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abortion at 24 weeks is murder.

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Reply 200
'Born' depicts it it outside the womb and not solely dependent on the mother for nourishment and such.
Reply 201
Original post by Steevee
Eugh, this same old tripe?

What you neglect to mention is that the baby only survived because of advanced medical techniques and the prowess of the doctors tending to it. Had it been born and raised naturally it would have died. So are we now going to say if science can let it live then to not let it live is murder? There has to be a line, and the line is from where a baby can naturally survive, however unlikely.


I'm sorry are you being serious? Most births now are subject to argueable 'advanced medical techniques', anyway the baby still survived, that in itself is proof 24 weeks to too late.
Reply 202
Original post by Amwazicles
That's a ridiculous argument. :rolleyes: The day before it's due date, they can still abort the baby? Halfway through labour, before it's fully out? Once it's passed but the umbilical cord is still connected?


Yes I say a day before due date they should be allowed to abort the baby.
You can't be serious halfway through labour??? it would be too dangerous for the mother.
Once it has passed it is not in the womb even if the umbilical cord is connected so it is born so there is no way to abort the baby.
Reply 203
Original post by DdotT
I'm sorry are you being serious? Most births now are subject to argueable 'advanced medical techniques', anyway the baby still survived, that in itself is proof 24 weeks to too late.


Yes, this I know. But there is a difference between normal post-natal care and the sort of intensive care that these early births require, along with various complications that are very common and so on.
Original post by nju
Yes I say a day before due date they should be allowed to abort the baby.
You can't be serious halfway through labour??? it would be too dangerous for the mother.
Once it has passed it is not in the womb even if the umbilical cord is connected so it is born so there is no way to abort the baby.


So if it wasn't too dangerous for the mother? What if - and I wouldn't wish it on anyone - the mother died during labour. Would the father then have the right to choose to abort the baby before it was fully born (and therefore knowing there was no risk of [further] harm to the mother)? At what point does the baby go from being 'in the womb' to being 'born'?
I think you have to consider, whether it'd be better for the fetus to be terminated than to be brought into a world where it is not wanted. Also i think you have to consider it from the women perspective, theres something growing inside you, your body, shouldn't it be on whether the woman feels that she can handle having something completely dependent on her. I mean although they say that the partner can help etc, its really only down to the woman who will be carrying the child for 9 months on whether she wants to or not. You shouldn't force women to have children. However, of course it is their responsibility that they ensure they don't cause unnecessary terminations by taking the correct precautions.
Original post by Amwazicles
If you're saying that, though, couldn't you also say that it's perfectly acceptable to let any elderly person with a medical condition die if they are becoming inconvenient, because they wouldn't survive 'naturally'?

I don't necessarily believe this personally, just putting it out there :tongue:


True, but another human being doesn't have to act as life support by carrying an elderly person in their uterus (with all of the side effects and risk that entails).

Personally, I think it should take fairly exceptional circumstances for an abortion to occur at 24 weeks, but I'll remind everyone here that that is already the case.

- These abortions require more justification in law than simply "I want one" - there has to be danger to the women's health, or reason to suspect the child will be born with disability (although this second clause should be made more specific imo).

- Only 0.6% of abortions take place in the 22 week to 24 week period.


People make a huge fuss over this issue - but imo the emphasis should not be on villifying abortion but on preventing the circumstances which lead to it. And also in speeding up the abortion process - women (and foetuses, from a moral standpoint) should not have to wait weeks for an abortion.
(edited 12 years ago)
Abortion IS murder at any time
Original post by diving_queen

I have always and will always firmly stand by the belief that an aborted fetus is better than an unwanted child. If the child is despised by the parents, it will not have a nice life. (Yes, sometimes people decide against abortion and end up loving their child, but this is not always the case).

Don't come on here and use the word murder when discussing abortion. It's one of the hardest things any woman will go through in her lifetime.


this.
Original post by nju
Yes I say a day before due date they should be allowed to abort the baby.
You can't be serious halfway through labour??? it would be too dangerous for the mother.
Once it has passed it is not in the womb even if the umbilical cord is connected so it is born so there is no way to abort the baby.


An abortion at full term would involve the mother giving birth with all of the same risks as if the baby were alive.

So what you propose would mean killing the baby despite:

- No reduction in risk to mother
- Baby not dependant on the mother for survival or even normal health

You could argue for the mother's right to induce her delivery (ie: no longer be pregnant), but not really to abort at full term. There is no practical difference between what you suggest and infanticide.
I watched a documentary about premature births such as those at 24 weeks...
and whilst I believe abortion at 24 weeks IS murder, the horror some of these babies go through being born prematurely and the lack of budget contributed to their wellbeing is shocking.
Reply 211
What I am trying to argue is that no one has any right to make a pregnant mother keep her baby. It should be her decision if and when she wants to abort the baby. Surely the mother will know if she is ready for a baby or not

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