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C1 Circles help please

Hi, I was just going through the C1 topic, and taking some questions to do to 'test' myself as preparation for my mock. And I came across these questions which I don't understand what it's asking, and I would be grateful if someone could help.

1. Verify that the circle with equation + -2rx -2ry + = 0 touches both coordinate axes. Find the radii of the two circles which pass through the point (16,2) and touch both coordinate axes.

I understand that there is one circle, where its equation is stated, but then it mentions the "radii of the two circles"?

I started by factorising - (x-r)² + (y-r)² + - 2r² = 0. So the eq of the circle is (x-r)² + (y-r)² = r². But how does this show that the circle touches both coordinate axes?

2. It is given that the circle +y² - 14x 10y + c = 0 lies wholly in the first quadrant. Show that 49 < c < 74.

What does it mean by "lies wholly in the first quadrant" and what should I do?

Thanks in advance for the help!
(edited 12 years ago)

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Reply 1
Given your

(xr)2+(yr)2=r2(x-r)^2 + (y-r)^2 = r^2

What is the centre of that circle ... how far away from the co-ordinate axes is that ... how does that show that it touches the axes?
Reply 2
Note that a circle touches a line just when there is only one point of intersection between them, i.e. when the simultaneous equations for the circle and the line have exactly one solution.
Reply 3
And for the second part ... you have an equation for a circle and you know a value of one (x,y) put that point in and solve for r
Reply 4
Original post by TenOfThem
Given your

(xr)2+(yr)2=r2(x-r)^2 + (y-r)^2 = r^2

What is the centre of that circle ... how far away from the co-ordinate axes is that ... how does that show that it touches the axes?


Well the centre of the circle is then r,r with a radius of r. But I don't get why it shows it :/
Reply 5
Original post by tommm
Note that a circle touches a line just when there is only one point of intersection between them, i.e. when the simultaneous equations for the circle and the line have exactly one solution.


So..x² + -2rx -2ry + = 0 if you substitute x = 0 (the y axis) then you get 0 + - 0 - 2ry + = 0. So - 2ry + = 0. Then b²-4ac = 0?

So (-2r)² - 4 (1) (r²) = 0

So 4r² - 4r² = 0. So r = 0. But though I can do that, I don't see why that shows that the circle touches both axes?
Reply 6
Original post by MedicalMayhem
Well the centre of the circle is then r,r with a radius of r. But I don't get why it shows it :/


really?

how far from the x-axis is the centre, how far is the y-axis from the centre

try a sketch
Reply 7
Original post by MedicalMayhem
So..x² + -2rx -2ry + = 0 if you substitute x = 0 (the y axis) then you get 0 + - 0 - 2ry + = 0. So - 2ry + = 0. Then b²-4ac = 0?


Very good, by showing the discriminant is zero you've shown that there's only one solution, and hence the circle touches the y axis.

Now do exactly the same with y = 0, and you're done.
Reply 8
Original post by TenOfThem
really?

how far from the x-axis is the centre, how far is the y-axis from the centre

try a sketch


Oh yeah! An extremely stupid moment :/ So once you've determined that the circle touches both axes, what is it asking concerning that point? To make another circle that touches both axes - but how is that possible? As at (16,2) it's nearer to y than x?

Original post by tommm
Very good, by showing the discriminant is zero you've shown that there's only one solution, and hence the circle touches the y axis.

Now do exactly the same with y = 0, and you're done.


Ah okay, so in an exam should I just show what both the radius/centre of circle are? Or should I show by doing b²-4ac?

How would I do the last part of that question?
Reply 9
post 4
Original post by TenOfThem
post 4


Ah yes, so I ended up getting r = 26 and 10. So these are just the radii for two circles that cross through (16,2)?

Also, how would you do the second question?
The second question

Sketch a circle wholly in the first quadrant

Lets say a circle with centre (6,9) ... it does not reach the axes so what can you say about the length of r?
Original post by TenOfThem
The second question

Sketch a circle wholly in the first quadrant

Lets say a circle with centre (6,9) ... it does not reach the axes so what can you say about the length of r?


Then r is less than 6. (Both axes or just one?)

And what does wholly in the first quadrant mean?
ok so r is less than 6 in my example :smile:

now use your question to find the centre of the circle ... it will give you an expression using c for r so you can apply the same understanding to that



wholly in the first quadrant means it is all in the first quadrant
Original post by TenOfThem
ok so r is less than 6 in my example :smile:

now use your question to find the centre of the circle ... it will give you an expression using c for r so you can apply the same understanding to that



wholly in the first quadrant means it is all in the first quadrant


So, + - 14x - 10y + c = 0

Centre of circle = 7,5

=> (x-7)² + (y-5)² = 74-c

R = sq root 74-c

Erm, but that's not the answer?
So you know that the radius has to be <5 (same as the e.g. I gave)

And you know that r^2 = 74-c

And, I presume, you know that r^2 must be +ve
Original post by TenOfThem
So you know that the radius has to be <5 (same as the e.g. I gave)

And you know that r^2 = 74-c

And, I presume, you know that r^2 must be +ve


Yes I know that, but how is it linked to 49<c<74?

As I know r^2 must be +ve as all ^2 numbers are, but then I don't know what step to take :/
Original post by MedicalMayhem
Yes I know that, but how is it linked to 49<c<74?

As I know r^2 must be +ve as all ^2 numbers are, but then I don't know what step to take :/


The information that you have leads directly to that inequality
Original post by TenOfThem
The information that you have leads directly to that inequality


I'm a bit confused, apart from being a just a letter, what does c actually represent? (as in reference to the circle?)
nothing

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