Universities that *don't* like Access to HE applicants?

My last point where I pointed out the university was top 10 in it's area was to show that not all ex-poly's etc are 'mediocre' or 'bad'. I agree though regarding your statement about it mainly being the younger students who take a strange view of ex-poly's. Guess I just find it frustrating reading it all the time and the post above was the last one I could read before posting my thoughts lol.

In all honesty I think it's great people are aiming high and wanting to better themselves I just find it offensive or disrespectful when you read comments like "The most prestigious university that anyone else has applied for has been Uni of Manchester and so far they've all been rejected, which is maybe a little telling of what we can hope to achieve from an Access course."

All firms say this, some true some not so. Even those that use filters tend not to admit it or that they have jumps for applicants from certain elite unis. No they'd never admit that. I do know that S&M & Freshfields don't and do as you say above. The open day I referred to was at CC.

As far as I know the course isn't awarded any UCAS points & yes my friend said this was pointed out very clearly & questioned the CC official how they deal with such applications. The recruitment rep didn’t even really seem to know what an access was & just insisted that xxx UCAS points & 2:1 is required for UK applicants & and then seemed perplexed as to why she was holding the presentation in the first place... as was my mate and a few others who realised what she'd implied. My friend persisted but was hushed down by another CC rep who quickly changed the topic. Apparently the open day was initially scheduled for LLB students but for some reason was opened up to access students at the last minute.

All firms say this, some true some not so. Even those that use filters tend not to admit it or that they have jumps for applicants from certain elite unis. No they'd never admit that. I do know that S&M & Freshfields don't and do as you say above. The open day I referred to was at CC.

Hmmm, is there any anecdotal evidence about Access students going on work in any of those firms, then? I don't seem to know of anyone on TSR that has because people tend to leave this forum as soon as they finish uni unless they're going for postgrad studies.

Surely this is because those ex-poly institutions are now forced to compete with the 'traditional' universities and offer a similar range of subjects to match. Basically they have been forced into being jack of all trades and because of this they have lost their way on a some of the good things they used to do.

It is partly an issue around class/perception too.... becasue as you state, the term 'engineer' is widely associated with wiring plugs, fixing cars or washing machines and as such is seen as a lower class of job. Parents don't want their kids going to a poly and doing engineering, they want them to get a degree from university......

Hmmm, is there any anecdotal evidence about Access students going on work in any of those firms, then? I don't seem to know of anyone on TSR that has because people tend to leave this forum as soon as they finish uni unless they're going for postgrad studies.

Hopefully I'll be able to get clarification on this from the law firm reps at the not too late for law evening next month; I'll try and press for a referral to someone who'd know if the people attending don't.

Browse through the legal forums on this site. there are positive reports of access students (now at Oxbridge) getting into MC firms. One poster said she got through to the 2nd stage on all her apps bar CC where she failed at first hurdle. There are also threads from people who didn't do too great at A'level but ended up with firsts and 2.1's from top 20 unis asking if they should retake some alevels just so they can get the requested UCAS points for applications It is very competitive out there.



I wanted to attend but it falls within my exam period so some feedback would be appreciated. I'm a bit cynical because I've worked in recruitment and know that there are some things that will never be revealed, firms thrive off seeing high application figures. One a positive note, my mate did say that there were mature trainees, one of the 2011 intakes attended South Bank so provided you have the UCAS points and 2.1 your application will be looked at regardless of where you attended university.

I found this thread helpful in deciding to whether to do access or alevels and chose the latter. The thread did get a bit heated but usefeul points were noted, most overlooked by those arguing in favour of access but I can see on this thread that some have revised their arguments.

Browse through the legal forums on this site. there are positive reports of access students (now at Oxbridge) getting into MC firms. One poster said she got through to the 2nd stage on all her apps bar CC where she failed at first hurdle. There are also threads from people who didn't do too great at A'level but ended up with firsts and 2.1's from top 20 unis asking if they should retake some alevels just so they can get the requested UCAS points for applications It is very competitive out there.

I wanted to attend but it falls within my exam period so some feedback would be appreciated. I'm a bit cynical because I've worked in recruitment and know that there are some things that will never be revealed, firms thrive off seeing high application figures. One a positive note, my mate did say that there were mature trainees, one of the 2011 intakes attended South Bank so provided you have the UCAS points and 2.1 your application will be looked at regardless of where you attended university.

I found this thread helpful in deciding to whether to do access or alevels and chose the latter. The thread did get a bit heated but usefeul points were noted, most overlooked by those arguing in favour of access but I can see on this thread that some have revised their arguments.

That thread was completely debunked at the time. Nothing new to see hear. Move on people.

I read that thread, while I appreciated the point the OP was trying to make, he was... wrong.

not saying that access can't get you into a top tier uni u lot are obviously overlooking the posts from those access students (esp sciences) who said it didn't prepare them adequately and they had a lot of catchup to do. But if all you want to do is just get yourself through the front door & start off from behind better you than me.

yea i've read some of your posts - 19yr old opting to do access. more like lazy git, can't be bothered with alevels (despite opportunities to do so @ ur age), possibly consider them to be too much hard work would rather wait for a year 'thinkin over things' (a year that could be spent doing AS ) & then start access course in 2012 at 20 and finish at 21 & just meet the age cutoff to qualify as mature student. Yay! very smug move. all the best nonetheless

That would depend on the A Levels. Besides which, how would they know A Levels are easier if they're doing Access? Even if they did A Levels previously they can't have been in relevant subjects for the degree they want to do or they wouldn't be doing Access, so surely they have to reference point?

Just because the work is crammed into a shorter space of time it doesn't mean that A Levels are easier than Access. Higher workload =/= harder content.

I've said this elsewhere before, but for the subject I'm doing in university (a bioscience) there are people who came from Access saying that the first year material is completely going over their head. No one who did A Level seems to be having that problem (myself included). From this I would guess that the Access courses these people did were lighter on relevant material than the A Levels required for the course (chemistry, biology and a third subject, preferably science/maths).

1) That would depend on the A Levels. Besides which, how would they know A Levels are easier if they're doing Access? Even if they did A Levels previously they can't have been in relevant subjects for the degree they want to do or they wouldn't be doing Access, so surely they have to reference point?

2) Just because the work is crammed into a shorter space of time it doesn't mean that A Levels are easier than Access. Higher workload =/= harder content.

3) I've said this elsewhere before, but for the subject I'm doing in university (a bioscience) there are people who came from Access saying that the first year material is completely going over their head. No one who did A Level seems to be having that problem (myself included). From this I would guess that the Access courses these people did were lighter on relevant material than the A Levels required for the course (chemistry, biology and a third subject, preferably science/maths).

imo this discussion regards A level v Access is moot. Access is a vocational course that is vocationally led. it provides just enuff academia if u are going into a career like SW, for example (as i am).

i firmly believe that if u wanted to go read a science based degree, or indeed a classics degree at a redbrick...generally speaking (there will always be exceptions) an Access student would struggle, where an A level student probably wouldn't.

the only thing an Access course does is provide evidence to both uni's and oneself that confirms or belies potential ability that may or may not be borne out at uni.

have to be honest. at school, my teachers said i had the ability for oxbridge if i stopped messing about and worked. sadly i never did and now i have left it too late to read the sorta degree i wanted to read. today i am vocationally driven as well, and on my Access course i am sat amongst students that can barely string a coherent sentence together, certainly struggle with writing academically and incredibly, more often than not, don't seem to understand the material.

i'm not saying any of this to be big headed but to demonstrate a point regards access. my tutor says i have the highest level of understanding in my class. also says that the last time she had someone of my ability was 3 years ago. the point to mentioning this is as follows. i find what we do incredibly easy. where i struggle is crap time management and laziness due to boredom (sometimes) - i think this is because i'm on an access course. possibly, were i doing A levels. i'd be more stretched. ie, access is only challenging regards workload, not academically.

this is just my personal findings an view, mind. and i may well be incorrect. it's just to me, access is NOT as academic or as demanding as A levels. however it cannot be beaten as a foundation for vocationally led degree programmes and we have the advantage over any A level counterparts. again imo

I think Access students are more likely to stick out any teething problems at university because they're more likely to be older than A Level students and have given up more to get there. Many A Level students have yet to live in the working world and so don't really have experience of the other side of the coin, so to speak. I know that for me, not wanting to find myself in another dead end job is a huge motivating factor. During my first degree the idea of working seemed like a wonderful escape after a lifetime of education. I doubt it has much (if anything) to do with whether they did Access or A Levels to get there. Not to mention that a higher proportion of students on most degree courses are A Level students so there's more of a chance of a dropout being someone who did A Levels to get there.

As has been pointed out before, referencing is specific to each university department. During my first degree I had to provide references with numerical footnotes. In my current degree I reference within the text. Both systems I've used are incredibly easy and straightforward to understand so knowing one system beforehand is hardly a significant advantage. A Level students learn time management skills too in order to deal with the different coursework due dates, and plenty of them work part time on top of studying.

That said, I have no problem with Access and Access students. They provide many people with a gateway back into education, and I'm all for that.

Each to his own ashtoreth i dont struggle on some parts of my Access diploma either,the only parts i do tend to struggle is Maths and Science.
Mainly because Maths has never been a subject,that i have never liked doing, but i do know you require it for almost everything in life and Science, well i dont know what the said lecturer wants some of the times, so i just do enough to cover everything thats asked of me to successfully pass the assignment.


I already in the habit of "complex referencing " or to term the words used by one of my lecturers " never seen such excellent referencing like that for a long time" and other words to that effect
I am surprised most of my Access classmates cant even reference as well as i can at this particular point in our course as you defiantely expected to do so when u start university
They wouldnt spoon freed you either,they will just expect that by the time you go to university you are already aware of, how to reference which i have that advantage over my fellow classmates

I am also not saying all this to be big headed either.Each particular assignment we get given out is marked accordingely as set out on the Exam boards instructions/guidelines

yea i've read some of your posts - 19yr old opting to do access. more like lazy git, can't be bothered with alevels (despite opportunities to do so @ ur age), possibly consider them to be too much hard work would rather wait for a year 'thinkin over things' (a year that could be spent doing AS ) & then start access course in 2012 at 20 and finish at 21 & just meet the age cutoff to qualify as mature student. Yay! very smug move. all the best nonetheless

lost in translation, wizard! that's what happens when u rush

what i was trying to say (badly) is that i'm in agreement that Access does not prepare u for the traditional degrees at uni, just the vocational ones.

which is why in my view, access students have more catch up to do on traditional degrees but, where they come into their own on vocational ones...due to commitment etc.

what i was also trying to say (very badly lol) is that i'm not that smart but it comes to something when i am considered so by my tutors. i've been out the classroom nearly 2 decades. had forgotten how to write essays etc. hence the reason i mentioned how i'm doing just now. it's surprised ME more than anyone else. this is why i am suggesting that as an academic programme, it's not as demanding as A Levels.
but again, that could just be my mistaken take on the situ.