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NATO Supply Not Suspended, Stopped Permanently

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Reply 40
Original post by Rgman27
I think it was conquered by Alexander the Great.


my apologies but once/twice....
even still consistly holding off much more advanced civilisations
Original post by DdotT
Afganistan hasn't been conquered once in history (even after many attempts by many nations) due to it being so mountainous.
And Muslims who hate the west tend to be radical, facist Muslims who despise democracy.


Except for Alexander the Great. The Greek Bactrian Kingdom existed long after his death and the collapse of the Macedonian Empire.

That's a big factor as to why so many Afghans have green and blue eyes compared to other peoples in the region.
Original post by Aj12
Anyway if this is how Pakistan feels then the US should pull all money and aid out of Pakistan. Shortly followed by a quick withdrawal from Afghanistan.


Nice I hope they do that, then atleast then when I go pakistan I can be safe in the market etc with my family and have no fear of them dieing from suicide bombs and bs. This was never pakistans, americas stupid war in which they have no chance of winning.
Reply 43
Original post by Aphotic Cosmos
Except for Alexander the Great. The Greek Bactrian Kingdom existed long after his death and the collapse of the Macedonian Empire.

That's a big factor as to why so many Afghans have green and blue eyes compared to other peoples in the region.


Yes sorry, suprisingly i never knew this.
However, i stated that in response to someone who stated how the west can't defeat some 'cavemen'. My point still stands.
Reply 44
Original post by Aj12
I support it but I don' t think we can achieve anything there,


Because "we" are unable to or because it's not something that NATO is serious about?

Original post by Aj12
God only knows what will Pakistan will do though, once America has gone they are likely going ot have a civil war next door and it will o doubt continue to spill into their country


I imagine it would be pretty easy and quick for the Afghan Taliban to take back the country. The Hashish army certainly isn't going to stop them.

Original post by CyclopsRock
Maybe if Pakistan got its own damn house in order, NATO wouldn't be flying missions, doing their interior policing for them.

I don't know about the specifics of this attack


Here is a report of what happened, according to the DGMO.
(edited 12 years ago)
Reply 45
Original post by B-Man.
That's fair, but it was Mohmand Agency that was attacked. An area that Pakistan's Security forces cleared of militants back in September. There is also no evidence that there were militants in that area and The Pakistan Army maintains an 8,200 man presence in Mohmand Agency following military operations to clear the region of militants.


Thanks for the information, it's interesting to see. I'm not sure if I'm willing to unquestionally accept claims that theres no militiants in the area. It's something to claim to the media that an area is 90% clear and quite another for the area to be clear of terrorists. But your information does certainally paint the events in a grey colour.

Original post by B-Man.
Who are you referring to here?


Pakistan's unofficial army are the terrorists it is in league with and directs.


Original post by B-Man.
Wait, what? Are you saying that those soldiers where fighting alongside the Taliban when US aircrafts attacked?


Not fighting alongside, I would be shocked if the Pakistanis were to do that. But directing and providing intel does seem to be the modus operandi of that state. Is it too hard to believe that they would invite terrorists to use their outpost flags as shelter from NATO? Or that the captain was in league with terrorists?

I don't trust Pakistan further than I could throw it. It is entirely possible that NATO were carrying out an operation against an innocent base for reasons of their own. It is also very possible that the outposts somehow had links with militants. I guess it is best to say that we cannot tell either way on the events of the night but we can only analyse the outcome. If we look at the outcome we see a major failure of statecraft.

In any other country, losing 27 soldiers like this would force a rethink on a policy like supporting terrorists (this wouldn't of happened if NATO did not have to operate near/in Pakistan). However Pakistanis seem to be prepared to pay an extremely heavy price to continue with its policies. I don't understand why Pakistani's don't get more angry at their government and demand it to play straight. Pakistan isn't a great power and it cannot escalate conflicts with NATO like it can with India. What on earth is it doing?

Delusion over the power of the Pakistani military seems to be part of the problem.

'The 2009 U.S. military budget accounts for approximately 40% of global arms spending and is over six times larger than the military budget of China (compared at the nominal US dollar / Renminbi rate, not the PPP rate). The United States and its close allies are responsible for two-thirds to three-quarters of the world's military spending'

Inzaman and similar people need to reflect on what that means for Pakistan in Afghanistan.
(edited 12 years ago)
Reply 46
Original post by RyanT
Not fighting alongside, I would be shocked if the Pakistanis were to do that. But directing and providing intel does seem to be the modus operandi of that state. Is it too hard to believe that they would invite terrorists to use their outpost flags as shelter from NATO? Or that the captain was in league with terrorists?


Yes, actually, that would be insanely stupid. Not to mention that the Pak army, in clearing Mohmand Agency of militants, has killed an abundance of militants in those operations. Here is just one of those operations in which 40 militants were killed by Mohmand's Pakistani security forces. There is no way that they trust each other enough for that.

Original post by RyanT
I don't trust Pakistan further than I could throw it. It is entirely possible that NATO were carrying out an operation against an innocent base for reasons of their own. It is also very possible that the outposts somehow had links with militants. I guess it is best to say that we cannot tell either way on the events of the night but we can only analyse the outcome.


The only I thing I feel sure about is that this was an intentional attack on Pakistani troops and that is a scary scenario.

Original post by RyanT
'The 2009 U.S. military budget accounts for approximately 40% of global arms spending and is over six times larger than the military budget of China (compared at the nominal US dollar / Renminbi rate, not the PPP rate). The United States and its close allies are responsible for two-thirds to three-quarters of the world's military spending'

Inzaman and similar people need to reflect on what that means for Pakistan in Afghanistan.


Inzamam understands that Pakistan would be defeated in a war with the US. He just recognises, and rightly so, that such a war would be devastating to the US, both in terms of casualties and economically. In his words it would be "10x Vietnam."
(edited 12 years ago)
Original post by Aphotic Cosmos
Except for Alexander the Great. The Greek Bactrian Kingdom existed long after his death and the collapse of the Macedonian Empire.

That's a big factor as to why so many Afghans have green and blue eyes compared to other peoples in the region.


Afgans are a mongrel mix of south-east asians/iranians/central europeans and mongols (since the invasion by the khans following generations of Gengis Khan, who were war-mad themselves)
What resulted is a fanatical bunch that love fighting and living in caves in mountains. A very hard foe to defeat completly but USA was bnever trying to defeat Afgans, they went to remove the Taleban and kill bin laden.
Original post by B-Man.




Inzamam understands that Pakistan would be defeated in a war with the US. He just recognises, and rightly so, that such a war would be devastating to the US, both in terms of casualties and economically. In his words it would be "10x Vietnam."



Probably rubbish. There is no comparison with the Vietnamese who were an intelligent, resourceful and determined people who received help from korean, chinese and russian agencies. Pakistan have never won a war in 3 attempts in their short life, including the largest troop surrender in post WWII conflict in 1971.
Thats the difference with the vietnamese ( and probably the afgans ) in that they would never surrender.
Reply 49
Original post by B-Man.
Because "we" are unable to or because it's not something that NATO is serious about?



I imagine it would be pretty easy and quick for the Afghan Taliban to take back the country. The Hashish army certainly isn't going to stop them.


Mhh I think NATO is able to, but to do so would lead to huge collateral.

What about the Pakistan Taliban? They aren't just going to disappear.
Reply 50
Original post by B-Man.
In addition, Pakistan is to boycott a global conference on Afghanistan in Bon, amid mass protests of Pakistanis demanding that US-Pakistani ties be cut. Also Russia and China have said that violation of Pakistan's sovereignty and territorial integrity was unacceptable.

Thoughts? Is the breakdown of ties between the two nations good?, bad? What would a permanent halt to 50% of NATO's supplies mean for their operations in Afghanistan?


America needs to stop playing policemen. Hopefully the Pakistan Govt. will take them down a few notches. Obama is very arrogant and shows no remorse over trampling on the interests of other nations.
Reply 51
Original post by Aj12
What about the Pakistan Taliban? They aren't just going to disappear.


The Pakistani Taliban grew out of, primarily, anger directed towards collateral damage that resulted from drone attacks, US missile strikes and Pakistan's own forces conducting incursions into the tribal areas to drive out militants. Once the war is over, none of these grievances exist - they have no purpose as an organisation. They are pretty much left without a manifesto.
Reply 52
Original post by B-Man.
The Pakistani Taliban grew out of, primarily, anger directed towards collateral damage that resulted from drone attacks, US missile strikes and Pakistan's own forces conducting incursions into the tribal areas to drive out militants. Once the war is over, none of these grievances exist - they have no purpose as an organisation. They are pretty much left without a manifesto.


I don't think its going to be as simple as America leaves, Afghanistan slides into another dictatorship run by the Taliban and Pakistan is peaceful again with a sphere of influence in the country. I don't think we can really predict what will happen but I doubt all the violence is just going to fade away
Reply 53
Original post by B-Man.
The Pakistani Taliban grew out of, primarily, anger directed towards collateral damage that resulted from drone attacks, US missile strikes and Pakistan's own forces conducting incursions into the tribal areas to drive out militants. Once the war is over, none of these grievances exist - they have no purpose as an organisation. They are pretty much left without a manifesto.


I don't think so. The drone attacks only started being used extensively since 2008 and the Pakistani Taliban had started to form before that.

Also, I doubt they will do nothing whilst there is an apostate Pakistani and Indian State next door after the war with the US is over.

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