TSR Catholic Society

Thought I would come and have a look at this following your suggestion in another thread. I was surprised to read what you said about abortion. I have always been taught that abortion is wrong in all circumstances, well permissable if it is a secondary result of another treatment e.g. removal of burst fallopian tube in etopic pregnancy, but not as a primary result of action. Has this changed? Strange really as you seem to be more traditional than me in relation to birth control so I was surprised to see you suggesting abortion is permissable.

I would be interested in any information you have on this.

Killing an embryo while in the uterus or removing an unviable foetus from the uterus with the intent and purpose to end its life is considered an abortion, and this is my stance.

Treating a life-threatening, pathological condition that indirectly results in the unborn child dying naturally is considered a tragedy but not an abortion; and you give a good example in the case of ectopic pregnancy.

I do not advocate any or all direct abortions. It's not a question of who lives or who dies. It's not a battle of mother versus child.

OK your position is the same as mine

As I said, in cases of imminent death during pregnancy due to pathological causes, the need for treatment of the mother, even though it results in death of the embryo/foetus is paramount.

How would you view a case where aborting the baby was the only way to save the mother? Say woman develops some sort of heart problem, doctors say to continue with the pregnancy would be fatal, there isn't a treatment that is going to enable her to continue with the pregnancy. Difficult case I know, and I suppose rare, but would you go with aborting the baby or think she has to place her life in God's hands?

I personally know of a woman that this scenario happened to. She developed rheumatic fever in the first trimester of her pregnancy. She was told that the burden of the pregnancy would put an intolerable strain on her heart and that she should have the baby aborted since she was risking her life...and might even deprive her other five children of their mother.

She rejected the advice, resisted the guilt feeling that she felt she was being manipulated to a certain extent by, and carried on to deliver a healthy child at full term. She recovered herself and despite having to take prophylactic penicillin from time to time is able to lead a full, active and fulfilling life being a mother (and now a grandmother too.)

The thing is, flump, that doctors can get it wrong and if this mother had listened to them she would have aborted a child for no good reason.

What would I do if it were me? I would do as she did, and put my trust in God rather than my doctor. That, after all, is what faith is...trust that God is with you.

However, Do not use some anecdotal evidence as a way to make medical decisions!

yeah i see your anecdote point

but im not telling people what they should or shouldn't do...which is what doctors are doing..which is what really concerns me...and yes their suggestions are based on *some* knowledge...but they are by no means expected to foresee the future or whatever...

i feel that whatever my view on abortions etc i will talk about to people and possibly influence them if they want to discuss it..if they dont want to then i think i can remain objective....my concern is that some doctors excert far more influence over people who arent as informed as them so some people seem not always to realise the element of choice they do have...doctors can be very persuasive i feel and almost pressurise people into things (sometimes for better, sometimes for worse...i feel)

do u see my point?? i dont really know the extent of the "problem" as i percieve it...and sometimes as i have said the influence of doctors over people can be for their benefit (like pushing people into an operation they really need, when they are obviously uncertain probs because scared of the the operation/consequences, kinda happened with my mum, that was the surgeons though not the medics...they had their own private arguement going on :P )

what do u think bout this?? i suppose at the end of the day..doctors are just doing their best..but i suppose the fact that doctors that oppose abortions probably opt out and refer/dont see most of these cases(eg work in a different dewpartment) then its the doctors who have no problems with abortion that these women are seeing????

(sorry if these seems to have gone vaguely off topic...it is due to my concern about people being pushed into abortions!)

Ah ok, some might do this, but doctors CAN physically only advise! The old days of doctor knows best now shut up are gone. Are any of you seriously trying to say a doctor forced a needle into you/pushed you into an operating theatre without permission etc? Of course not.

Ah ok, some might do this, but doctors CAN physically only advise! The old days of doctor knows best now shut up are gone. Are any of you seriously trying to say a doctor forced a needle into you/pushed you into an operating theatre without permission etc? Of course not.