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The Holocaust Wasn't Just About Jews

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    (Original post by Kiss)
    Yeah, I only found that out on my own as well. Even in highschool, they only said 'and other ethnic groups who differed from the Aryan Race' - that's not a great help. I've wondered, were any blacks murdered in the holocaust? Because it's something I've thought about a lot but I could never really picture blacks being in Europe at that time.
    Well, there is a book about this topic(contemporary (eye)witness reports): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destined_to_Witness

    As there weren't many black people in Germany, there were kind of "to exotic" to be persecuted in the same manner, as e.g. Jews, Roma, Sinti, Homosexuals (mainly gay people), Communists, ...
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    (Original post by Blackburn_Allen)
    Just a little curve ball out here: I have read on several places that it is a possibility Hitler didn't know everything about the Holocaust. It is blatant he knew of the camps but didn't know of the true horror held within them. Does anyone here support this point?
    Yeah, it was only Himmler, but not our beloved Führer. He would never do things like that. (It is more a Nazi/old point of view.)

    ==> To sum it up: No support on this point.
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    (Original post by Lewis :D)
    Hmm, I'm not sure. I read somewhere that Hitler saw Muslims as allies and not as enemies too (not 100% sure about that though!), you seem quite educated on the subject. What did Hitler say about Muslims?
    1. Blacks and Muslims aren't the same.
    2. In general the simple fact being Muslim didn't matter and they were allies. Again there is the same point: Muslims weren't "really known" in Germany as group.
    3. You could be of e.g. half-turkish decent and in the HJ, no problem.
    4. In general Nazis didn't like religion (there were just to much Christians to do something against, but this is another topic) and Jews were seen as a stand-alone people with no possibilty to convert.
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    (Original post by Kibalchich)
    First they came for the communists,
    and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

    Then they came for the trade unionists,
    and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

    Then they came for the Jews,
    and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.

    Then they came for me
    and there was no one left to speak out for me.


    I think "general society and international community" know. It's just you.
    I love this, it's poignant.
    One of my favourite quotes.
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    (Original post by lulubel)
    yes, this is true roughly 13 million people died in nazi concentration camps so thats 7 million non jews.

    the reason why rabbis want people to forget non jewish victims is because zionists use the holocaust for political leverage.

    i was alerted to this when i watched the documentary on channel 4 called: defamation. it was directed by an israeli jew and won a lot of awards. it documented how zionist jewish organisations use the holocaust for their own political purposes.

    very sad. i even remember a scene when the head of the ADL met with the ukrainian president and said that they must not call the 7 million ukrainians who were victims of genoicide a holocaust. i mean, who do these people think they are?
    Oh piss off will you?

    Jews want people to forget about the other holocaust victims so they can play the guilt trip card?

    Is that why at every single synagogue in the world they pay remembrance to all the holocaust victims?

    You're basing the acts of a couple of organisations on your judgement of rabbis in general with the statement:

    "the reason why rabbis want people to forget non jewish victims is because zionists use the holocaust for political leverage."

    How dare you? That's a slanderous attack on rabbis everywhere with a hideous anti-semitic undertone and you should be ashamed at your ignorance.
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    (Original post by daphodil)
    I was just trying to suggest a reason why Jews are focused on in the education system. I do agree with you that all the other groups/minorities should be remembered equally. I personally studied History at A Level and so did learn about the other groups, but I also understand that at GCSE level, it's difficult for children to get their heads around the extent of the Holocaust, particularly as many of them may be Jewish themselves so obviously it's tricky to divulge too much too soon.

    And then in later life, most are educated solely by Holocaust film (if at all) which essentially features the Jewish plight alone as I guess it's viewed as more of a tradegy presumably because of the scale. Sad really.
    And just to think. All you had to do the whole time was read any book on the holocaust.
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    Most of the victims of persecution in the Holocaust were Jewish; it thus makes sense that the majority of focus is around them. At school we were informed of the gypsies, homosexuals, trade unionists, jehovah's witnesses etc that also suffered. I agree in principle with your statement that all should be remembered but often on the internet that all too easily becomes a beating stick for others who have far nastier ulterior motives
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    (Original post by KimKallstrom)
    Oh piss off will you?

    Jews want people to forget about the other holocaust victims so they can play the guilt trip card?

    Is that why at every single synagogue in the world they pay remembrance to all the holocaust victims?

    You're basing the acts of a couple of organisations on your judgement of rabbis in general with the statement:

    "the reason why rabbis want people to forget non jewish victims is because zionists use the holocaust for political leverage."

    How dare you? That's a slanderous attack on rabbis everywhere with a hideous anti-semitic undertone and you should be ashamed at your ignorance.
    Can you really say you've been to every single synagogue in the world?
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    (Original post by KimKallstrom)
    Oh piss off will you?

    Jews want people to forget about the other holocaust victims so they can play the guilt trip card?

    Is that why at every single synagogue in the world they pay remembrance to all the holocaust victims?

    You're basing the acts of a couple of organisations on your judgement of rabbis in general with the statement:

    "the reason why rabbis want people to forget non jewish victims is because zionists use the holocaust for political leverage."

    How dare you? That's a slanderous attack on rabbis everywhere with a hideous anti-semitic undertone and you should be ashamed at your ignorance.


    get off of your high horse and retract that absurd charge of antisemitism.

    withdraw!
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    (Original post by Kiss)
    I've wondered for a while why the general society and international community (excluding holocaust denialists) agree that the Holocaust only affected Jews. I think the obvious answer is, of course, that the Jews were the main root enemy for Hitler's regime, and anyone who's read Mein Kamf will know he had a great distrust and hatred for Jews after the German economy being crippled by bankers following WW1, a lot of whom were Jewish.

    Anyway, I thought it's a little disrespectful for everyone to forget about the other groups who weren't fit for the Aryan regime. I remember reading in an article somewhere (I can't find it sadly) that a group of Rabis petitioned for the removal of an LGBT and Russian memorial to those who died in the holocaust.

    People tend to forget that that Hitler also viewed the Slavs as subhuman, to the extent that there is an estimated 1.5 million died. On top of that there is the estimations of the Russian Soviet POWs which exceed 4 million (including civilians and military personel), the 1-2 million Polish and the half a million gypsies, and an extra 200,000 - 750,000 compiled of other groups including the disabled and mentally handicapped, homosexuals, Catholic Priests and other prisoners who opposed the Nazi regime.

    I'm not trying to refute that roughly 6 million Jews died in the Holocaust, or attempt to compare one set of ethnic casualty with another - because it's not fair and any death is still a tradgedy. But I think it's important to remember those lost who weren't just Jewish - the Holocaust, whilst predominatly focused upon Jews, is not a soley a Jewish Tradgedy.

    Sources:

    http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition...out-jews-1.743

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/1481...eath-toll.html

    http://www.whale.to/b/holocaust_death_stats.html
    Yeah people tend to over look the other groups that were also targeted. However when I went to the holocaust exhibit at the imperial museum in London they did include a section on other groups targeted.
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    (Original post by Nathanielle)
    1. Blacks and Muslims aren't the same.
    2. In general the simple fact being Muslim didn't matter and they were allies. Again there is the same point: Muslims weren't "really known" in Germany as group.
    3. You could be of e.g. half-turkish decent and in the HJ, no problem.
    4. In general Nazis didn't like religion (there were just to much Christians to do something against, but this is another topic) and Jews were seen as a stand-alone people with no possibilty to convert.
    Ahh okay, thanks.

    (Original post by Aeschylus)
    Most of the victims of persecution in the Holocaust were Jewish; it thus makes sense that the majority of focus is around them. At school we were informed of the gypsies, homosexuals, trade unionists, jehovah's witnesses etc that also suffered. I agree in principle with your statement that all should be remembered but often on the internet that all too easily becomes a beating stick for others who have far nastier ulterior motives
    Yeah it's usually more later on though that you find out that it wasn't just Jews. I had to find out for myself though when I was interested in looking into WW2 and Nazism.
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    The Jews are the most well known holocaust victims but it's incorrect to say "society has agreed that they were the only victims".
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    There were around 11 million victims of the Holocaust, with 6 million of those being Jews. Therefore, the majority of people murdered were, in fact, Jewish. Obviously, every single person who died in the Holocaust should be measured equally but I just wanted to point some things out. The Jews, Sinti and Roma were treated as subhuman by the Nazis due to Nazi racialist theories (they were viewed as a harmful race). This meant there was a marked difference between these victims and others such as Homosexuals or Disabled people - they were killed for what the Nazis deemed 'pragmatic reasons'.
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    (Original post by Dom418)
    There were around 11 million victims of the Holocaust, with 6 million of those being Jews. Therefore, the majority of people murdered were, in fact, Jewish. Obviously, every single person who died in the Holocaust should be measured equally but I just wanted to point some things out. The Jews, Sinti and Roma were treated as subhuman by the Nazis due to Nazi racialist theories (they were viewed as a harmful race). This meant there was a marked difference between these victims and others such as Homosexuals or Disabled people - they were killed for what the Nazis deemed 'pragmatic reasons'.
    Being killed for pragmatic reasons? That doesn't change much for them considering the killing.
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    People also forget that ot wasn't just hitler that hated jews

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