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D&D Theology's "Ask About Islam" Thread Mk. IV

Reply 300

fruitfan

Original post by mel0n

What exactly do you mean? A marriage between two children or a marriage between an adult and a child?

Between a child and adult. Eg an 11 year old and 44 year old.

Reply 301

SaintSoldier

10

Original post by sophia_

Universally agreed that the Qur'an has.

No it isn't.

It is only universally accepted amongst Muslims because Islam would completely fall apart if the Qur'an has been altered.

There are also historical accounts with portray that there were different "Qur'ans" in circulation immediately before 'Uthman's reign.

But I'm used to the "that's unreliable" claim that is usually thrown at inconveniences in historical accounts.

Reply 302

mel0n

17

Original post by SaintSoldier

No it isn't.

It is only universally accepted amongst Muslims because Islam would completely fall apart if the Qur'an has been altered.

There are also historical accounts with portray that there were different "Qur'ans" in circulation immediately before 'Uthman's reign.

But I'm used to the "that's unreliable" claim that is usually thrown at inconveniences in historical accounts.

There were not different Qur'ans in circulation in the way that you suggest. There were/are different methods of recitation and what Uthman r.a did was compile the Qur'an in one dialect because people, as far as I know, were mixing the different dialects/recitations. All recitations have the same meaning.

So when the Islamic State expanded, ‘Uthmaan (may Allaah be pleased with him) heard of the differences among the people in regards to the Quran. Hudhayfah (may Allaah be pleased with him) came to him and said “Save the people,” he consulted the Companions who were still alive at this time, such as ‘Ali, Talhah, al-Zubayr and others, and they suggested compiling the Qur’aan in one style, so that the people would not differ. So he compiled it (may Allaah be pleased with him), and he formed a four-man committee for that task, headed by Zayd ibn Thaabit (may Allaah be pleased with him). So they compiled the Qur'aan in one style, and copied it and distributed it to the various regions so that the people could rely on it and so as to put an end to disputes.

With regard to the seven recitations or ten recitations, they are present in what was compiled by ‘Uthmaan, and have to do with adding a letter or omitting a letter, or elongating or shortening a vowel. All of that is included in the one style that ‘Uthmaan (may Allaah be pleased with him) compiled. The intention behind that was to preserve the word of Allaah and protect people from differences that could harm them or cause fitnah among them. Allaah has not enjoined reciting it in the seven styles, rather the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allaah be upon him) said: “Recite whichever is easiest.” So the people’s agreeing upon one style is a good action for which ‘Uthmaan and the Companions (may Allaah be pleased with them) are to be appreciated.

Reply 303

amerzeb

8

Original post by mel0n

What exactly do you mean? A marriage between two children or a marriage between an adult and a child?

When a person reaches the age of puberty he/she are allowed to get married, but the choice is up to them, they are not allowed to be forced into marriage

Reply 304

fruitfan

Original post by amerzeb

When a person reaches the age of puberty he/she are allowed to get married, but the choice is up to them, they are not allowed to be forced into marriage

I see
So in parts of asia where young girls are forced, they would be doing wrong/haram ?

Thank you :smile:

Reply 305

TheHuman

1

Original post by fruitfan

I see
So in parts of asia where young girls are forced, they would be doing wrong/haram ?

Thank you :smile:

Yes, absolutely! :smile:

Reply 306

mel0n

17

Original post by fruitfan

I see
So in parts of asia where young girls are forced, they would be doing wrong/haram ?

Thank you :smile:

Forced marriages are not Islamic :no:

Original post by amerzeb

When a person reaches the age of puberty he/she are allowed to get married, but the choice is up to them, they are not allowed to be forced into marriage

Yeah, I was just trying to clarify what fruitfan was asking :colondollar:

(edited 12 years ago)

Reply 307

SaintSoldier

10

Original post by mel0n

There were not different Qur'ans in circulation in the way that you suggest. There were/are different methods of recitation and what Uthman r.a did was compile the Qur'an in one dialect because people, as far as I know, were mixing the different dialects/recitations. All recitations have the same meaning.

http://answering-islam.org/Quran/Text/

Ignore the bit about the Bible, I'm not promoting Christianity.

The main thing is the bits of this page that refer to verses, and sometimes whole Surahs, that are missing from the standardised Qur'an.

Reply 308

fruitfan

Original post by mel0n

Forced marriages are not Islamic :no:

Yeah, I was just trying to clarify what fruitfan was asking :colondollar:

Thank you very much :smile:

Reply 309

amerzeb

8

Original post by mel0n

Yeah, I was just trying to clarify what fruitfan was asking :colondollar:

Thats ok

Reply 310

shady_123

Original post by fruitfan

Does islam.allow child marriages ?

What is your defintion of a child ?

Reply 311

GabGirl

Original post by In2deep

Just to add a little bit; The Prophets in Islaam were the best of mankind and were infallible in the transmission of the message, i.e, the did not forget anything, nor did they deduct or add anything to what Allaah (swt) ordered them, not a major nor minor sin was committed in this regards.

As for sins in other regards, they never committed major sins but were not infallible regarding minor sins but if they committed such actions they were not left to persist therein, rather Allaah (swt) pointed that out to them and they hastened to repent therefrom. May Allaah (swt) make them a constant reminder to the Muslims and guide us like he guided them..

I agree with what you have said . But was wondering if you had any evidence to back up the statement in bold .

Reply 312

Perseveranze

13

Original post by SaintSoldier

No it isn't.

It is only universally accepted amongst Muslims because Islam would completely fall apart if the Qur'an has been altered.

Do not dellude yourself, like most non-academics do. Yes, it is universally agreed (Muslim and Orientilist) by Academics that there's little doubt on the Quranic authenticity -

[INDENT] Edwards Peters states that "Few have failed to be convinced that what is in our copy of the Quran is, in fact, what Muhammad taught, and is expressed in his own words".[10]

"Modern study of the Qur'an has not in fact raised any serious question of its authenticity. The style varies, but is almost unmistakable." - Bell and Watt[/INDENT] Trust me, this is not like the Bible.

Original post by SaintSoldier

There are also historical accounts with portray that there were different "Qur'ans" in circulation immediately before 'Uthman's reign.

"different"? Please research the topic a bit.

During the period of Caliph Uthman (third successor to the Prophet) differences in reading the Quran among the various tribes became obvious, due to the various dialectical recitations. No one was "adding or changing" verses, the issue was the way people were pronouncing the words. The Prophet(pbuh) only allowed 7 variations to be recited (they all pretty much have the same meaning, just different way of reciting).

Dispute was arising, with each tribe calling its recitation as the correct one. This alarmed Uthman, who made a official copy in the Quraishi dialect, the dialect in which the Quran was revealed to the Prophet and was memorized by his companions.

When the Sana'a scriptures were found, they pretty much confirmed what the hadiths had said.
[INDENT]'Two of the copies of the Qur'an which were originally prepared in the time of Caliph Uthman, are still available to us today and their text and arrangement can be compared, by anyone who cares to do, with any other copy of the Quran, be it in print or handwritten, from any place or period of time. They will be found identical'. (ibid., p,64)
[/INDENT]

Original post by SaintSoldier

But I'm used to the "that's unreliable" claim that is usually thrown at inconveniences in historical accounts.

I hope my reply has given you some background info. It's usually Christians who spread the false information (I wonder why :biggrin:

), otherwise there really is little case in the claim of historical reliablility.

As another Non Muslim historian made clear -

[INDENT]" There is otherwise every security, internal and external, that we possess the text which Muhammad himself gave forth and used" - (Sir Williams Muir, Life of Mohamet, Vol.I. Introduction)[/INDENT]

Original post by SaintSoldier

http://answering-islam.org/Quran/Text/

Please don't waste our time with pasting what bias/lying anti-Islamic sites try to say.

Answering-Islam by all means have been known to spread false propoganda, it is a Christian based site. I remember when even Wiki banned referencing from them. lol

You will still if you search around find "refutations" to their claims, however I wouldn't waste my time, unless you believe these amatuers have "found something" that the majority of the non-Muslim Academics in the world havn't.

(edited 12 years ago)

Reply 313

The_Last_Melon

3

Does the Qur'an tell Muslims to pray facing Mecca?

Reply 314

Perseveranze

13

Original post by The_Last_Melon

Does the Qur'an tell Muslims to pray facing Mecca?

[INDENT] From whencesoever Thou startest forth, turn Thy face in the direction of the sacred Mosque; that is indeed the truth from the Lord. And Allah is not unmindful of what ye do. So from whencesoever Thou startest forth, turn Thy face in the direction of the sacred Mosque; and wheresoever ye are, Turn your face thither: that there be no ground of dispute against you among the people, except those of them that are bent on wickedness; so fear them not, but fear Me; and that I may complete My favours on you, and ye May (consent to) be guided;
—Qur'an, sura 2 (Al-Baqara), ayat 149 - 150
[/INDENT]

Reply 315

Tpos

17

Original post by Perseveranze

During the period of Caliph Uthman (second successor to the Prophet)

Third successor*

You can find his very own copy of the Quran in Turkey, the one on which his blood fell on the verse "Allah is sufficient for you against them" when he was murdered! I want to see it!

Reply 316

The_Last_Melon

3

Original post by Perseveranze

[INDENT] From whencesoever Thou startest forth, turn Thy face in the direction of the sacred Mosque; that is indeed the truth from the Lord. And Allah is not unmindful of what ye do. So from whencesoever Thou startest forth, turn Thy face in the direction of the sacred Mosque; and wheresoever ye are, Turn your face thither: that there be no ground of dispute against you among the people, except those of them that are bent on wickedness; so fear them not, but fear Me; and that I may complete My favours on you, and ye May (consent to) be guided;
—Qur'an, sura 2 (Al-Baqara), ayat 149 - 150
[/INDENT]

I can't help but see idolatry beneath these orders.

Reply 317

Perseveranze

13

Original post by The_Last_Melon

I can't help but see idolatry beneath these orders.

Well, it is amazingly hypocrital for any Christian to say that firstly :rolleyes:

. Secondly, I'd first work on being open minded, then try to learn more about other faiths. Otherwise, you won't benefit much.

[INDENT]Among His Signs are the Night and the Day, and the Sun and the Moon.Do not prostrate to the sun and the moon, but prostrate to Allah, Who created them, if it is Him ye wish to serve. [Quran 41:37]

[/INDENT]

Original post by Tpos

Third successor*

You can find his very own copy of the Quran in Turkey, the one on which his blood fell on the verse "Allah is sufficient for you against them" when he was murdered! I want to see it!

Jazakhallah.

Reply 318

mel0n

17

Original post by The_Last_Melon

I can't help but see idolatry beneath these orders.

You're a Christian, right?

Reply 319

The_Last_Melon

3

Original post by mel0n

You're a Christian, right?

Yes. I can see where you're going and it's not applicable to me. I do not bow down to earthly things or depict anything in heaven. But even if I did how does that make it okay for you to do that? You have to keep these commandments too right?

D&D Theology's "Ask About Islam" Thread Mk. IV

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