The Student Room Group

How come rail fare dodging is so rampant in Britain?

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Reply 60
Funny thing is as you shuffle on the train you can see all the folk in the same shoes clocking which carriage the inspector is at and then choosing which side to get in.

But £8 return/£5 single to go 15 miles is a disgrace.

It's the same issue with piracy and MP3's. People are fed up of being ripped off. Take cinemas, they can regularly run a picture with only eight people in the actual room - yet they don't have a last minute price reduction to entice more people in and make more money.

They want to extract the most profit per single unit rather than change their model to a fair value-high volume approach.
Reply 61
Original post by MagicNMedicine
Is it really rampant though?


Google up "rail fare evasion UK" You'd be surprised just how many law firms specialise in dealing with rail fare dodgers.

It cost TfL £63m per year alone.

Nationally estimates are between £200m to £800m based on the numbers that have been caught.

ToCs estimate for every journey there are at least 5-8% who are taking part in fare evasion.

That seems rather rampant no? Hence why so many ToCs are investing in either barriers or even more "Revenue Protection Officers"
Because rail travel is expensive if you use it on a daily basis and add it all up.

We get really bad conditions - overcrowding, no seats, dirty trains - and we have to pay an arm and a leg for it. So yeah, people like to go fare dodging.
Reply 63
Original post by theronkinator
I don't fare dodge, but my local station doesn't have an office or a machine so you can't actually buy a ticket. I had to get the train to work everyday for 8 months, it was during rush hour and only a 3-4 min journey so the ticket man never got to me. Paid like 11 times in 8 months. Score. Saved me over £200 (£1.10 a ticket).


Wouldn't it be quicker to walk?
I used to pay until I had a long journey from Leeds to Bristol and struggled to get a seat- the ticket was close to £100. Now I pay sometimes, dodge other times. Seeing how the tickets are twice the price they should be I don't feel guilty. Guarentee me a seat and I'll pay. Just getting me there is half a job- I want a seat. If they only provide a seat half the time I'll only pay half the time.
Reply 65
Original post by Aramiss18
I used to pay until I had a long journey from Leeds to Bristol and struggled to get a seat- the ticket was close to £100. Now I pay sometimes, dodge other times. Seeing how the tickets are twice the price they should be I don't feel guilty. Guarentee me a seat and I'll pay. Just getting me there is half a job- I want a seat. If they only provide a seat half the time I'll only pay half the time.


Is right.
Reply 66
Original post by Barden
that explains why my mate and i got caught on the berlin u-bahn then... we genuinely didnt know we were supposed to have validated our tickets though... got fined 40 euros each!


I don't blame you for not knowing, don't know if they had changed it since but it used to be that there was no sign in English at all asking you to do so, unless you knew the system no one could have known.

Original post by michael321

Switzerland is a substantially richer country, per head, than Britain, and it wouldn't surprise me if they come down rather harder on those who cheat the system. Also, though it's a stereotype, I believe the notion that the Germans and Swiss are fond of laying down rules and sticking to them is not wholly without foundation. Perhaps social attitudes are more conformist there?


The main difference between UK and Switzerland is there isn't such a wide disparity in household income.

True they do come down rather hard on people who do such things especially if it done for "banter" and yes generally people do follow the rules to the letter regardless of how silly it may be.



Original post by Hanvyj
Its often cheaper for me to hire a car than get the train home... wtf?


Haha... I remember one TopGear episode where each of the presenters were told to buy a £100 car and travel from London to Manchester. I guess there must be some truth to it.

However interestingly it actually boils down more towards the fact that it is substantially cheaper to rent cars in Britain than it is elsewhere in Europe.

Original post by EssexDan86
Trains in most of Europe are considerably cheaper than the UK - particularly in Spain I found. Pretty sure Germany was as well.

It's in the interests of the UK government to provide more subsidies for public transport, in order to boost the economy and promote use of public transport. However, instead the government decides to allow companies to raise their fares at considerably above the rate of inflation - it's plain wrong!



I just for kicks decided to see just how expensive really fares in UK are as opposed to those in Germany.

Departure : London (all stations) 19/12/12
Arrival : Birmingham (all stations)
Cost : £75 for the "fast" train 1hr24m or £7.50 for a slow train 2hr2m.

Departure : London (all stations) 13/12/12
Arrival : Birmingham (all stations)
Cost : £75 for the "fast" train or £15 for the slow train.

Distance :120 miles.


Departure : Berlin (Main station) 19/12/12
Arrival : Wolfsburg (Main station)
Cost : €47 for the fast train 1hr07m or €39 for the slow train 1hr27m. You could also buy a "fixed or restricted" fare for €10 less.

If you change the departure date to 13/12 then all that happens is there is no option for that fixed or restricted fare.

Distance : 150 miles.

Seems as if distance for distance London to Birmingham can be done cheaper than Berlin to Wolfsburg.
Original post by Herr
I don't blame you for not knowing, don't know if they had changed it since but it used to be that there was no sign in English at all asking you to do so, unless you knew the system no one could have known.





We also got done for having child tickets lol (we were 17)... but again that was due to the language barrier: the English version of the ticket machine menu called the child fare a 'cheap fare', which in the UK means off-peak... funnily enough though we spoke enough German to have probably got the jist if we'd just used the machine in German :facepalm:
Original post by Rascacielos
Because it's so easy to do - you can hide in the toilet or simply move around the coach so you avoid the inspector, etc. If you travel on some routes regularly, you get used to when inspectors are on duty and when they're not (and some routes I travel on never have inspectors). I've always bought a ticket even though I am 99% sure there won't be an inspector but I know if I didn't, I'd probably get away with it.


my ex gf got caught fare dodging on a journey that lasts literally 90secs lol... it can happen
Reply 69
Original post by Joinedup

I guess swiss people are more similar to Germans than Brits?

Imo It's worth cracking down on fare dodgers otherwise honest people will be too sacred to use the system due to trouble maker chavs just cruising back and forth picking on people.


Depends on region, Switzerland has French and Italian speaking regions as well.... though they all tend to be more Germanic.

True enough, it is definitely worth cracking down on fare dodgers for more than just the reasons you mentioned.

Original post by Lewis :D
Where I live the conductors don't always come around and we don't have a gate system, just hope on and get your ticket. If there's loads of chavs the conductors actually refuse to check tickets so it's not too difficult to get it for free.


What??? This has got to be a joke right?
Original post by Joinedup
Wouldn't it be quicker to walk?


Nope, it's 3.5 mile walk, or a 3-4 min train journey. The train goes a much more direct route than you can walk, basically the train does a straight line, imagine a triangle, the train does one line (the shortest), you have to walk the other two lines of the triangle (the longest two) and the train goes much faster. You can walk a similar line to the trains but it's still about 1.5-2 miles through fields and across a hill with bulls and sheep.
(edited 12 years ago)
Reply 71
Original post by Herr
What??? This has got to be a joke right?


Nope, they genuinely won't check for tickets if there are lots of chavs on the train.
Original post by Herr

What??? This has got to be a joke right?


Conductors do that here too. I get the school kid train two mornings and two afternoons a week and I'm yet to see a conductor check everyone's tickets on those trains. I get one early afternoon train a week with about 10-12 people max. on the train and the conductor always checks tickets on that one.

I always pay for my ticket but it does annoy me to just be wasting £10 per journey for no reason :frown:
30 minute train ride in the UK - £8

50 minute train ride in Germany - 3.50 Euros

That probably explains it, that and in Germany the trains are clean and on time.
Reply 74
Original post by The Real Quaid
I'll play Devil's Advocate here; maybe if there weren't so many people dodging fares, the prices might be cheaper.

Trains can only ever be on time or late as they can never set off early from a station.


Am not that familiar with rail technology, but I've always thought since trains run on electric it shouldn't take any more power to run whether it is a full train or an empty train? Not sure how fare dodging genuinely pushes up prices for everyone??? Care to explain please :smile:

Original post by popple7
omg why did i not know this sooner?! that is properly genius. i love how the thread started off questioning the differences between cultural attitudes, and turned into brits sharing stories and tips on how to dodge fares. makes me proud to be british :')


I must say some of the responses on here makes me chuckle and doesn't make me feel as homesick and LOL this got to be something quintessentially British or attitudes only found on Brit-dominated forums.... try talking this on a Swiss forum, the only thing that will happen is you'll find people moaning on foreigners abusing the system.

If there is a genuine way to save money, usually they won't share it with you either. The only way to get tips on saving money in Switzerland is usually to go on some of the forums usually utilized by foreigners LOL.
Reply 75
I got from Birmingham to London on a Virgin train for free. It's easy to see the inspector coming, and even if they do ask you then on the majority of trains (not Virgin though, unless you have loads of money to waste!!) you can buy a ticket from them. I know it's wrong, but I reckon if there's an empty seat that nobody's going to take, why can't someone have it?
Reply 76
maybe because it's so bloody expensive
Original post by theronkinator
I don't fare dodge, but my local station doesn't have an office or a machine so you can't actually buy a ticket. I had to get the train to work everyday for 8 months, it was during rush hour and only a 3-4 min journey so the ticket man never got to me. Paid like 11 times in 8 months. Score. Saved me over £200 (£1.10 a ticket).


This used to happen a lot with me, too. The village I lived in had an unmanned station, the town a 5 minute train journey away where I went to school was also unmanned. Neither had automated ticket machines, either, back then. Obviously I had friends living there and travelled there a lot... and it was very rare that a conductor came round to sell me a ticket. I wasn't fare dodging - I couldn't have paid for that train jouney if I'd wanted to! He didn't even come out into the train during that stretch... the full route of the train was like this:


A-------B--C--D--------------------------------------------E----F


...my journey being from B to C. The conductor only ever even came into the train carriages on the longer stretches - between A and B, then between D and E.

So yeah... that's why a lot of people do it. Because it's easy, and because several stations don't even have ticket vendors so they can't really automatically fine you for not having a ticket. I'll be honest and say that I even got the "B to F" journey without paying - again, my station had no ticket vendor, so I could only pay on the train when the conductor got to me. If I sat right at the opposite end to where he started ticket checking, he often wouldn't reach the other end of the train before the end of the journey. Why would I deliberately sit further down the train when I know fine well that the people at the back won't even have the opportunity to pay?

Although, that's resulted in a pretty big problem for them now. I don't live there any more, but last time I visited, station F had ticked barriers installed. B still has no vendor or machine. Meaning at peak times, you can get on the train at station B, have no one reach you to sell you a ticket by the time you reach station F, and so be stuck at the barriers with no ticket to get through. This happens to lots of people. They then have to queue up to buy a ticket to get through - which can take up to 20 minutes. It's retarded.
Reply 78
Original post by Rascacielos
Because it's so easy to do - you can hide in the toilet or simply move around the coach so you avoid the inspector, etc. If you travel on some routes regularly, you get used to when inspectors are on duty and when they're not (and some routes I travel on never have inspectors). I've always bought a ticket even though I am 99% sure there won't be an inspector but I know if I didn't, I'd probably get away with it.


LOL. Yeah. I have always wondered about the toilet trick. I though they check if you are in. Someone replies then they wait for you.
Original post by Agent Smirnoff
LOL. Yeah. I have always wondered about the toilet trick. I though they check if you are in. Someone replies then they wait for you.


I'm not sure inspectors can be bothered with the hassle (I'm sure some can, but the majority probably not). I know I went into the toilet once just as the ticket collector was going by and he didn't bother to wait for me to come out (I did have a ticket!). They'd be standing there forever if the person inside refused to come out.

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