Goths

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I am aware that a lot are decent people I know a lot of gothic people myself I just have issues with those people who are desperate to show how individually unique they are... generally these are the 'mallgoths' or what have you.

Emos, maybe... they're the try-hard types. Personally, I hate the emo subculture because of what it did to rock music. Sharing a music festival with fans of "My Chemical Romance" is just insulting.

Reply 41

concubine

Original post by SnoochToTheBooch

back in my school days, at the school I went to, being seen wearing jeans was enough to get you labelled a "goth" by the tracksuitted cider drinkers. funny as ****. If you liked rock music, you were a goth. If you skateboarded, you were a goth. If your haircut wasn't short back & sides, you were a goth. hahaha.

Haha, yeah.

I have no idea how many times I was called one, or asked if I was one. I wish more, or at least one of, the 'goths' at school/sixth form listened to black metal. MEBBE WE COULDA JAMMED.

Original post by Rant

Emos, maybe... they're the try-hard types. Personally, I hate the emo subculture because of what it did to rock music. Sharing a music festival with fans of "My Chemical Romance" is just insulting.

Yeah, well, us 'elitists' hate what the average music fans have done to all music. So suck it up, bro.

Reply 42

Linweth

Original post by Rant

Emos, maybe... they're the try-hard types. Personally, I hate the emo subculture because of what it did to rock music. Sharing a music festival with fans of "My Chemical Romance" is just insulting.

Ha yeah I can understand the insult there, what bands do you listen to then? :colone:

Reply 43

HellOnHighHeels

I'm a metalhead, and through my love of corsets/having black hair-I'm also a fan of vintage glamour, people have stereotyped me into being a Goth, although personally, I prefer not to label myself, it leads to hate.
Identity Theory might help you-it explains a lot :smile:

Reply 44

username474976

Attention-seeking, self-obsessed drips.

And to those who are going to inevitably argue - there's no getting around it; they choose that physical appearance for no other reason than attention. You don't wear matrix coats, boots with flames on, pale make-up, strange piercings and ridiculous hair unless you're consciously trying to be different and to stand out.

I couldn't care less what taste of music people have but in terms of goths' appearance, it's obviously a childish cry for attention. Also, every goth I've ever met has always been highly unsuccessful - I mean, what kind of reputable employer would even want them?

Reply 45

concubine

Original post by maskofsanity

Unless... It's just what you like to wear. You ignorant ****.

/I think it looks ridiculous too, but people like you can just go suck cock in hell.

Reply 46

HellOnHighHeels

Original post by maskofsanity

Because naturally, those of us who have naturally pale skin & hate fake tan are going to wear dark makeup.

Reply 47

W-Three

Original post by Nice Marmite

Out of interest, what is the difference between trying hard to look different and trying hard to look the same?

Very little.

Reply 48

Nice Marmite

Original post by W-Three

Very little.

It's a shame more people don't recognise this.

Reply 49

username474976

Original post by concubine

Unless... It's just what you like to wear. You ignorant ****.

/I think it looks ridiculous too, but people like you can just go suck cock in hell.

I'm about as ignorant as you are articulate.

Yes, it's what they want to wear; obviously it's what they want to wear; I was giving the reason for why they want to wear it and that reason is attention and a false sense of individuality.

Reply 50

spiral87

Original post by Daniellejo.

I can't see how subsribing to an 'emo' subculture can be said to in anyway be breaking social norms.
[...]
At the end of the day most of us are follwing some sort of social expectation and there's no way that by dressing in an emo way you are breaking norms.

I suppose it's a matter of opinion as to whether it could be considered breaking society's norms or not. Unless you're designing/wearing your own clothes, you're no doubt going to follow some sort of trend.

The only further to point I can make is that a lot of people who are comfortable in their mainstream lifestyles can feel intimidated by non-mainstream people, they stereotype entire subcultures unfairly and most employers don't like any hints of individuality at all. So in that respect, I still maintain it's breaking societal norms to a degree. And being "alternative" can also be seen as a means of self-isolation.

Reply 51

Manitude

I get the impression that a lot of so-called goths give off an image of being unapproachable and unfriendly, but if you were to actually get to know them they are very normal people. They just dress differently and listen to different music.

Reply 52

Steezy

In my experience they're very friendly people who tend to want acceptance but really don't want to show it.

Kind of a reaction to rejection in a lot of cases I think. It would seem they were maybe bullied quite severely or turned down or used by people they thought highly of, so they became sick of having they feelings and ego crushed that they decide they want to hide their feelings and take on an overtly "IDGAF" appearance & attitude.

This is why I think a lot of goths are aged between 10 to 25, because this is the age that people are the harshest.

That's what I think anyway.

Emo's are like the goth's posh, wannabe cousin.

(edited 12 years ago)

Reply 53

Kätzchen

Original post by maskofsanity

Also, every goth I've ever met has always been highly unsuccessful - I mean, what kind of reputable employer would even want them?

I would disagree. As a subculture, generally goths are educated achievers; they want to succeed, are intelligent and bookish - quite a perfect employee. Also worth pointing out that you can't always distinguish goths in the workplace.

I think many people in this thread have very young teenagers in mind when discussing what they view as goth. In actuality, you're generally looking at people aged early twenties and up.

Reply 54

kerily

I can't stand 'emos', because they all appear to shop in Blue Banana, veer towards the weeaboo side of things (irritating 'obsession' with Japan where the only word they know is 'kawaii'), proclaim the superiority of Skullcandy headphones whenever you question them on why the **** they have neon growths around their necks, listen to absolutely ****e music and seem allergic to enjoying themselves or appreciating their parents/friends/the need to get a part-time job if you want to spend a fortune on clothes/etc. ~~(Also because I was a bit like this when I was 13 and I'm trying to atone for it with self-hate. )~~

Goths, however, I have no issue with. I know a lot of friendly and outgoing goths; there were a couple in my town who used to run a shop selling crafts and jewellery when I was younger, and they taught me how to stretch my ears safely. Plenty of them seem to do it because they like it and not to make a 'statement', and enjoy their lives, just in a different fashion to most people.

(edited 12 years ago)

Reply 55

nohomo

Original post by maskofsanity

It might just be what they want to wear. Kids dress up for fun on their own. It's maybe similar to that.

I'm antisocial and would rather people didn't notice me when I'm out places, but I don't walk about with a short back and sides haircut in a suit. I dress pretty normally, but with quite long hair, just because I like it, not to stand out or for a sense of individuality really. Just because I like it.

Reply 56

username474976

Original post by Kätzchen

Rubbish. The high achievers at schools are generally not goths - that is a blatantly false statement which you've tried to veil as a fact. The most successful students are those who get involved in sports and other extra-curricular (a goth's worst nightmare) whilst maintaining high grades.

Well, if you're older than that and still haven't grown out of silly subcultures then there's no hope for you.

Original post by nohomo

It might just be what they want to wear. Kids dress up for fun on their own. It's maybe similar to that.

That is a great comparison and you've just proven my point that the gothic subculture is a childish one.

It's no coincidence that all these extreme styles of fashion are prevalent amongst teenagers; you'll be hard-stretched to find many aged in their late-twenties and thirties. They're just silly, meaningless phases that they'll grow out of.

Reply 57

Kätzchen

Original post by maskofsanity

There are many academic papers and books on goth, which conclude exactly what I outlined - look for books and articles written by Dunja Brill and Paul Hodkinson to start with.

Also, I don't think I said they are the only high achievers (although I'm dubious about your sports claims), no idea why you seemed to think that.

Your pointless and petty insult only serves to make you look worse. :smile:

Reply 58

username474976

Original post by Kätzchen

I'm sure they won't be biased...

Reply 59

nohomo

Original post by maskofsanity

I wasn't trying to claim that goths aren't childish before. I was just pointing out that someone who chooses clothes which stand out isn't necessarily doing it for attention: it might just be what they want to wear.

It could also be to fit in with a group at school, rather than to stand out. Having friends at school might make them happier than having the approval of a bunch of middle aged strangers who they see when they're walking home from school. They might actually agree with you that they look like a ****.

You have more control over your social circle, spare time and your work on weekdays as you get older so you will probably end up around more like-minded people. Perhaps this could contribute to your view that as you get older, fewer and fewer people are goths.

Also, it could be that depression and other mental health problems are more likely in goths, or simply that these things are romanticised by "gothic" or similar cultures, and they might end up dying young either through suicide or through other unhealthy or dangerous life choices.

Or perhaps they give up the goth fashion because their jobs demand that they do, and not because they personally feel they've "outgrown it".

Or as they get older, perhaps they feel that they can't pull off the "gothic" style any more, even though they still like it. Or perhaps they worry that the gothic style is just not accepted in 40 year olds like it is in teenagers, so they don't keep the gothic style, because of social pressure. Perhaps this is what people in the clothing industry assume will happen, so they simply don't stock gothic clothes for older people as much.

Why not just leave them to it? It's what they want to wear.

(I've never been a goth by the way).

(edited 12 years ago)