UK. If you have a problem that requires you go to hospital (via ambulance), you go to the NHS hospital down the road not a private hospital... useless imo.

[davidlll]

(Original post by Erich Hartmann)
Tell me something....... how come most South Asians in Britain either work in a curry house or are jobless?

Many have been leapfrogged into the House of Lords though. By royal command. Ah, you got us there ..... we still have many fuedal institutions!

[afromansmate]

(Original post by Erich Hartmann)
He is in the minority.

Like you're in the majority

[Emaemmaemily]

(Original post by tehFrance)
There is a lot of doctor malpractice resulting in deaths in the NHS. People do die on waiting lists and not just for the ones with organs.

Seriously you cannot make a blanket statement that no one dies and the NHS does not kill people (okay maybe the NHS specifically doesn't but its doctors/nurses do).

I didn't mean it never happens, but it is not something especially bad within the NHS compared to other places. The NHS is bloody brilliant for the most part, and it's ridiculous when you hear people making stupid statements about it.

[Erich Hartmann]

(Original post by Emaemmaemily)
The NHS doesn't kill people, and it is a great system. People don't die on waiting lists, they only reason they would die waiting is if, for example, there simply was no organ to transplant for them because of a lack of donors. That's nothing to do with their care.

Rubbish...... utter rubbish.

You don't need to wait for an organ for a cardiac bypass. I've known at least 3 people in their 60s who passed on years earlier while waiting for a bypass operation.

1 person I know in their 40s, used to be a rather well off investment banker. He needed some kind of spinal surgery as he had a rather serious car accident... if he was in US he would be walking... but due to the screwed up waiting list system his wasn't a priority... today he is wheel-chair bound and a drug addict...... yah he had faith in the NHS despite having enough money to go anywhere in the world for treatment.... ironic because at that time of the accident he could have opted to use his company insurance to get treated in USA.

This one is somewhat personal, but my uncle used to be a cardiac surgeon with the NHS... ironically considering the job he did for the 20 odd years he was in Britain he never once went to see a doctor or have a medical checkup until he had his own heart problems... alas unlike previous cases he couldn't operate himself... ended up he had to join the queue like everyone else. Thankfully he had the money to go to Hong Kong and get one immediately, his waiting list at that time was just around 2 years when he would have passed on had he waited 3 more months.

Please just because you think it is a great system, don't be blinded to its flaws which are aplenty and while it may not always be the fault of the NHS that such flaws exist as even in US there are waiting times in certain places.... but you're deluded to think deaths don't occur on waiting list.

[Erich Hartmann]

(Original post by afromansmate)
Like you're in the majority

There are plenty within Britain who want to see real reforms to the NHS. Majority definitely as it is obvious it is getting too expensive for what it is.

[tehFrance]

(Original post by Emaemmaemily)
The NHS is bloody brilliant for the most part.

Compared to where exactly?

Australia? Canada? Cuba? France? Nordic Countries? Hong Kong? Singapore?

Sure in comparison to the US' commercial healthcare it can be better but in comparison to other countries which have a publicly funded healthcare or mixed medical economy it is not as good as it could be.

[afromansmate]

(Original post by tehFrance)
Compared to where exactly?

Australia? Canada? Cuba? France? Nordic Countries? Hong Kong? Singapore?

Sure in comparison to the US' commercial healthcare it can be better but in comparison to other countries which have a publicly funded healthcare or mixed medical economy it is not as good as it could be.

So ALL these countries have a better system than the US...

Spot on! Can't say I agree with you on many things, but thanks for making this point .... other countries may have a better healthcare system than the UK, but even the french agree that the UK's is better than that of the US

[tehFrance]

(Original post by afromansmate)
So ALL these countries have a better system than the US...

Spot on! Can't say I agree with you on many things, but thanks for making this point .... other countries may have a better healthcare system than the UK, but even the french agree that the UK's is better than that of the US

you missed the point of what I was trying to get across... the poster I was quoting was saying that the NHS is perfect and nothing can be wrong which is not true at all, the NHS has gone the wrong way recently and needs to be reformed back to the glorious service it once was.

[davidlll]

(Original post by Kara09)
..... Mexicans which are becoming a substantial part of the US population? White Americans will be in the minority in less than 50 years and Spanish will be spoken as much as English is today.

Let justice be done.
Let the stolen lands return to the natives.
It has been a long time coming.

[pol pot noodles]

(Original post by Erich Hartmann)
Rubbish...... utter rubbish.

You don't need to wait for an organ for a cardiac bypass. I've known at least 3 people in their 60s who passed on years earlier while waiting for a bypass operation.

1 person I know in their 40s, used to be a rather well off investment banker. He needed some kind of spinal surgery as he had a rather serious car accident... if he was in US he would be walking... but due to the screwed up waiting list system his wasn't a priority... today he is wheel-chair bound and a drug addict...... yah he had faith in the NHS despite having enough money to go anywhere in the world for treatment.... ironic because at that time of the accident he could have opted to use his company insurance to get treated in USA.

This one is somewhat personal, but my uncle used to be a cardiac surgeon with the NHS... ironically considering the job he did for the 20 odd years he was in Britain he never once went to see a doctor or have a medical checkup until he had his own heart problems... alas unlike previous cases he couldn't operate himself... ended up he had to join the queue like everyone else. Thankfully he had the money to go to Hong Kong and get one immediately, his waiting list at that time was just around 2 years when he would have passed on had he waited 3 more months.

Please just because you think it is a great system, don't be blinded to its flaws which are aplenty and while it may not always be the fault of the NHS that such flaws exist as even in US there are waiting times in certain places.... but you're deluded to think deaths don't occur on waiting list.

You love your anecdotes don't you?

[Erich Hartmann]

(Original post by afromansmate)
So ALL these countries have a better system than the US...

Spot on! Can't say I agree with you on many things, but thanks for making this point .... other countries may have a better healthcare system than the UK, but even the french agree that the UK's is better than that of the US

Have you even been to Singapore and Hong Kong to experience their healthcare?

Better in what sense exactly?

[ArcadiaHouse]

(Original post by Tom_Andrews)
What would happen to our accents?

A lot of students appear to have created a hybrid of the two.

[Emaemmaemily]

(Original post by Erich Hartmann)
Rubbish...... utter rubbish.

You don't need to wait for an organ for a cardiac bypass. I've known at least 3 people in their 60s who passed on years earlier while waiting for a bypass operation.

1 person I know in their 40s, used to be a rather well off investment banker. He needed some kind of spinal surgery as he had a rather serious car accident... if he was in US he would be walking... but due to the screwed up waiting list system his wasn't a priority... today he is wheel-chair bound and a drug addict...... yah he had faith in the NHS despite having enough money to go anywhere in the world for treatment.... ironic because at that time of the accident he could have opted to use his company insurance to get treated in USA.

This one is somewhat personal, but my uncle used to be a cardiac surgeon with the NHS... ironically considering the job he did for the 20 odd years he was in Britain he never once went to see a doctor or have a medical checkup until he had his own heart problems... alas unlike previous cases he couldn't operate himself... ended up he had to join the queue like everyone else. Thankfully he had the money to go to Hong Kong and get one immediately, his waiting list at that time was just around 2 years when he would have passed on had he waited 3 more months.

Please just because you think it is a great system, don't be blinded to its flaws which are aplenty and while it may not always be the fault of the NHS that such flaws exist as even in US there are waiting times in certain places.... but you're deluded to think deaths don't occur on waiting list.

As I've said, I know there ARE problems, but not considerably more than in other places (such as the US, which is what we are discussing). They have doctors who make mistakes and waiting lists too... It's not an NHS problem.

(Original post by tehFrance)
Compared to where exactly?

Australia? Canada? Cuba? France? Nordic Countries? Hong Kong? Singapore?

Sure in comparison to the US' commercial healthcare it can be better but in comparison to other countries which have a publicly funded healthcare or mixed medical economy it is not as good as it could be.

Compared to the US, which is what we're discussing.
Yes, the NHS needs certain improvements, but I was responding to points about the US healthcare system. The NHS is very good, especially compared to the USA; but yes obviously it needs improvements too.

[Udonnomi]

(Original post by Erich Hartmann)
Long ago I used to be living in Seattle, Washington. during that time I used to drive a lot to a town rather close to the Canadian border, Bellingham was the name of it... nice place and it had one of the best ever Chinese food I've had outside of Asia which we would go to just for kicks plus to do some shopping as some food stuff were cheaper there than it was in Seattle.

Heh... once we stopped by at a hospital to visit one cute Swedish girl who was doing an internship... so happened I parked at the long stay carpark.... I had to ask someone whether we were still in USA because the carpark was full of Canadian cars. I was asking the manager of that cute Swede why there were so many Canadian cars in the long stay car park only to be told that hospital had almost 60% of patients from Canada, she even showed me some of the adverts the hospital placed giving special discounts to Canadians... surprising many came for cardiac related surgeries, some came for knee and hip replacement surgery and another bunch came just to see a specialist because there was a special deal for Canadians that could pay either by cash or card, all they had to pay was US$55 for a first opinion and for another US$15 they could get a 2nd opinion from another doctor within the hospital. If you were deemed to be a good candidate where the possibility of a complication was remote then they would perform that surgery for you at a lower cost than if you paid for it with US health insurance.

It amazed all of us then since we were all rather young at that time... and had no idea that to get a heart bypass there was such a thing as a waiting list in Canada and we seriously thought that must be one of the most blatant abuses of human rights if one can't get a life-saving surgery like that immediately.

I'm pretty sure if tomorrow the NHS model was transplanted in most US states one thing for certain taxes will sky rocket far more than what most families will pay for health insurance.



How strange, in 2002 while I was living in NJ it used to be common to hear radio talk shows on how good the US healthcare system were because they compared it to the NHS surprisingly they usually took it from the BBC.

Let's just say when my then boss told me I'm being sent to Britain I negotiated to have my US health insurance cover maintained and I had access to private health care while in Britain.... having said that, private healthcare in Britain is as good as any of those in US other than the specialized ones which are by far superior in US.


Where do you get the idea that the majority of Americans are poorly educated?

Social infrastructure? You like the dependency and entitlement culture that's now rife in Britain I suppose?

Actually I would dispute it with you that if you can't make it in Britain you won't make it in USA.... every year thousands of people from Asia make it to USA and most that do settle there end up making it big... just look at the number of Indian nationals working in the Silicon Valley. Go to any hospital in US, guaranteed you will somehow somewhere find one Indian or Arab doctor. Tell me something....... how come most South Asians in Britain either work in a curry house or are jobless?

Every year thousands of people who are ethnic Chinese, Japanese or Koreans make it to USA, many of them become top students at their Ivy League universities and many of these end up in some of the most competitive companies in the field. How come till today despite Britain having Chinese people since the 18th century the only famous oriental person holding a high position in an organization in Britain is Nottingham University? Weird the country bangs on about diversity and all that but there isn't a single judge, MP, Minister or Deputy that is of oriental heritage?

Now let's talk about investment banking and law.... long long ago I started working at an American investment bank, it's among the most prominent one in Britain as well. In the year I joined it there were 80 of us who had started out as a trainee then... 70 of us never had rich parents, investment banker parents or even parents who knew investment bankers. Funny thing, of the 80 of us, only 30 were 100% White Americans, the rest were either mixed, foreign born or Americans of other ethnicities. Why not you go check the statistics of any investment banks operating in Britain what extent of those they hired already had connections in the institution? Do you think it will be easy for someone who hails from a working-class background in Wolverhampton despite being redbrick uni educated to even be called for an interview?

Lawyers, in all of USA there are plenty of them that are foreign born, plenty of them that are blacks or even hispanic or asian. Surprisingly there are a few good judges in USA that are black, women or came from poor backgrounds, how many of such lawyers or judges exist in Britain?

...hmm to be honest mate i can't be bothered to argue.

[Andythepiano]

(Original post by Udonnomi)
...hmm to be honest mate i can't be bothered to argue.

I don't think anybody else can either - no knockout blows, since everytime the brits knocked the americans down, they just got back up again - but .........judges decision......... brits win on points (YESSS)