Why the private school hate?
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Original post by mimx
No, just lucky enough to live in the catchment area. I'm not sure why you think passing entry tests is down to luck though.
As in, some people are cleverer than others, and so will pass the tests. Effectively meaning, at the age of 11, you're being put into a worse school, because of your intelligence at that age. Some people develop later etc. but their potential in life will be reduced, partly due to one test they took at 11/12.
I know practically there isn't much that can be done at the moment, but in an ideal world everyone should have access to the same quality education.
Jealousy? Bitterness. Champagne socialists. There's three obvious reasons.
Original post by Baller
Someone that pays for academic enhancement is basically investing in their academic success. As long as they stay within the rules then is isn't unfair.
My parents told me that one of the reasons they sent me to a private school is for the better upbringing, and not just the academics. Do you know how many people smoked, were on drugs, were/got pregnant or got beat up when I went to school? NONE, and I know that isn't quite the case in state schools. As you said, those that have a better upbringing will also not be hindered by problems of the poor.
How is giving free places at the expense of others considered fair? The difference between a private school and a state-school is that private schools don't have people from poor backgrounds. Having a 20% quota just means that private schools are going to be more like state-schools. It's closing the gap by worsening the better, a horrible idea.
My parents told me that one of the reasons they sent me to a private school is for the better upbringing, and not just the academics. Do you know how many people smoked, were on drugs, were/got pregnant or got beat up when I went to school? NONE, and I know that isn't quite the case in state schools. As you said, those that have a better upbringing will also not be hindered by problems of the poor.
How is giving free places at the expense of others considered fair? The difference between a private school and a state-school is that private schools don't have people from poor backgrounds. Having a 20% quota just means that private schools are going to be more like state-schools. It's closing the gap by worsening the better, a horrible idea.
I'm not disagreeing that it is outside the rules, and yes, it is an investment in their future, but it is unfair because not everyone has the resources to invest in their future. Just because it's unfair, it doesn't mean it's outside the rules. There are a lot of people who would love to pay for tutors and private education, but can't.
Giving free places at the expense of others is fair on those who don't have the opportunity to go to those places in the first place, through no fault of their own. Of course having a quota doesn't mean that private school's will become like state schools - especially if they fill the quota early on, e.g from year 7, then kids from poorer backgrounds having their entire secondary education at a private school rather than their local state school will be more like the private school kids, because they have had the same access to the same academics and better upbringing that you speak of. I believe that such a system is based on the one operated by Harvard and some other US private universities - as put by a Harvard economist:
Thus, at a minimum, public college and universities should set much higher maximum tuition rates but then offer discounts on a means-tested basis.
Of course, if rich parents who pay upwards of £10k per annum to send their children to private school feel hard done by such a system, they can always send their kids to the local comprehensive - no one is making them send their kids to private school.
Original post by Azarimanka
Jealousy? Bitterness. Champagne socialists. There's three obvious reasons.
Standard part of right-wing propaganda - the only socialists ever mentioned are "champagne socialists".
Original post by Torrresss
Again, is it right, because someone has more money than the person next to them, they can skip the waiting list and receive treatment months earlier?
No it's not, however this is an even more difficult problem to solve.
No it's not, however this is an even more difficult problem to solve.
Money is there to be spent, if you want a higher standard of something, then you can buy it with your hard earned money. Applies to everything from education & healthcare to cars & houses.
No point in hating private education or healthcare, it's always existed and will be here forever. If you don't like that many people "miss out" on private education, then make sure you can get it for your own children!
Original post by zara55
Standard part of right-wing propaganda - the only socialists ever mentioned are "champagne socialists".
Pretty much. Proper socialists are either champagne idealists living in a theoretical world, or poor and see benefits for themselves.
Tbh, I think it's unfair that people judge on the basis of the type of school someone goes to. Some of the most stuck up, 'rah' girls I have met went to the local grammar or catholic state school, whereas some of my privately educated cousins are the most down to earth people I know. What you get out of education depends on the effort you put in, regardless of where you go as I've experienced in my state school as at least 90% of my year have gained places in RG universities.
I don't think it's necessarily jealousy that the state educated feel towards the privately educated, but more of a frustration. It's frustrating to know that to get into a good university I will have to try doubly as hard as someone with a more privileged education, just because I go to a below average comprehensive. I know a lot of people that have had a build up of resentment because they see people working less hard and getting further, purely because their parents could afford a private education.
I would say that personally I disagree with the concept of private education, I don't think it's fair that some people have an easier ride than others because their parents are wealthier but I would never hold it personally against someone. I don't think anyone should ever have to apologise for their upbringing, you don't choose it.
I would say that personally I disagree with the concept of private education, I don't think it's fair that some people have an easier ride than others because their parents are wealthier but I would never hold it personally against someone. I don't think anyone should ever have to apologise for their upbringing, you don't choose it.
Original post by Rubyy
I don't think it's necessarily jealousy that the state educated feel towards the privately educated, but more of a frustration. It's frustrating to know that to get into a good university I will have to try doubly as hard as someone with a more privileged education, just because I go to a below average comprehensive. I know a lot of people that have had a build up of resentment because they see people working less hard and getting further, purely because their parents could afford a private education.
I would say that personally I disagree with the concept of private education, I don't think it's fair that some people have an easier ride than others because their parents are wealthier but I would never hold it personally against someone. I don't think anyone should ever have to apologise for their upbringing, you don't choose it.
I would say that personally I disagree with the concept of private education, I don't think it's fair that some people have an easier ride than others because their parents are wealthier but I would never hold it personally against someone. I don't think anyone should ever have to apologise for their upbringing, you don't choose it.
I know this gets discussed over and over, but I don't think it's quite right that the bias exists because state school students have to work harder for the same results. As anyone who has been to a good private school can attest, the work at private schools can be punishingly hard.
I think the bias exists because the good private schools are really good at pushing for high standards, at pushing for hard work and at pushing people to give of their best.
Incidentally, I believe the best state schools do similar things and there is a similar bias towards those who make it into the best state schools. With these days of intense competition to get into the best universities and heavy pressure on the universities to select from state schools, I would suggest that there may even be a stronger advantage to getting into some of the best state schools.
Original post by ForKicks
Pretty much. Proper socialists are either champagne idealists living in a theoretical world, or poor and see benefits for themselves.
And the millions of working-class socialists? I assume they don't fit into your Daily Mail/Fox News reality?
Original post by uprising23
I would completetly agree...people are so judgemental, it's no wonder private school kids do not want to mix...but that's how people are.
I go to private school and I want to mix, but whenever I meet guys from state school they get on really well with me until I tell them I go to private school and they get really bitchy and judgemental. Girls seem to be a lot less caring.
Disclaimer. Idgaf where someone goes to school. I went to state school until my exam years.
Original post by zara55
And the millions of working-class socialists? I assume they don't fit into your Daily Mail/Fox News reality?
If they are poor then they serve to benefit from socialism. If they would lose out, they are idealists. Simple really
Original post by zara55
I know this gets discussed over and over, but I don't think it's quite right that the bias exists because state school students have to work harder for the same results. As anyone who has been to a good private school can attest, the work at private schools can be punishingly hard.
I think the bias exists because the good private schools are really good at pushing for high standards, at pushing for hard work and at pushing people to give of their best.
Incidentally, I believe the best state schools do similar things and there is a similar bias towards those who make it into the best state schools. With these days of intense competition to get into the best universities and heavy pressure on the universities to select from state schools, I would suggest that there may even be a stronger advantage to getting into some of the best state schools.
I think the bias exists because the good private schools are really good at pushing for high standards, at pushing for hard work and at pushing people to give of their best.
Incidentally, I believe the best state schools do similar things and there is a similar bias towards those who make it into the best state schools. With these days of intense competition to get into the best universities and heavy pressure on the universities to select from state schools, I would suggest that there may even be a stronger advantage to getting into some of the best state schools.
You're probably right as I've found that since my school caved to pressure an got rid of sets based on ability, there has been much less emphasis on pushing students and more emphasis on getting everyone above average and it's this rather than it being a state school that leads to students failing to reach their potential IMO as there has been a noticeable fall in the numbers achieving top grades since this change.
Original post by confused dot com
You're probably right as I've found that since my school caved to pressure an got rid of sets based on ability, there has been much less emphasis on pushing students and more emphasis on getting everyone above average and it's this rather than it being a state school that leads to students failing to reach their potential IMO as there has been a noticeable fall in the numbers achieving top grades since this change.
I think this is really tragic, whatever school you go to. I went to a normal state primary school, and I happened to be really good at a particular subject (not boasting - there were plenty of things I was rubbish at
), and I wanted to do the level 6 SATS test for it. I wasn't allowed 'in case the other children got jealous'. This is fundamentally flawed - how does it help anyone if enthusiasm isn't encouraged, and everything is focussed on making people think they don't need to work hard?I would love to see every state school become like a private school, particularly in terms of the attitudes to education amongst the students. I don't think banning or resenting private schools is the answer though.
(This isn't directly aimed at you, it's just some random points
)Original post by Octohedral
I think this is really tragic, whatever school you go to. I went to a normal state primary school, and I happened to be really good at a particular subject (not boasting - there were plenty of things I was rubbish at ), and I wanted to do the level 6 SATS test for it. I wasn't allowed 'in case the other children got jealous'. This is fundamentally flawed - how does it help anyone if enthusiasm isn't encouraged, and everything is focussed on making people think they don't need to work hard?
I would love to see every state school become like a private school, particularly in terms of the attitudes to education amongst the students. I don't think banning or resenting private schools is the answer though.
(This isn't directly aimed at you, it's just some random points)
), and I wanted to do the level 6 SATS test for it. I wasn't allowed 'in case the other children got jealous'. This is fundamentally flawed - how does it help anyone if enthusiasm isn't encouraged, and everything is focussed on making people think they don't need to work hard?I would love to see every state school become like a private school, particularly in terms of the attitudes to education amongst the students. I don't think banning or resenting private schools is the answer though.
(This isn't directly aimed at you, it's just some random points
)I completely agree! It's really sad though as when I started, my school came second only to the private school in the borough, but now it has probably slipped below a couple of the other state schools in the area. It just seems like they are fixated on getting everyone to that 5 A*-C, but if that means funnelling everyone who doesn't pick up the GCSE syllabus at lightning speed into BTEC classes instead of giving them a chance, it really isn't worth it :/
Original post by zara55
I know this gets discussed over and over, but I don't think it's quite right that the bias exists because state school students have to work harder for the same results. As anyone who has been to a good private school can attest, the work at private schools can be punishingly hard.
I think the bias exists because the good private schools are really good at pushing for high standards, at pushing for hard work and at pushing people to give of their best.
Incidentally, I believe the best state schools do similar things and there is a similar bias towards those who make it into the best state schools. With these days of intense competition to get into the best universities and heavy pressure on the universities to select from state schools, I would suggest that there may even be a stronger advantage to getting into some of the best state schools.
I think the bias exists because the good private schools are really good at pushing for high standards, at pushing for hard work and at pushing people to give of their best.
Incidentally, I believe the best state schools do similar things and there is a similar bias towards those who make it into the best state schools. With these days of intense competition to get into the best universities and heavy pressure on the universities to select from state schools, I would suggest that there may even be a stronger advantage to getting into some of the best state schools.
I think you may be right in that many people who go to less good private schools do still work very hard and attitudes are definitely different but there are very few people who have been educated privately and by the state who can really see the similarities/differences. And it's undeniable that many of the really elite private schools (think eton, harrow, rugby) have links with particular universities, making it easier for students to get in. In terms of university as well private schools are much better at the application process, they know how to write personal statements and references etc. I think whether the differences between the 2 types of education are huge or not it doesn't alter the perception that people have of them. When you look in the cabinet and see that the majority are from really elite schools it is very disheartening.
Original post by Rubyy
I think you may be right in that many people who go to less good private schools do still work very hard and attitudes are definitely different but there are very few people who have been educated privately and by the state who can really see the similarities/differences. And it's undeniable that many of the really elite private schools (think eton, harrow, rugby) have links with particular universities, making it easier for students to get in. In terms of university as well private schools are much better at the application process, they know how to write personal statements and references etc. I think whether the differences between the 2 types of education are huge or not it doesn't alter the perception that people have of them. When you look in the cabinet and see that the majority are from really elite schools it is very disheartening.
The cabinet are mostly really old guys who are 50, so they were at private school and Oxbridge when things were quite a bit different - there have been big changes in selection at the top universities since then. Oxford and Cambridge have much larger percentages of state school-educated students now than they did 30/40 years ago.
I looked into the outreach links of Cambridge, which I applied to (and failed to get into) and they seem to spend a lot of time with certain schools but they aren't the Etons and Harrows and so on as much as top grammar and "top educational" schools, eg, Manchester Grammar is where Oxford and Cambridge currently spend the most outreach.
Private schools have to exist, first reason it is beneficial for the society as a whole no matter how unfair it is. You need the best and smartest people to govern the country (i am not saying that this couldn't be a state school person), which private schools provide a lot. Secondly it attracts huge spending from the abroad students, like tution fees, accomedation, goods etc, which has quite a large impact on the economy and provides a lot of jobs. On a personal level - life is a gamble and some people are lucky to be born into high income families, there is no point moaning about the gamble you lost, moreover it depends on your parents they had to work really hard to earn your attendance in private school, if someone's parents were not bothered to work their asses off or were not good enough(every person can achieve anything if they really work for it, no matter what background or where they start) , its tough and there is no point complaining.
people who go to state schools think people who go to private schools are rich, and people who go to private schools think people who go to state schools are poor. its an age old stereotype that doesnt really work because i expect if you took the earnings of the parents who send kids to my private school and compared it to the state school thats literally next door..there would be minimal difference
some people choose a state school so they can have more money for holidays etc.. some peopel go private and have to remortgage their house.
but we do interact with the school next to us.. and in fact id go as far as saying that other than the usual rivalry between schools and a bit of joke stereotyping we all get on well.
some people choose a state school so they can have more money for holidays etc.. some peopel go private and have to remortgage their house.
but we do interact with the school next to us.. and in fact id go as far as saying that other than the usual rivalry between schools and a bit of joke stereotyping we all get on well.
Original post by littlemissmidget123
people who go to state schools think people who go to private schools are rich, and people who go to private schools think people who go to state schools are poor. its an age old stereotype that doesnt really work because i expect if you took the earnings of the parents who send kids to my private school and compared it to the state school thats literally next door..there would be minimal difference
some people choose a state school so they can have more money for holidays etc.. some peopel go private and have to remortgage their house.
but we do interact with the school next to us.. and in fact id go as far as saying that other than the usual rivalry between schools and a bit of joke stereotyping we all get on well.
some people choose a state school so they can have more money for holidays etc.. some peopel go private and have to remortgage their house.
but we do interact with the school next to us.. and in fact id go as far as saying that other than the usual rivalry between schools and a bit of joke stereotyping we all get on well.
Yes and the stereotypes are based on extremes - the most elite private schools are very expensive and their students are typically more wealthy (I know from personal experience
) and the poorest state schools are presumably very poor. When people casually think of private school, they think of Eton toffs, not ordinary workaday private schools with moderate fees that many more people could afford if they did not prioritise new cars, bigger houses, foreign holidays, etc.Quick Reply
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