TSR Catholic Society

Thanks for the input, it really is interesting hearing the wide variety of opinions

Also, welcome to the society I saw from your post you have some doubts. If it's just general doubts then I think (as a mathematician) you may enjoy Oxford's Professor of Mathematics and Christian apologist Professor John Lennox (look him up on YouTube), if it's doubts about Catholicism we can usually cobble something together between us, and if we can't then Yawn, one of our members (away for a couple of weeks ATM though) can usually answer them (she's a genius, seriously)

But I need some sleep now so don't expect a reply till tomorrow

I suppose I'm trying to come to terms with my sinful nature, sometimes I feel so down, like I can't live with myself at all.

Hey Adam.

After I spoke quite favourably of the CU at my uni, and I told you I was leading a Bible study group.

I think you may be interested in what's happened since. I let slip (for some reason) to the person in charge of all the Bible study groups that I was a Catholic, and in particular that I didn't accept 'salvation through faith alone'. That didn't go down very well, and she sent someone to try and convince me otherwise, who, after we had a very civil, polite discussion, made it clear that it was his opinion that I believed a heresy, and that this belief if I couldn't change my mind would make me unsuitable to be a leader.

So I've ended up resigning as a Bible study leader, particularly because of all this and also because the girl who I was leading a group with was also in trouble for having a non-Christian boyfriend (but that's a separate issue!)

It feels a bit like I'm just slagging them off, but that's not the case. I really disagree with their views on this, but they honestly believe what they are doing is right and have been ever so nice about it all. But I guess my point is, if you do want to get involved in the CU at your uni, then good for you. But be wary of taking leadership positions, as they're not quite as 'non-denominational' as they would like to make out!

Hey Adam.

After I spoke quite favourably of the CU at my uni, and I told you I was leading a Bible study group.

I think you may be interested in what's happened since. I let slip (for some reason) to the person in charge of all the Bible study groups that I was a Catholic, and in particular that I didn't accept 'salvation through faith alone'. That didn't go down very well, and she sent someone to try and convince me otherwise, who, after we had a very civil, polite discussion, made it clear that it was his opinion that I believed a heresy, and that this belief if I couldn't change my mind would make me unsuitable to be a leader.

So I've ended up resigning as a Bible study leader, particularly because of all this and also because the girl who I was leading a group with was also in trouble for having a non-Christian boyfriend (but that's a separate issue!)

It feels a bit like I'm just slagging them off, but that's not the case. I really disagree with their views on this, but they honestly believe what they are doing is right and have been ever so nice about it all. But I guess my point is, if you do want to get involved in the CU at your uni, then good for you. But be wary of taking leadership positions, as they're not quite as 'non-denominational' as they would like to make out!

I don't post in here, though I probably should.

How do you guys deal with dark thoughts? By that I mean doubts about the faith and the Gospel. I haven't prayed in a while because I keep being filled with doubts and these dark thoughts when I go to do it, then comes the inevitable guilt, self-hate and angst. I want to be a good Catholic again, please give me some comforting words

The Lonely Goatherd's advice is excellent



I got another reply from that chaplain!

It's in the spoiler below



There seems to be few Catholic students in that case.

x

x

x

Thanks for the advice and your kind words. I sturggle with self mastery, even though I know that when it goes all the darkness will come back, my depression and my eating disorder. I feel more comfortable posting in here because I won't get any abusive posts like you get in H&R, although you can't posting anonymously. I will look at the links you've posted and try to pray again, I feel like I've shut Jesus out of my life in the last few months and I want to go back. Again, thank you for your kindness.

That's mighty interesting, but also a tad worrying. I'm curious, did they not know you were a Catholic before or did they just not know which denomination you were? Also seems a bit over the top of them sending a 'heavy' round, how did you batter them off? Just out of curiosity how do these Bible studies groups work? And Yawn is right, scripture must be read as a totality, not as individual quotes.

That really stinks, my friend! How dare someone telll you that not adhering to "sola fide" is a heresy. Grrrr...I'm absolutely incandescent with rage. The problem with much of the 'solas' is that texts are wrenched out of context and looked at as stand alone statements. Scripture is composed of both the Old and New Testaments and understanding in coming to the truth involves referring to the two.

Of course there is another very important matter that is involved here. You are being excluded from being a youth leader because Catholic doctrine conflicts with Protestant doctrine. Christianity is not confined to Protestantism...it is a 'broad church' so to speak. We were here first! You really need to fight this as it is a very dangerous precedence for any person to allow to be made. Arm yourself with as much information, knowledge etc as you can and go back and challenge. Who knows, this person might even be called to convert to Catholicism once you've finished with him.

This link is a start: http://www.askacatholic.com/holyquotes/documents/_all_catholic_verses.htm#faithplusworks

We've also had a mega debate starting with Sola Scriptura which evolved to include 'sola fide' 'sola gracie' and others...and in all modesty, no one could contest my contributions with enough veracity to encourage them to continue the debate.

You'll have to go back through the archives in the search facility to find it...it was around a year ago. If I can find it, I'll edit this post to include it.

Oh, and don't forget to have a word with the Holy Spirit asking for guidance before you enter the fray. Have you had a word with the Catholic Chaplaincy at your uni? They might want to take this matter up, as it's very serious, regardless of how 'friendly' your antagonists were.

Edit: Found the thread! http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=732693&highlight=sola+scriptura It's a long one but there's a wealth of Catholic teaching contained in it that will help you enormously in attacking some protestant doctrines whilst defending Catholic ones. Re salvation by faith alone - see my post # 96 et seq on the linked thread.

What's your opinion on Ephesians 2:1-10, Romans 3:20-28 and John 3:1-21? Apologies if you've addressed them already in the links you gave me, I don't have time to read them yet, but I look forward to reading them later.

John 3:16 is an important verse with an interesting twist that doesn't immediately appear in the English translation. I asked my friend if he had ever looked carefully at the tenses of the action words in John 3:16. He hadn't, and because his tradition tells him that one-time-belief is the basis of salvation, he automatically understood John to mean that, by a momentary mental assent to Christ, one could be assured of eternal security and be guaranteed a place in heaven.

I unpacked the verse to give him the information he lacked, the same insight I had lacked all my life before I began looking into the claims of the Catholic Church.

Before we start, I should say a little about action words. In Greek, the language of the New Testament, there are many tenses for verbs. We will discuss two: aorist and present. To put it simply, the Aorist tense describes one point in time, [Aorist Tense: The aorist tense is characterized by its emphasis on punctiliar action; that is, the concept of the verb is considered without regard for past, present, or future time. There is no direct or clear English equivalent for this tense, though it is generally rendered as a simple past tense in most translations. The events described by the aorist tense are classified into a number of categories by grammarians. The three most common of these are (1) a view of the action as having begun from a certain point ("inceptive aorist"), or (2) having ended at a certain point ("cumulative aorist"), or (3) merely existing at a certain point ("punctiliar aorist"). The categorization of other cases can be found in Greek reference grammars. The English reader need not concern himself with most of these finer points concerning the aorist tense, since in most cases they cannot be rendered accurately in English translation, being fine points of Greek exegesis only. The common practice of rendering an aorist by a simple English past tense suffices in most cases.] while the present tense is used for current, ongoing action.[Present Tense: According to Dana and Manatee in their Manual Grammar of the Greek New Testament, "The fundamental significance of the present tense is the idea of progress. It is the linear tense . . . the progressive force of the present tense should always be considered as primary, especially with reference to the potential moods, which in the nature of the case do not need any 'present punctiliar' tense." Narrowing it down further, they say, "There are three varieties of the present tense in which its fundamental idea of progress is especially patent. Under 'the progressive present: "This use is manifestly nearest the root idea of the tense. It signifies action in progress , or state of persistence." In short the present tense expresses ongoing action in the present time.] Another way of contrasting the two is to think of Aorist as being geometrically represented by a point, and present by a continuous line. With this basic understanding, lets look at John 3:16:

"For God so loved [aorist, a past point in time] the world, that he gave [aorist, a past point in time] his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth [present, current, progressive action] in him should not perish [aorist, a past point in time], but have [present, current, progressive action] everlasting life."

The present tense, "that whosoever believeth in him," or in other words, "that whosoever is believing in Him" sheds a different light on the entire verse. One would expect, according to Protestant tradition, the word "believe" to be aorist, showing that it is a "one-point-in-time" event. I used to say, "I believed in Christ on such and such a date, so I know I am saved." It could be asked why Jesus switched to the present tense in a verse full of aorists. The answer is that Jesus makes it utterly clear what he is really trying to say; that this belief is an acting, continual belief, and not just a past act of faith.

Notice that "have everlasting life" is also in the present tense. It does not say you will have eternal life in the past or future, but that you will currently be having eternal life. One Greek grammar [James Hewitt, New Testament Greek Hedrickson Publishers,1986).13.] explains the present tense in this way, "The present tense is basically linear or durative, ongoing in its kind of action. The durative notion may be expressed graphically by an unbroken line, since the action is simply continuous. This is known as the progressive present. Refinements of this general rule will be encountered; however, the fundamental distinction will not be negated." Applying this definition here, he who is currently, habitually and continuously believing will be currently and presently having eternal life.

Next, I asked him to consider whether the word translated "believe" means a mere mental assent. The word in biblical times carried with it the concept of obedience and reliance. Kittel [Gerhard Kittel, Theological Dictionary of the NewTestament Eerdmans, 1968] states, "pisteuo means 'to trust' (also 'to obey')." Vines [W. E. Vines, An Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words (Nashville: Thomas Nelson Publishers, 1984)] says, "[R]eliance upon, not mere credence." This is confirmed further by John the Baptist's statement in John 3:36, "He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not (apeitheo) the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him." The word "apeitheo" is understood by all good translators and commentators to mean obedience. The opposite (antonym) of believe is disobey. The verse in the RSV says, "He who believes in the Son . . . he who disobeys the Son . . ." The NASB translates the verse as, "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him." Kittel, a Protestant reference work, clearly defines apeitheo to mean "to be disobedient." The word belief has the element of obedience wrapped in its arms and the opposite of biblical belief is disobedience.

Where I used to say, "I believed in Christ on such and such a date, so I know I am saved" I now say, "I did believe in Christ, I am believing in Christ, and I am being saved." My Fundamentalist friend has never responded to my explanation of these verses. I hope someday he will see past the high walls of his Fundamentalist traditions and see the great beauty and wisdom of the Church founded by Jesus Christ.

Oh, also, who has seen this in Preston? It's wonderful to see Bothers me slightly that Our Lord is being carried around in a sports bag though

Thank you for sharing this. Have to agree that the Eucharist could have been carried in something more spiritual.

brothers. i was hoping some of you can help me. i am feeling very sorry for myself.

for the longest while i have felt i am called to have relationships and be married, but not necessarily to have children, and certainly not lots of chilren.

i am 25, and all my friends are now engaged or in long term relationships. since i converted to catholicicsm for many years i have not met any dude that respects that i want to reserve intimacy for marriage, i also dont belive in contraception (does anyone else actually follow this??) and instead all dudes cheat loads on me and make nasty fun of me.

all my friends and workmates think i am homosexual and enjoy women and breasts and nudey lady-bits and things because i have not had any boyfriend for many many years. they also think i am very weird and extremeist.

so yeah im pretty lonely and not having any prospects for dating cute dudes. but im thinking if i was called to the single and >lifelong celibate< life, i wouldnt feel as sad and lonely looking at all my mates paired up and cuddling on FB.

i have been discernign my vocation fo a few years. do you tink there is such thing as being called to be single? or it it mainly the default if you cant find anyone to mate with.

brothers. i was hoping some of you can help me. i am feeling very sorry for myself.

You're living in the london area, right? Get involved with the youth side of Westminster.
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