[FaminePulse]

I have no problem with Feminism in principle, or at least I have no problem with the version of Feminism that is basically synonymous with equal opportunities for men and women. Those versions which seek to afford women unjustified privilege, villify men, or try to deny fundamental differences between the sexes, I loathe. It's feminists themselves or rather the arguments that feminists typically make that are the problem - as they tend to be utterly bereft of logical thought. For example, I have heard it said many times by feminists the following kind of argument -

`There exists a pay gap between men and women. Therefore this pay gap is due to sexism on the part of men'.

or

`Men think we should take precautions to avoid being raped. Therefore men justify rape and think rapists aren't to blame'

or

`Men view women sexually. Therefore, men ONLY view women sexually and do not perceive them in any other light'

I'm not even strawmanning here, after looking closely at the kind of logic involved in many feminist arguments, this is literally the kind of logical structure the arguments take. A, therefore B. It's its own distinct branch of logic, Feminist Logic, where conclusions needn't follow from premises, counterarguments are hysterically misrepresented, and inconvenient but important facts are ignored.

I really think that feminists themselves (or at least the more vocal ones) are the greatest barrier to Feminism receiving support. Also more feminists need to take a crash course in Logic so they can start to form logically valid views.

[DOA]

I have heard the first arguement about the pay gap before (which I can actually argue back to) but nobody seriously says the second and third arguement, do they?

I prefer something based on gender equlity rather than feminism because its in the name, feminism tend to protect the rights of women despite what disadvantage it might give to men in the same area.

[Aack]

I agree with you. But it's good to give them something to moan about whilst the world pretends it cares.

[minacolada]

(Original post by FaminePulse)
X.

I've read a little on feminism but literally nothing using the above solely as justifications or to draw conclusions like that from.

The third isn't really a feminist thing and more of a silly person thing; I've met lots of girls who think everyone fancies them, or that just because I'm gay I'll fancy them

[Electronica]

I thought the pay gap was a factor of risk the company takes in case a woman goes off on maternity leave. A bit like higher insurance prices for young male drivers. It sounds pretty fair to me - I'm not gonna want to pay a woman who does nothing for half a year.

[DOA]

(Original post by minacolada)
I've read a little on feminism but literally nothing using the above solely as justifications or to draw conclusions like that from.

The third isn't really a feminist thing and more of a silly person thing; I've met lots of girls who think everyone fancies them, or that just because I'm gay I'll fancy them

slightly off topic but I dont get the whole your gay so your fancy EVERYONE of the same gender, im not gay but I have noticed it, any idea why it happens?

I also met a girl who thought everyone fancied her, told everyone this boy facied her including her boyfriend, the boyfriend told the boy to back off needless to say the boy corrected the girl very harshly

[lenalouiseh]

I completely agree with you. It seems people have lost sight of the actual definition of feminism as advocating rights for women that are equal to those of men. Many 'feminists' preach that women are superior to men in this and that respect, but surely this defeats the object of feminism? If feminism ventures too far over the border of equality, into the land of sexism, we would need a counter 'masculist movement' just to balance it out.

[DOA]

(Original post by Electronica)
I thought the pay gap was a factor of risk the company takes in case a woman goes off on maternity leave. A bit like higher insurance prices for young male drivers. It sounds pretty fair to me - I'm not gonna want to pay a woman who does nothing for half a year.

I heard it was because alot of women go part time or take mat leave (therefore missing pay increases, which their male collegues get but I might be wrong about mat leave). I think the insurance thing is unfair because its considering someone on a factor they were born with without any evidence they are a bad driver

[TheWorldEndsWithMe]

(Original post by Electronica)
I thought the pay gap was a factor of risk the company takes in case a woman goes off on maternity leave. A bit like higher insurance prices for young male drivers. It sounds pretty fair to me - I'm not gonna want to pay a woman who does nothing for half a year.

I actually agree with this point, but it seems horribly unfair on women who don't want/can't have/etc children.

[screenager2004]

(Original post by FaminePulse)
x

This is total strawmanning. Feminists don't think this. Only idiots who call themselves feminists think this. I'm quite shocked you think feminists are this stupid.

[limetang]

(Original post by TheWorldEndsWithMe)
I actually agree with this point, but it seems horribly unfair on women who don't want/can't have/etc children.

I agree, but I suppose you can argue it's impossible for the company to know which women are going choose not to have children etc.

Long story short. It's a difficult one. Personally I think it is wrong to generalise a group like that, but at the same time it isn't like those generalisations are baseless. They are for the most part a fact of a woman's biology. So yeah it's tricky.

[Ice Constricter]

Probably the idiotic radical feminists think the things you said. I mean who believes the bull**** that lesbo radical feminists have to say?

[minacolada]

(Original post by Ice Constricter)
Probably the idiotic radical feminists think the things you said. I mean who believes the bull**** lesbo radical feminists say?

Yeah because all feminists are lesbians/lesbians are feminists

[Ice Constricter]

(Original post by minacolada)
Yeah because all feminists are lesbians/lesbians are feminists

You clearly missed my point, I'm actually sticking up for feminists by saying it's not all feminists but the RADICAL ones that believe what the OP said. And since RADICAL feminists aren't rational I don't feel the need to be rational when describing them.
Do you even know what a radical feminist is?

[DScofield]

I agree, I find it quite amusing.

[TheWorldEndsWithMe]

(Original post by limetang)
I agree, but I suppose you can argue it's impossible for the company to know which women are going choose not to have children etc.

Long story short. It's a difficult one. Personally I think it is wrong to generalise a group like that, but at the same time it isn't like those generalisations are baseless. They are for the most part a fact of a woman's biology. So yeah it's tricky.

Yeah, I understand what you mean :/ If they asked them if they were planning on having any it's very easy to lie or have a change of heart...

It's a tricky one for sure.

[Snagprophet]

The thing is, with the driving insurance they raised it for young men, and to make it equal they raised it for women too. Why not just drop it?

[tazarooni89]

(Original post by DOA)
I have heard the first arguement about the pay gap before (which I can actually argue back to) but nobody seriously says the second and third arguement, do they?

I've heard the second one a lot.
In fact, I think the whole "slutwalk" protest appears to be based on this sort of logic. A police officer suggests women should take precaution against being raped, and suddenly he's made out to be a victim-blamer.

[DOA]

(Original post by tazarooni89)
I've heard the second one a lot.
In fact, I think the whole "slutwalk" protest appears to be based on this sort of logic. A police officer suggests women should take precaution against being raped, and suddenly he's made out to be a victim-blamer.

what sort of precautions can women take apart from the same as every man who doesnt want to be a victim of violent crime:
- stay in a group
- dont show off your phone/ipod/camera
- if you dont feel safe get away from the situation
- always know the nearest place for help

Ok 2 isnt applicable to this but 1,3 and 4 are

[Ham22]

don't advertise your vagina in public.