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Should England join the US and leave the EU?

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    (Original post by arra)
    ^World history isn't so different after all from British History now is it?
    We don't really study a lot of British history in the UK. It's mainly Continental European and American.
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    (Original post by Lewis :D)
    ...
    Our basic history that we are required to study varies from state to state, but generally it focuses on US history - which isn't that surprising is it? If you wanna take more courses on world history that is up to the student. How is that a bad system?
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    (Original post by Made in the USA)
    US states operate in many ways with greater sovereignty than EU states.
    Except of course that US states aren't sovereign or independent. You say some silly things sometimes.
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    (Original post by pol pot noodles)
    Except of course that US states aren't sovereign or independent. You say some silly things sometimes.
    But they have a lot of autonomy and a large number of decisions about running a state are made on the state level. Different states have different levels of taxation, different speed limits, different education laws etc, different laws on marriage etc.
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    (Original post by DYKWIA)
    But they have a lot of autonomy and a large number of decisions about running a state are made on the state level. Different states have different levels of taxation, different speed limits, different education laws etc, different laws on marriage etc.
    Same happens in many countries. USA isn't special in relation to that. Scotland and England have always had different laws on everything, despite being a part of the same unified country.
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    (Original post by DYKWIA)
    But they have a lot of autonomy and a large number of decisions about running a state are made on the state level. Different states have different levels of taxation, different speed limits, different education laws etc, different laws on marriage etc.
    And you think EU member states don't have these? Are you serious?
    You have stated on many occasions that US states have greater autonomy and sovereignty than EU members.
    EU members have everything US states have (which EU members have much greater control of), on top of that they have control over foreign affairs, defence, and possible the most important thing, they are actually independent and sovereign.
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    (Original post by DYKWIA)
    But they have a lot of autonomy and a large number of decisions about running a state are made on the state level. Different states have different levels of taxation, different speed limits, different education laws etc, different laws on marriage etc.
    They can't have an independant government though - we can

    By the way, if we did join you, what choice would we have of government? Right-wing Democrats or Far-right Republicans - seems like no choice at all to me - and don't give me that bull**** about right-wing politics working, about your "fantastic" health service, or how everybody having guns makes everybody feel safe, because we don't buy any of it.

    Do you have any other arguments?
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    (Original post by pol pot noodles)
    Except of course that US states aren't sovereign or independent. You say some silly things sometimes.
    EU states are not sovereign or independent
    Not anymore anyway.
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    (Original post by Made in the USA)
    EU states are not sovereign or independent
    Not anymore anyway.
    Yes they are
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    I don't know politics. But the free movement of people within the EU is just WOW. Some Europeans are prepared to bring up their families in a foreign countries. It's fine, but they haven't a clue about the educational system in that foreign country. Not all Europeans are mega-rich and can afford sending their children to independent schools.
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    (Original post by ILikeProperThings)
    I don't know politics. But the free movement of people within the EU is just WOW. Some Europeans are prepared to bring up their families in a foreign countries. It's fine, but they haven't a clue about the educational system in that foreign country. Not all Europeans are mega-rich and can afford sending their children to independent schools.
    Yes you really don't do you?
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    (Original post by Made in the USA)
    EU states are not sovereign or independent
    Not anymore anyway.
    Except that they are...
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    (Original post by Emaemmaemily)
    Yes they are
    Bull

    Go ahead and try to reinstate the death penalty, as some US states have

    You can't because it's against EU law.
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    (Original post by Made in the USA)
    Bull

    Go ahead and try to reinstate the death penalty, as some US states have

    You can't because it's against EU law.
    EU law that was ratified through various directives and treaties by each member state.
    Individual US states currently have the power to decide upon the death penalty in accordance with American common law. The difference between the two is that if the US Supreme Court was to completely ban the death penalty, there would be nothing individual states could do. On the other hand, EU Member states can, being SOVEREIGN and INDEPENDENT, through the principle of legislative supremacy, enact new laws that would over ride both the EU and ECHR ban.
    Your fixation on things that are completely irrelevant, straw men if you will, is pretty astounding.
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    (Original post by Made in the USA)
    Bull

    Go ahead and try to reinstate the death penalty, as some US states have

    You can't because it's against EU law.
    We wouldn't do that because the death penalty = wrong.
    But actually EU law is defined through a process where each country/state has an opinion... But as the person above me has explained fairly well, we actually COULD change our laws how we like if we so wished; whereas if the US Supreme Court banned the death penalty, there would be nothing the individual states could do about it and they would have to follow.
    We are nothing like how the states is, at all.
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    (Original post by Made in the USA)
    Bull

    Go ahead and try to reinstate the death penalty, as some US states have

    You can't because it's against EU law.
    Those EU states are willingly part of the EU, if they wanted to leave and instate the death penalty they would do.
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    (Original post by Lewis :D)
    We don't really study a lot of British history in the UK. It's mainly Continental European and American.
    This is a gripe of mine. Although we don't do a huge amount of British history, we do ridiculous amounts of European history that invariably involves the UK. Whilst I appreciate that it's hard to find a war that the UK hasn't been involved in, a little more world and non-eurocentric/anglocentric history would have been nice.

    Anyway, /offtopicrant.
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    (Original post by tieyourmotherdown)
    This is a gripe of mine. Although we don't do a huge amount of British history, we do ridiculous amounts of European history that invariably involves the UK. Whilst I appreciate that it's hard to find a war that the UK hasn't been involved in, a little more world and non-eurocentric/anglocentric history would have been nice.

    Anyway, /offtopicrant.
    I would've liked to have learnt more Asian history, I didn't really want to learn about the Native Americans or the foreign policy of Germany to be honest :lol:
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    Those EU states are willingly part of the EU, if they wanted to leave and instate the death penalty they would do.
    At immense economic cost. Not that I'm for the DP or anything just don't buy your reasoning.
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    Why is it that in America, the government can kill prisoners, the ordinary man in the street can get a gun to make himself feel safe (still don't understand that one), you can incite violence and possibly murder by burning a koran, but you can't even swear on Radio and TV? What's the matter? It's not nice? Somebody could get upset? We can, within well controlled environments, after 9pm etc. American culture is just plain screwed up!
Updated: November 26, 2011
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