[Gallium]

(Original post by NocturnalInsomniac)
was that addressed to me or him? I'll be the first to admit my diet needed a major overhaul lol

to him, you no way in hell need 2g of protein per lb, 1lb per pound is mroe then enough, Ignore the GI index....just focus on hitting your macronutrient goals and make sure to eat enough fruit and veg.

[Antiaris]

Actually one point I made a mistake on. D:

Jesus, posted way the wrong protein. 1g to 1.2g per lbs body weight. (Up to 200g). The human liver can only metabolise up to 200g to 300g!

I don't quite understand where I went wrong with the rest of it.

Amino acid combining is a classic protein gaining stand. :/ The sources don't need to be all at the same time, but it's easier than trying to figure out an entire day.

Some saturated fat is needed for testosterone synthesis so in a vegetarian diet cheese is one of the few options. Palmitic acid has been found to be bad, stearic acid is good, linoleic acid is good and bad, not all saturated fats are equal, etc. Porridge is a healthy choice as it is one of the few Vitamin B sources apart from meat. Talking about the stuff prepackaged or???

Insulin spike and protein after exercise to stop muscle wasteage (One little extra tidbit here, Yogurt. Yogurt has one of the highest insulin scores, conversely with a medium GI, good protein with Greek).

Portobello mushrooms are one of the highest vegetable (Fungi technically) sources of protein.

:/



Back to Monsieur le NocturnalInsomniac.

Curious, what was wrong with the carbonara? I thought egg was vegetarian...

Oh, and on the low carb days try going for things like good Veggie Omeletts, Greek Yogurt, Salad, Boiled egg, Walnuts (One of the few veggie sources of Omega-3), Quark on crackers.

Main meals could be Feta salad, Quorn burgers, Roast butternut squash and walnut salad, Greek Yogurt with a chilli and lime sauce and side of (you guessed it) veg, Paneer curry on bed of lentils, etc. Not to sound bad but you've probably been vegetarian for longer than I have, I'm just a foodie.

One thing I personally love, not on the protein front but on the veg front, is chopping butternut squash, red onion, red pepper, cauliflower into 2cm cubes, with a little olive oil and garlic and roasting for 45 min (turning once) at gas mark 6. Gorgeous.

[Antiaris]

(Original post by Gallium)
to him, you no way in hell need 2g of protein per lb, 1lb per pound is mroe then enough, Ignore the GI index....just focus on hitting your macronutrient goals and make sure to eat enough fruit and veg.

Ach you got there a second before!

The GI thing I would argue though, it tends to be important for general health and is believed to be an active influence on diabetes.

[Gallium]

(Original post by Antiaris)
Ach you got there a second before!

The GI thing I would argue though, it tends to be important for general health and is believed to be an active influence on diabetes.

the gi index should only be followed if you are diabetic.

think about it you do not consume carbs in isolation/ a fasted state.

soon as you had protein/fats to a meal gi is greatly reduced.

[NocturnalInsomniac]

(Original post by Antiaris)

Back to Monsieur le NocturnalInsomniac.

Curious, what was wrong with the carbonara? I thought egg was vegetarian...

Oh, and on the low carb days try going for things like good Veggie Omeletts, Greek Yogurt, Salad, Boiled egg, Walnuts (One of the few veggie sources of Omega-3), Quark on crackers.

Main meals could be Feta salad, Quorn burgers, Roast butternut squash and walnut salad, Greek Yogurt with a chilli and lime sauce and side of (you guessed it) veg, Paneer curry on bed of lentils, etc. Not to sound bad but you've probably been vegetarian for longer than I have, I'm just a foodie.

One thing I personally love, not on the protein front but on the veg front, is chopping butternut squash, red onion, red pepper, cauliflower into 2cm cubes, with a little olive oil and garlic and roasting for 45 min (turning once) at gas mark 6. Gorgeous.

They usually contain bacon or prosciutto, thats the problem

There's too much cheese for my liking(feta, paneer). Kinda looking for substitutes. Wondering if it would be worth seeing a sports nutritionist? hehe yup I should know better...its just that I've grown up at home on a diet that's too hard/unhealthy to replicate now that I'm on my own. That sounds good.

[NocturnalInsomniac]

Are these oats good from a high protein/low carb perspective? I've got original, apple and blueberry and golden syrup.

http://www.quaker.co.uk/products/oat-so-simple-original

[shybrowngirl]

(Original post by Powerlifter)
Diet guidelines

There are generally three diets that I get asked for on here – I am attempting to compile some information to allow you to use the basic model below and fit with foods that you like and of course fits your goals.

Broadly summed up the three diets are based around:

• Fat Loss/Weight Loss – Losing body fat and becoming ‘toned’

• Sports performance – Faster, stronger, healthier maintenance diets

• Mass gain – Bulking up, either to be more curvaceous or to become more muscular

I will cover the basic structure of the diets, key elements of planning and what sort of training it supports.
A guide at the end of the summary will include various foods that fall into the groups.

• Fat Loss/Weight Loss

Spoiler:

Show

Here the basic principle is very simple; reduce the total fuel of the body to cause it to catabolise tissue. As most guys and girls want to lose fat and not muscle we want to try to make the body catabolise adipose tissue.
It is vital to combine this diet model with regular exercise, both cardiovascular based and resistance based – this is key to helping the body use adipose tissue over muscle mass, if you think about it logically if you are using your muscles then your body knows it still needs them, as such it turns to its emergency energy stores for fuel.

Macro breakdown.

The diet should be high protein, high to moderate fats and relatively low carbohydrate.
Simply put the protein is for recovery and supporting your muscles, the fat is used for a source of energy and the carbohydrates are used to fuel good workouts.

The diet is split with calorific values of your total consumption being approximately 50% protein (4kcals per gramme), 30% fat (9kcals per gramme) and 20% carbohydrate (4kcals per gramme)

For example if you are aining to eat 1500kcals per day

Protein: 750kcals / 4 = 187.5g
Fat: 450kcals / 9 = 50g
Carbs: 300kcals / 4 = 75g

The timing of the carbohydrate intake is relatively simple. Using the example above the 75g would be broken down into three servings, the first with the morning meal, the second around an hour before a workout and the remainder in your post training meal.
If you train in the morning then keep it simple and just split the value in half and use two portions.

The other meals should only contain carbohydrate in green vegetable form, broccoli, green beans etc (not salad).

Aside this you simply break the protein and fat down into three basic meals and two snacks.

For example assuming training was in the evening

Meal 1:

Museli & Eggs

Meal 2: Snack

1/2 chicken breast and broccoli

Meal 3: Lunch

Oily fish and veg

Meal 4 (pre workout)

Two pieces of fruit and a protein shake

Meal 5 (post workout)

As per meal 4

Meal 6 Evening meal

Meat & Vegetables

· Sports performance

Spoiler:

Show

The vast majority of sports will require a large amount of energy – performance is critical to this.

You will however need to make a sensible decision here as to the energy demands of your sport.

If for example you are swimming twice a day for a total of 4-5 hours you will require massive amounts of energy compared to someone who does 1hr of squash a day.

The diet needs to be adjusted to cope with this, adequate protein for recovery but the real key here is the energy source and amount of energy you are using.

In the example above using the swimmer, the body will require a very large amount of glycogen replenishment and build up to allow for performance. This can be achieved by eating a ready source of energy in the form of carbohydrate.
Simple carbs before and immediately after training to provide immediate energy and immediate energy replacement, followed with a large influx of complex carbs to build a steady base of energy for the evening session.

The squash player however will be better served (excuse the pun) with a steady flow of carbohydrates throughout the day at a lower volume than the swimmer, followed by simple carbs pre and post game. During the daily intake using good fats as a booster for energy is closer to being optimal.

The squash players diet will look very similar to the weight loss diet above with different ratios and the inclusion of complex carbs in the main meals.

E.g

Breakfast – Muesli
Snack – Handful of nuts and a piece of fruit
Lunch – Oily Fish/Meat, vegetables and brown pasta/rice
Pre game – Protein shake and two pieces of fruit
Post game – as above
Dinner – Meat, vegetables and either root vegetables or rice/pasta

This diet will be a split of closer to 25% Protein, 45% carbs and 30% fats

Where as the swimmer will be something more like

Breakfast pre swim - Eggs, Oats with honey
Post swim – Three pieces of fruit, handful of nuts
Snack – Flapjacks and fruit
Lunch – Chicken & Pasta in sauce with cheese
Snack – As per previous snack
Pre swim – Oats with honey
Post swim – Fruit & Nuts
Dinner – Similar to lunch

This split will be closer to 10% fat, 25% protein and a massive 65% carbohydrate

You really do need to be realistic in terms of the energy expenditure you have, all kcals are not equal in terms of performance so try to make it optimal for what you do.

To maintain a healthy balanced diet while performing moderate activity you should be looking at around a 30% protein, 25% fats and 45% carbs – this of course takes into account your calorific needs on a day to day basis and is most certainly not set in stone.

· Weight gain

Spoiler:

Show

Ok, a very common one on the forum is based around skinny guys trying to add muscle to their frame. It is usually accompanied by:

“Oh my gawd I eatz so much food must have a super high metabolism”

Firstly – the above is total *******s!
Secondly – You do not eat enough – fact

No matter how much exercise you are doing something cannot be build out of nothing. There HAS to be a calorific surplus to cause overall growth.
Now don’ be fooled here with people who will give anecdotal evidence of “Well my cousins sisters brothers friend ate a calorie deficit and grw his arms 12 inches in one workout”
It is possible for the body to use bodyfat as energy in addition to the food, using this combined total to build muscle mass – did you hear that, someone admitting it is possible? But it is insanely hard for most to do this, the vast majority do not achieve this, they simply trim the fat and low and behold their muscles seem more apparent – this is not to say said muscles have actually grown.

Ok on to the diet, now this is assuming you are following a heavy compound training programme primarily with some isolation thrown in (about a 20% work rate) if that is your thing – if not, why not?

Basically on this diet you need to fuel both an effective workout and the recovery and growth of muscle mass.
This diet is essentially high protein, medium carbs and medium fats – this will contain more carbs than the cutting diet. The split will be something like 40% protein, 35% carbs, 25% fats.

Carbs will be heavy either side of a training session, but there will bean inclusion in every meal unlike the cutting diet which only has them in the first meal and workout surrounding meals.

In relation to kcal requirements you need to be realistic, with hard training you should be aiming to build approximately .5 of a kilo per week – initially you may find your strength rockets with slow bodyweight gains, however the size will catch up once you get going.

So as a basic diet guide (assuming an evening workout)

Breakfast – Eggs & Rolled oats
Mid Morning – Weight gain shake (Oats, Protein & Fats – idea later on)
Lunch – Lean Meat, Vegetables and Rice/Potatoes
Mid Afternoon – Weight gain shake
Pre workout – Fruit/Cerial and Protein shake
Post workout – As above
Evening Meal – As per lunch (aim to include oily fish at least 4 times a week)
Pre bed snack – Cottage cheese/Peanut butter on toast

A simple and very effective weight gain shake is to simply take rolled oats, protein powder & either peanut butter or olive oil – blend them up and mix with either water or milk depending on how much you require. Very cheap, very effective.

You will note there are more meals included – this is straightforward – meal size isn’t much different to the maintenance diet, there are just more of them. Using blended drinks makes it easier to consume the required kcals.

- Methods

Now depending on how you want to do it, largely depending on how you wish to be seen there are two basic categories here (obviously there is a middle ground for many)
- Clean bulk – where the diet is in calorific surplus by a small amount (such as 500kcals per day) made up of food low in saturated fat, high fibre and generally considered good for you
- Dirty bulk – where the calorific surplus is much larger and to achieve this things such as high fat fast food are used to help boost the kcals

Either method is fine:
Clean bulks tend to grow slowly – you need to constantly find the balance of what you are eating, gains are predominantly muscle and maintain a better look year round. Preferred by bodybuilders/body conscious people

Dirty bulks do make you grow fast, in strength too – however you will gain bodyfat while doing this, a preferred method for many strongmen, powerlifters, rugby props etc who’s only goal is power. Once a weight equal to the calorific maintenance is achieved the body stays the same weight then begins re-constituting the mass to muscle.

- Food types

I have mentioned different foods but just to clarify a few things

Spoiler:

Show

FATs – All the diets are talking of healthy fats, these include such things as oily fish (Mackerel, Pilchards), nuts, peanut butter & olive oil (and associated spreads).

There are countless other examples but be sure to understand I am not referring to butter, saturated fat or trans fats.

Proteins – Sources for this are very easy to identify, primary sources are animals and animal produce; Meat, eggs, cheese, milk etc natural sources include primarily beans, nuts & hummus.

Carb sources – The three varients I am primarily speaking is Low, Medium and High GI, here is a link that has a good list. Carbs should be predominantly Low to Medium GI normally and Medium to High GI around workouts (before and after).

http://www.the-gi-diet.org/lowgifoods/

Without going into the exact science of it all the body takes a meal as a complete GI load, not the individual components – for example the inclusion of fats to either protein or carbs will slow the digestion down.

While the inclusion of high Gi carbs will speed up the digestion.

This is where you need to use your common sense!!

Feel free to comment, add sections or request further information on sections and I will try to build it (and Mods if I am not here feel free to edit and add bits you find useful)

heya thanks for taking your time to write these

just got a quick question, do you know on the weight gain section; does it only apply for guys? I want to gain some weight, so can I follow that diet?

[Powerlifter]

(Original post by shybrowngirl)
heya thanks for taking your time to write these

just got a quick question, do you know on the weight gain section; does it only apply for guys? I want to gain some weight, so can I follow that diet?

No

Yes

[hypercaine.]

Hello, wondering if someone could tell me how my diets looking at the moment? Ive cut out all breads and havent eaten any in a week, also not eating any crisps or chocolate or anything like that. Throuhgout the day I usually drink water, diet coke or no added sugar squash

Breakfast:
Depends on when I wake up but usually a bowl of muesli and semi skimmed milk or ive recently bought some oat-so-simple honey and almond porridge (bit tastier and sweeter than the muesli), thoughts on the porridge? I know it will be worse than normal porridge but I dont think id be able to eat it with no golden syrup or sugar.
Apple juice or coffee with a sweetener tablet-thing (think canderel)

Lunch:
Grilled back bacon with kale or broccoli, sometimes scrambled or fried egg (use non stick spray not butter or oil), fish cake and mashed potato

Dinner:
Quorn chicken style pieces, noodles and broccoli
Quorn mince with kale, pasta and a sauce

Thats just a brief sample of my meals over the past week, breakfast probably wont change but im finding an issue with lunch especially when not having a huge amount of time and not having bread for a sandwich or anything. Admittedly today I had a pizza for dinner but its the first rubbish meal ive had all week and it is a Friday In regards to alcohol im drinking diet mixer and whiskey but I dont drink often anyway. No snacks at all really, I got hungry the other night and had a bowl of muesli but that was it, trying to fight the hunger.

Any suggestions or improvements? Ive ordered some protein powder too which im hoping will be useful a quick meal on the go or even a snack, undoubtedly when I start uni work again ill get hungrier more often then I am now.

[Powerlifter]

(Original post by hypercaine.)
Hello, wondering if someone could tell me how my diets looking at the moment? Ive cut out all breads and havent eaten any in a week, also not eating any crisps or chocolate or anything like that. Throuhgout the day I usually drink water, diet coke or no added sugar squash

Breakfast:
Depends on when I wake up but usually a bowl of muesli and semi skimmed milk or ive recently bought some oat-so-simple honey and almond porridge (bit tastier and sweeter than the muesli), thoughts on the porridge? I know it will be worse than normal porridge but I dont think id be able to eat it with no golden syrup or sugar.
Apple juice or coffee with a sweetener tablet-thing (think canderel)

Lunch:
Grilled back bacon with kale or broccoli, sometimes scrambled or fried egg (use non stick spray not butter or oil), fish cake and mashed potato

Dinner:
Quorn chicken style pieces, noodles and broccoli
Quorn mince with kale, pasta and a sauce

Thats just a brief sample of my meals over the past week, breakfast probably wont change but im finding an issue with lunch especially when not having a huge amount of time and not having bread for a sandwich or anything. Admittedly today I had a pizza for dinner but its the first rubbish meal ive had all week and it is a Friday In regards to alcohol im drinking diet mixer and whiskey but I dont drink often anyway. No snacks at all really, I got hungry the other night and had a bowl of muesli but that was it, trying to fight the hunger.

Any suggestions or improvements? Ive ordered some protein powder too which im hoping will be useful a quick meal on the go or even a snack, undoubtedly when I start uni work again ill get hungrier more often then I am now.

How it looks for what?

[spun29]

Is it really necessary to ea vegetables?? I F-ing hate it

Posted from TSR Mobile

[hypercaine.]

(Original post by Powerlifter)
How it looks for what?

For weight loss? Trying to lose weight at the minute and once the gym opens will be doing a bit of cardio hopefully. Looking at buying a cheap set of dumbells to lift in my room too.
Oh and also I calculated my BMR and am keeping a log of my calorie intake too, the calculator I used said I want to have a calorie deficit of between 500 and 750 kcal which im between pretty much everyday. Today I bought a bottle of full sugar drink and never realised how many calories they contain, if my calculations and sources are correct almost the same as 3 rashers of grilled back bacon...I know what id prefer!

[Powerlifter]

(Original post by hypercaine.)
For weight loss? Trying to lose weight at the minute and once the gym opens will be doing a bit of cardio hopefully. Looking at buying a cheap set of dumbells to lift in my room too.
Oh and also I calculated my BMR and am keeping a log of my calorie intake too, the calculator I used said I want to have a calorie deficit of between 500 and 750 kcal which im between pretty much everyday. Today I bought a bottle of full sugar drink and never realised how many calories they contain, if my calculations and sources are correct almost the same as 3 rashers of grilled back bacon...I know what id prefer!

Look at the diet guideline in the OP and structure your diet around the fat loss section as currently it is not structured in the same fashion.

[Maccees]

Does tinned fish count as "oily fish"? I don't think I can afford whole fish on a student budget

[cowsforsale]

(Original post by Maccees)
Does tinned fish count as "oily fish"? I don't think I can afford whole fish on a student budget

Yup.

Sardines and mackerel are two excellent choices.

[zero3991]

This post covers the basics, BUT in the weight loss recommendations the protein at 50% is way too high. It is well known that your body cannot efficiently use protein for energy above 35% (rabbit syndrome for an example), which should be the limit in almost everyone's diet. It is stressful for the body to deal with such a high protein intake (forgive me I can't remember the reasons exactly: kidney problems, autophagy). Humans beings will not naturally seek such a high protein intake. It is very artificial to raise protein to such a high intake, your bodies naturally tendencies will not be to eat a **** load of lean meats or white fish.

Protein at about 30% is reasonable.

Also, DO NOT BE so scared of saturated fat, it's blown up to a stupid proportion in the media and pop-nutrition articles/books etc. A moderate amount of it is great. Studies show when fat goes below 30%, testosterone (useful for a lean composition) levels go down, and within this 30% it is the level saturated fat which made the difference. There are loads of others things which I cba to go into right now, which suggests saturated fat is not the demon it is made out to be.

Just realized someone already posted this.

I don't know if you have perhaps miscalculated the macros by assuming meat, animals etc. are 100% protein, instead of a combination of fat and protein.

And maybe a little more emphasize on avoiding sugar/ high GI carbs, as carbs - insulin - fat storage. Thus perhaps limiting these types carbs will make more of a difference.

Side note, there is a lot of people saying they are eating loads of salads (echos of diet headpsace). You cannot diet to lose weight (well you can). Basically, you will look good when you are on your 'diet' but when you go back to your usual thing you will slowly revert back to your old weight. You have to find out how to eat to maintain your ideal weight, it has to be a permanent change, unless you want to do the diet cycle for the rest of your life. Thus, unless you love salads you are not going to keep that up in the long run, (some salads are awesome though). This also means finding a way to not be hungry (eating the eat foods etc.) as you cannot aim to remain always hungry as one day you will break (dramatic....).

[Old School]

(Original post by zero3991)
This post covers the basics, BUT in the weight loss recommendations the protein at 50% is way too high. It is well known that your body cannot efficiently use protein for energy above 35% (rabbit syndrome for an example), which should be the limit in almost everyone's diet. It is stressful for the body to deal with such a high protein intake (forgive me I can't remember the reasons exactly: kidney problems, autophagy). Humans beings will not naturally seek such a high protein intake. It is very artificial to raise protein to such a high intake, your bodies naturally tendencies will not be to eat a **** load of lean meats or white fish.

Protein at about 30% is reasonable.

Also, DO NOT BE so scared of saturated fat, it's blown up to a stupid proportion in the media and pop-nutrition articles/books etc. A moderate amount of it is great. Studies show when fat goes below 30%, testosterone (useful for a lean composition) levels go down, and within this 30% it is the level saturated fat which made the difference. There are loads of others things which I cba to go into right now, which suggests saturated fat is not the demon it is made out to be.

Just realized someone already posted this.

I don't know if you have perhaps miscalculated the macros by assuming meat, animals etc. are 100% protein, instead of a combination of fat and protein.

And maybe a little more emphasize on avoiding sugar/ high GI carbs, as carbs - insulin - fat storage. Thus perhaps limiting these types carbs will make more of a difference.

Side note, there is a lot of people saying they are eating loads of salads (echos of diet headpsace). You cannot diet to lose weight (well you can). Basically, you will look good when you are on your 'diet' but when you go back to your usual thing you will slowly revert back to your old weight. You have to find out how to eat to maintain your ideal weight, it has to be a permanent change, unless you want to do the diet cycle for the rest of your life. Thus, unless you love salads you are not going to keep that up in the long run, (some salads are awesome though). This also means finding a way to not be hungry (eating the eat foods etc.) as you cannot aim to remain always hungry as one day you will break (dramatic....).

No, 50% protein is fine and about right for just about anyone.

Unless you're particularly susceptible to kidney issues then high protein diets are fine.

'Rabbit syndrome' is a rareish side effect of antipsychotic drugs where your jaw twitches and stuff. It's nothing to do with diet.

Sat fat ain't bad. You're right. I can't find any studies to back up the 30% figure though. Seems like you just plucked a number out of thin air and said 'studies have shown'.

On your last paragraph: the real issue is people need to stop seeing food as a reward and thinking that 'healthy' foods are always boring and nasty. Truth is, if you eat like a grown up i.e. eat right 90% of the time, eat a lot of protein and adjust your intake based on your progress and goals you won't go far wrong.

[zero3991]

I meant rabbit starvation.

I can't remember the exact reference given, I have read a number of bloggers who made an argument to that effect.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8942407

As stated in another post you cannot metabolize over 35% protein, thus why would you eat more than that if you cannot use it for energy. Humans do not 'naturally' gravitate to should high protein intakes, probably because we cannot metabolize it above 35-40%, thus we have evolved not to seek it above that.

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/71/3/682.long

In brief, that paper suggests hunter gatherer groups do not eat above 35% protein. (good for reference, I know its not 'hard' science). Also the paper notes rabbit starvation, and the dangers of high protein intakes and notes that hunter gatherers would choose fatter animals when a large part of their diet was animals, so as not to exceed 35% protein.
(Scroll down to 'Major findings')

What would be the reasons for such high protein intake (maybe the thermionic effect of protein - misguided*, prevent muscle loss - you don't need that much, don't want to increase fat and carbs - unfounded fears)

*I often feel it is misguided because i believe low crab or keto diets are best for weight loss, with a high percentage of fat so you can get into ketosis easier.

[Appeal to reason]

I see you recommend muesli for breakfast, I was wondering how people eat it - with milk, water or natural yoghurt? (For fat loss atm, then when I'm ready, for a "clean" bulk)
I imagine most people eat muesli with nuts in it - is it still as good a breakfast if I were to eat nut-free muesli? What could I use as a substitute for the nuts?