State of California spends 5X more on prisons than schools
S
The American justice system goes a bit like this:
1. Corporate interests lobby Congress and State legislatures to privatise prisons under the guise that they will be run efficiently and at a lower cost than public prisons.
2. Prisons are privatised, leading to handsome profits in new, large prisons with thousands of inmates where efficiencies can be made.
That in and of itself is fine by me, but here comes the bad part:
3. Corporate interests want to maximise the amount of profit they make so lobby Congress and State legislatures to pass new laws and toughen up sentencing for old laws under the guise of cracking down on crime.
4. Corporate interests now have even more prisoners at already very large prisons, leading to more profits based on the efficiency of these prisons and government payments per prisoner. Many of the prisoners are there for very minor offences that would result in a community sentence anywhere else in the free world, and are often there for a substantial period of time (a matter of years).
5. Corporate interests put prisoners to work under the guise of "skills training" for cents an hour, sometimes for nothing at all, often manufacturing goods that are designed by another arm of the conglomerate owning the prison!
6. State legislatures and Congress still end up paying out of the nose to fund the expansion of these prisons, because as more prisoners are sent there, for longer sentences, they have to pay more per head to the corporations.
7. Private companies now have a cheap, captive labour source and massive taxpayer subsidies - the perfect con.
Forget a military-industrial complex, there's a very serious judiciary-commercial complex going on. It's akin to indentured servitude, except that it's even worse since you're in a prison, often for the silliest of crimes, rather than on a punitive contract with a reward at the end of it. This is what happens when you let corporations become too close to government.
1. Corporate interests lobby Congress and State legislatures to privatise prisons under the guise that they will be run efficiently and at a lower cost than public prisons.
2. Prisons are privatised, leading to handsome profits in new, large prisons with thousands of inmates where efficiencies can be made.
That in and of itself is fine by me, but here comes the bad part:
3. Corporate interests want to maximise the amount of profit they make so lobby Congress and State legislatures to pass new laws and toughen up sentencing for old laws under the guise of cracking down on crime.
4. Corporate interests now have even more prisoners at already very large prisons, leading to more profits based on the efficiency of these prisons and government payments per prisoner. Many of the prisoners are there for very minor offences that would result in a community sentence anywhere else in the free world, and are often there for a substantial period of time (a matter of years).
5. Corporate interests put prisoners to work under the guise of "skills training" for cents an hour, sometimes for nothing at all, often manufacturing goods that are designed by another arm of the conglomerate owning the prison!
6. State legislatures and Congress still end up paying out of the nose to fund the expansion of these prisons, because as more prisoners are sent there, for longer sentences, they have to pay more per head to the corporations.
7. Private companies now have a cheap, captive labour source and massive taxpayer subsidies - the perfect con.
Forget a military-industrial complex, there's a very serious judiciary-commercial complex going on. It's akin to indentured servitude, except that it's even worse since you're in a prison, often for the silliest of crimes, rather than on a punitive contract with a reward at the end of it. This is what happens when you let corporations become too close to government.
(edited 12 years ago)
The title's a bit misleading: California spends 3 times more on schools than on prisons, but 5 times more per prisoner than per school pupil. Here its closer to 7 to 1.
America has more people in prison per capita than any other nation on the planet.
Land of the free eh?
Land of the free eh?
Original post by Teknik
Thye need to spend what they need to spend, and children are not locked up in schools 24/7 under armed guards etc. So obviously the figure will be higher.
Erm whats the big deal ?
Erm whats the big deal ?
That's absolutely true. This should be obvious to any idiot - except that's not the point of the thread. The point of this thread is to be a student, shake one's head in ignorant cynicism and say "a sad state of affairs...." without giving any thought whatsoever to the realities.
Those realities are that prisons have to hold people, some of whom are very dangerous, and stop them from escaping. You can have one teacher in a room full of 30 students who are physically free to come and go as they will. You could not have that situation with prisons and prisoners.
Original post by Clip
That's absolutely true. This should be obvious to any idiot - except that's not the point of the thread. The point of this thread is to be a student, shake one's head in ignorant cynicism and say "a sad state of affairs...." without giving any thought whatsoever to the realities.
Those realities are that prisons have to hold people, some of whom are very dangerous, and stop them from escaping. You can have one teacher in a room full of 30 students who are physically free to come and go as they will. You could not have that situation with prisons and prisoners.
Those realities are that prisons have to hold people, some of whom are very dangerous, and stop them from escaping. You can have one teacher in a room full of 30 students who are physically free to come and go as they will. You could not have that situation with prisons and prisoners.
Personally I would pay an extra couple of quid in tax if it allowed us to keep violent prisoners locked up for longer.
Original post by el scampio
America has more people in prison per capita than any other nation on the planet.
Land of the free eh?
Land of the free eh?
As opposed to countries like China, where they keep the prison population down by just shooting people, or India where there is no effective law enforcement, or France where detection rates are absurdly low, or Israel where they just let you out after a while?
Original post by Clip
As opposed to countries like China, where they keep the prison population down by just shooting people, or India where there is no effective law enforcement, or France where detection rates are absurdly low, or Israel where they just let you out after a while?
When do they shoot people in China to keep the prison population down?
or do you just mean they execute people.
(edited 12 years ago)
Original post by Teknik
Personally I would pay an extra couple of quid in tax if it allowed us to keep violent prisoners locked up for longer.
Well, I think most people would. However, Americans have a system which means that 70% of people in Prison are there for non-violent offences.
Original post by DorianGrayism
When do they shoot people in China to keep the prison population down?
All the time. China has more executions than the rest of the world combined, and is one of the few states that still has the death penalty for children.
Original post by Clip
All the time. China has more executions than the rest of the world combined, and is one of the few states that still has the death penalty for children.
I don't see how the execution of a several thousand people a year is the reason for their lower prison population. Also, the United States also execute people, so I don't see where you are coming from.
(edited 12 years ago)
Original post by DorianGrayism
Well, I think most people would. However, Americans have a system which means that 70% of people in Prison are there for non-violent offences.
Which I do not agree with. However I fully agree with Americas attitude of lock em up and throw away the key for murderers, rapists, and violent offenders.
Original post by Clip
All the time. China has more executions than the rest of the world combined, and is one of the few states that still has the death penalty for children.
China's ****ed up.
The obvious truth is that, while a school child is supervised and taught for a few hours a day, prisons must provide accommodation, a greater amount of meals a day and pay the security staff. Of course it's going to cost more than a school. Jesus.
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