[xxbradkennedyxx]

Of course when rooney is at his very best he isnt that far from the likes of Iniesta, ronaldo etc but its the very fact that he has no consistancy throughout a season which makes him nowhere near their level. Its all good saying that when hes on form hes the best in england, but what relevence does that actually have? espescially for a team at the top, where their objective is to not drop points, consistancy is key, one bad game, never mind 7 or 8 in a row, can massively affect the teams results.

[TRS-T]

(Original post by elijahbrooke)
I think English players are the most overrated players in the world. Why? Firstly, prices.

Andy Carroll (who always been useless, but credit Newcastle, they somehow got £35M)or Sergio Aguero (£39M), Villa (£35ish). Who would you rather have in your team?

Lescott (£23M) or Vermaelen (£10M) and Mertesaker (£8-10M)? How is Gary Cahill worth £17M with one year left on contract?? How is Gareth Barry playing for England, and how is Downing worth £20M when he's done sweet FA during his career? Milner (27M) or Van der Vaart (8M)? Even David Bentley (credit to spurs, they do piss away money sometimes) at £20M.

Also, a lack of world class players. People say Rooney is, please, DPMO. What has Rooney actually done when compared to a Messi, or a Ronaldo? During the Champions League Final buildup last year, the papers were rating Messi as 10, while Rooney (who hadn't scored for about a year or summat) was a 9. As good as Xavi. Are you high? At the moment, there are NO world class English players. None. Messi and Ronaldo, Xavi and Iniesta change games consistently. Does Rooney? Fair enough, he's good. But definitely not world class. Not even the best English player atm (that's Parker).

Then we come onto the England team. The most overrated national side in the world. What other "big nation" would play Barry? Downing? Milner? Walcott? Lennon? Average players. No other forwards to support Rooney, (Zamora? Is stuff that bad?) But we were begging Manuel Almunia to play in goal?? Greece have won more trophies than England in the last 40 years. And in major competitons, massive hype, like at the World Cup,how Capello's the best England manager ever, then they go out, and he's suddenly useless. Now, somehow pundits are saying that foreign players are ruining the game, but why waste 50M on 2 average English players when you could rebuild a team with that? When you're seeing players like Hernandez and Andre Santos, the West Brom Nigerian guy, internationals, coming in for less than 10M, how much would they be worth if they were English? Just think. Who was the last England international who moved to any club for less than 10M? Who was the last big English player to move abroad? Beckham and Owen. European clubs now know that English players are overpaid, overpriced and overrated.

So that's my rant. Do you agree?

Stop hating on England.

Nobody says we have better players than Spain.

End of the day though, we have better players than most of countries.

[elijahbrooke]

(Original post by TRS-T)
Stop hating on England.

Nobody says we have better players than Spain.

End of the day though, we have better players than most of countries.

I never said they had better players than Spain. But the players you do have are massively overrated.

[Dutchman81]

(Original post by elijahbrooke)
But he's never consistently on form! How can he be world class if he never proves it? One overhead kick after a year of poor form and suddenly he's world class again? Crouch has scored overhead kicks and important goals, does that make him world class? It's like when the original Ronaldo and Ronaldinho went rubbish towards the end of his career and me still going "he's still world-class". No, he WAS world-class. I can't think of a single time in Rooney's career when he's consistently done the business for at least two seasons. Henry in his prime, 25 goals a season guaranteed. And for about 5 years on the bounce as well. World class. Messi and Ronaldo, scored around 200 goals between them in the last two years or some ridiculous number like that. Rooney? I dunno, around 25? I'm not denying he has the potential to be world class, but he's got to start proving it soon. Saying a player is world class when he's done nothing consistently to prove it is just stupid. Very good? I can't deny that. World class? No. Potential to be world class? Possibly.

Also, this thread was supposed to be about ENGLISH players being overrated, not just Rooney. And I stand by my original statement.

So now its the amount of goals score which measures an individual's greatness?
Come on!!!

So to be world class you have to be Messi or C.Ronaldo?
I promise you there are not many deep lying Strikers better Europe or the World than Rooney.

Don't get me wrong, there ARE English players playing for the national team that shouldn't or are classed as great or world class when clearly they are not.

Can I just add I dislike Man U with a passion.

[elijahbrooke]

(Original post by Dutchman81)
So now its the amount of goals score which measures an individual's greatness?
Come on!!!

So to be world class you have to be Messi or C.Ronaldo?
I promise you there are not many deep lying Strikers better Europe or the World than Rooney.

They aren't. But there are many more strikers that play more consistently well than him. I'm not denying he could be world class. I'm not. But he doesn't play consistently enough, and I doubt you could disagree with that.

And to be honest, Messi or C.Ronaldo are the only two players I can think of the top of my head that play well consistently.

[Dutchman81]

(Original post by elijahbrooke)
They aren't. But there are many more strikers that play more consistently well than him. I'm not denying he could be world class. I'm not. But he doesn't play consistently enough, and I doubt you could disagree with that.

And to be honest, Messi or C.Ronaldo are the only two players I can think of the top of my head that play well consistently.

Messi and C.Ronaldo are a rare breed. If they continue in this manner they will without doubt be all time greats. Plus some decent performances for their respective national teams. For me thats whats lacking.

Its not fare to compare him to those two.

[elijahbrooke]

(Original post by Dutchman81)
Messi and C.Ronaldo are a rare breed. If they continue in this manner they will without doubt be all time greats. Plus some decent performances for their respective national teams. For me thats whats lacking.

Its not fare to compare him to those two.

Then what players atm do you think are world class?

[Beckford MMCMXCIX]

If a world class player is someone who is one of the best 2 or 3 players in his position in the world then Rooney is not world class. He is incredibly talented, but that doesnt make him world class. Matt Le Tissier was ridiculously talented, did silly things with a football, but he wasn't a world class football player. Yes Rooney has scored two or three special goasl, but some average players have scored a couple of wonder goals too.

Messi/Ronaldo both go without saying. Aguero, Suarez and RVP I think are as good as Rooney in the PL, RVP arguably better, then you have David Villa, Ibrahimovic in Europe. On his day Drogba is as good as anyone, although im not going to name him amongst these players as he hasn't pefrormed properly for a couple of years.


With regard to English world class players (best 2 or 3in their position), I think Ashley Cole has been the player with the most claim to having acheived that for the longest time. Ferdiand, Gerrard and Lampard were consistently up there in there positionsp up until around 2008/09 when Barca raised the bar. Beckham was brillaint for a few years too. Im not saying these players are better footballers than Rooney per se, just that in their positons they were some of the best in the world.

With future England players, i think maybe Joe Hart, Phil Jones and maybe Wilshere could become WC. The poor thing for Wilshere is the amount of quality barca keep churning out e.g. Thiago Alcantara, for him to ever be one of the best midfielders in the world will be a huge ask.

[TM94]

Good prospects coming through to be fair...

Walker, Wilshere, Smalling, Jones, Gibbs, Sturridge, Welbeck, McEachran, Barkley, Sammy Ameobi etc.

[little_wizard123]

Wow, you found some English players that aren't as good as foreign players but cost more. Congratulations. I could do the opposite. Mertesacker is hardly a good example either Each team needs a certain number of English players, plus clubs like having English players, so their prices will always be inflated.

I don't think England are overrated anyway. We always go on about how crap they are. We're ranked 5th in the world based on statistics, yet hardly any of our fans think we deserve to be in the top 10. Hardly overrated, is it?

You haven't really said why we're overrated. You've just decided we are, based on a few of your own opinions. I think the reason that some people expect us to win tournaments etc. is because of the quality of our league. Many people expect England to replicate our league's success in Europe. The problem is that unlike in Germany or Spain for example, the league and youth system isn't designed to help us. We also have no English players (who are likely to start for us) playing abroad, and experiencing different leagues. All English players play in our league, yet we have a very high percentage of foreign players. This says that our youth systems aren't good enough. I think English players used to be overrated, but they're not anymore.

[elijahbrooke]

(Original post by little_wizard123)
Wow, you found some English players that aren't as good as foreign players but cost more. Congratulations. I could do the opposite.

Go on then. And by the way, Mertesaker's won about 70 caps....

[Stopmessing]

emile heskey £3.5m vs christiano ronaldo £80m

pretty obvious who you would pick eh?

'Nough said

[TRS-T]

(Original post by elijahbrooke)
I never said they had better players than Spain. But the players you do have are massively overrated.

Not really.

The way everyone slates them off all the time, I'd say they're bordering on underrated.

For example the Spain friendly at Wembley.

Before the game everyone was predicting how we were gonna get slaughtered and lose 5-0.

You didn't hear any England fans saying we were gonna win, we had realistic expectations.

Then when we prove all the haters wrong and beat Spain, nobody gives us any credit.

All you hear is how it's only a friendly and we got lucky and if it was at the Euros we would have lost.

All this England bashing is just sad and immature.

For example you, why did you feel the need to create this thread?

Another anti-Englander

[elijahbrooke]

(Original post by TRS-T)
For example you, why did you feel the need to create this thread?

To discuss a point why I think English players are massively overrated. That was my main point. Everyone seems to be getting sidetracked by the whole "Rooney's World Class" and "England Team" thingy, but they were to back up my main argument: English players are the most overrated players in the world. Hence why I created a poll, and at time of posting this, over 85% of people agreed that they are.

[Kevmeister]

(Original post by elijahbrooke)
To discuss a point why I think English players are massively overrated. That was my main point. Everyone seems to be getting sidetracked by the whole "Rooney's World Class" and "England Team" thingy, but they were to back up my main argument: English players are the most overrated players in the world. Hence why I created a poll, and at time of posting this, over 85% of people agreed that they are.

The bolded bit is simply not true - how can they be overrated in the world when only a few play abroad? Vastly underrated is what the vast majority of English players are.

[TRS-T]

(Original post by elijahbrooke)
To discuss a point why I think English players are massively overrated. That was my main point. Everyone seems to be getting sidetracked by the whole "Rooney's World Class" and "England Team" thingy, but they were to back up my main argument: English players are the most overrated players in the world. Hence why I created a poll, and at time of posting this, over 85% of people agreed that they are.

Foreign players are overrated.

[elijahbrooke]

(Original post by Kevmeister)
The bolded bit is simply not true - how can they be overrated in the world when only a few play abroad? Vastly underrated is what the vast majority of English players are.

They don't play abroad because they cost wayyy to much. And common sense dictates that it would make more sense to buy cheaper players who are just as good, if not better.

[Tucking Fypo]

I do agree with you...sort of. There's a premium on English players but I don't think it's because of their level of quality, it's just down to the nationality. As for the other examples you've picked, mostly City transfers, they're hardly reflective of what most teams would pay. Surprised how cheap Redknapp got Parker though, I'm sure Villa were after him a year or so ago.

[Kevmeister]

(Original post by elijahbrooke)
They don't play abroad because they cost wayyy to much. And common sense dictates that it would make more sense to buy cheaper players who are just as good, if not better.

You can't simply say that because, for example, Utd paid x for y that Real would've had to pay the same - Real are not in the same league, so likelihood is that the player would cost less for them.

[The Dynamic Uno]

Best English player at the moment Scott Parker? Genuinely laughed out loud. Hard.