[TheHuman]

(Original post by Indo-Chinese Food)
Im reasonabley well versed in pre islamic socety and beliefs - there is no historical record of abrahams arrival in arabia, building the kabaa or any islamic worship before mohammed amoungst arabs.

There is no historical evidence apart from the Bible & the Qur'an about Abraham and I assume you don't believe in any of those two scriptures. So, why are you bringing up "historical record"?
Anyway, a Rabbi for the first few minutes, here attempts to show how the Bible supports Ishmael's presence and genealogy in Arabia. He does not believe in Islam, obviously, but just watch the video.
http://fora.tv/2008/09/18/An_Introdu...Islam_for_Jews
If you do not believe in the Bible as a historical record, then why are you attempting to use it to disprove Islamic sources, which you equally do not believe in as a historical record? I believe that the Bible to some extent is corrupted, but it still has fragments of it that are in accordance with Islamic scriptures.

Equally the torah and gospels do not mention mohammed at all, whereas they do mention abraham, issac, jesus etc

They do not mention him by name, but they mention a Prophet to come, did you read the PDF, I posted?

What proof today for muslims would equate to whatever proof mohammed provided during his time (you didnt clarify what this was btw)

I am not sure, one of the proofs he gave was the linguistic miracle of the Qur'an, maybe he'd have to provide something greater than that?

[Indo-Chinese Food]

(Original post by TheHuman)
There is no historical evidence apart from the Bible & the Qur'an about Abraham and I assume you don't believe in any of those two scriptures. So, why are you bringing up "historical record"?
Anyway, a Rabbi for the first few minutes, here attempts to show how the Bible supports Ishmael's presence and genealogy in Arabia. He does not believe in Islam, obviously, but just watch the video.
http://fora.tv/2008/09/18/An_Introdu...Islam_for_Jews
If you do not believe in the Bible as a historical record, then why are you attempting to use it to disprove Islamic sources, which you equally do not believe in as a historical record? I believe that the Bible to some extent is corrupted, but it still has fragments of it that are in accordance with Islamic scriptures.

They do not mention him by name, but they mention a Prophet to come, did you read the PDF, I posted?



I am not sure, one of the proofs he gave was the linguistic miracle of the Qur'an, maybe he'd have to provide something greater than that?

No what i meant was there is historical record that moahmmed lived in arabia, and that islam was practiced duing and after his existence. There is no such record of abraham living in arabia, nor os ialm being practiced before mohammed.

ok so basically the answer to that question is, some who could come up with a new book like the quran would be a new prophet in islam? (although im aware mohammed didnt write the quran?)

[TheHuman]

(Original post by Indo-Chinese Food)
No what i meant was there is historical record that moahmmed lived in arabia, and that islam was practiced duing and after his existence. There is no such record of abraham living in arabia, nor os ialm being practiced before mohammed.

OK. Quick Answer.
1. Well, we don't say that Islam (in Religion as we know it now) was practised before Muhammad (PBUH), but that Abraham preached monotheism to the Arabs, (probably with laws of prohibition and permissiblity, etc), but that they later became corrupt and became pagans.
Christians tend to be quick to draw the "Pagan origins of Islam" card, by looking at the similarity of several practices in the Pre-Islamic era that still exist in the Islamic teachings, but as I said we believe that Abraham established these.
Funny actually, Christians claim Islam to have Pagan practices, when they themselves have taken pagan practices and integrated them into Christianity (e.g. Christmas - Origin: Saturnalia).
http://www.onislam.net/english/ask-a...gan-roots.html

2. Well apart from the Bible & Qur'an, there is no historical evidence that Abraham and many other prophets even ever existed, so how can you even say "no such record of abraham living in arabia", when you neither believe the Bible nor the Qur'an and therefore from your point of view you should not even have any evidence to stand on that Abraham ever existed. If you watched the video, there is some evidence in the Torah, that Ishmael his son, lived in Arabia, could there not be a possibility that Abraham came with him?

ok so basically the answer to that question is, some who could come up with a new book like the quran would be a new prophet in islam? (although im aware mohammed didnt write the quran?)

OK. Let's look at it, slowly.
Because the Qur'an states that Muhammad (PBUH) is the seal of the Prophets:

"Muhammad is not the father of any man among you, but he is the messenger of Allah and the Seal of the Prophets; and Allah is ever Aware of all things." 33:40

A new prophet would violate the Qur'an, so for him to call himself a Prophet he'd have to call the Qur'an corrupt. If he does so, then it would be understandable that God would provide him with a new scripture to replace the corrupted scripture that came before it. If he is a real Prophet, then God would provide him with miracles and signs so people can believe in him, the scripture itself could be a miracle/sign/proof that he is a Prophet and that he has received a revelation.

That would be the most logical way to look at it.

Does that clear it up for you?

[Eemon_Harris]

1 The Qur'an refers to alcohol as an "abomination" and "Satan's handwork", so why does the Qur'an also praise alcohol and emphasize the point that it is something found in heaven?

2 When used in moderation, there are numerous benefits in the consumption of alcohol.Rather than giving us an outright ban, shouldn't Allah have only prohibited its abuse?

3 The Qur'an encourages people to drink milk and tells us it is something being served in the Muslim Paradise, but if you claim the potential health risk of alcohol was enough to cause its prohibition, why not also ban the drinking of milk which is potentially more harmful?

4 If life is a test, isn't banning alcohol in Muslim countries the same as interfering in Allah's affairs?

positive feed back would be appreciated, cheers.

[shihaab33]

(Original post by Eemon_Harris)
1 The Qur'an refers to alcohol as an "abomination" and "Satan's handwork", so why does the Qur'an also praise alcohol and emphasize the point that it is something found in heaven?

2 When used in moderation, there are numerous benefits in the consumption of alcohol.Rather than giving us an outright ban, shouldn't Allah have only prohibited its abuse?

3 The Qur'an encourages people to drink milk and tells us it is something being served in the Muslim Paradise, but if you claim the potential health risk of alcohol was enough to cause its prohibition, why not also ban the drinking of milk which is potentially more harmful?

4 If life is a test, isn't banning alcohol in Muslim countries the same as interfering in Allah's affairs?

positive feed back would be appreciated, cheers.

1.the risk alcohol poses to the individual and society is something that does not need to be tutored to the western society. the drunkennes, the health problems,crimes associate with alcoholism is evident in everywhere you look so I think every sane person needn't be tutored whether you would associate alcohol with good or with the evil, secondly the drink given to those in paradise has none of the effects of alcohol, no liver problem, no drunkeness, just a pure pleasure.

2.the answer to this question is quite easy to deduct by just observing the practicality of allowing something in moderation. whenever you allow a harmful substance to be taken in moderation, you are principally agreeing that it is okey to use, so by allowing it to be taken in moderation, you have given the greenlight. so how would you go back and say okey it is fine but have a little bit no one would listen and society will suffer and the statistics are everywhere to support that.

3.I would like to ask you this question:do you actually believe having a glass of milk is harmful that a pint?! whisky and vodka?!! should we ban breastfeeding? should we stop animals from sucking milk from their mothers?!


4. no, it not interfering with ALLAH'S affairs. Because ALLAH has prohibited whoever submits to his will not drink alcohol. and the Muslim nations are merely following ALLAH'S orders by banning alcohol and all its ill effects.

[mariachi]

(Original post by Indo-Chinese Food)
No what i meant was there is historical record that moahmmed lived in arabia, and that islam was practiced duing and after his existence. There is no such record of abraham living in arabia, nor os ialm being practiced before mohammed.

this is correct

while there are a few quasi-contemporary historical records for Muhammad, Abraham is not a historical figure : his existence is recorded in texts (such as Genesis) which were written more than one thousand years after his "life"

[Vixen47]

Hi guys!
Whats that thing called where you sacrifice a cow, sheep or camel and give meat to the poor(?) so that they pray for you or whoever you sacrificed it for? Also, is this definition correct??

[HeavyTeddy]

As-Salam Alaikum.

I was just wondering if a career in civil/business litigation/negligence is halal for a Muslim lawyer to pursue?

Jazzakallah Khair.

[amerzeb]

(Original post by HeavyTeddy)
As-Salam Alaikum.

I was just wondering if a career in civil/business litigation/negligence is halal for a Muslim lawyer to pursue?

Jazzakallah Khair.

what do you do in the career of civil/business litigation/negligence?

[HeavyTeddy]

(Original post by amerzeb)
what do you do in the career of civil/business litigation/negligence?

http://legalcareers.about.com/od/leg...litigation.htm

That should explain it briefly.

[amerzeb]

(Original post by Vixen47)
Hi guys!
Whats that thing called where you sacrifice a cow, sheep or camel and give meat to the poor(?) so that they pray for you or whoever you sacrificed it for? Also, is this definition correct??

Qhurbani is the word for sacrificing an animal.

Well muslims do that on Eid ul Adha, the bigger Eid festival. sacrifice an animal and a 1/3 of the meat is given to the poor.

this link my answer your question.

http://www.islamawareness.net/Eid/azha.html

hope that answers the question.

[amerzeb]

(Original post by HeavyTeddy)
http://legalcareers.about.com/od/leg...litigation.htm

That should explain it briefly.

I did a quick can and as I am not a shaykh so i dont have a diffinative answer. But if the lawyer is defending the person who is in the guilty and knows he/she is guilty then that is not right is it?

I am not sure if that will help you but it is the best I can do

And Allah knows best

[grad_dentist]

As-Salamu Alaykum (Translation: Peace be with you)

I'm Muslim and in my 20s. I wanted to ask about this ''72 virgins'' thing I have read on TSR and in newspapers. Where has this come from? I ask because I have never been told about this or even heard anyone disucssing this in the family or even whilst attending the mosque. Can a fellow Muslim please explain it to me? Thanks.

[amerzeb]

(Original post by grad_dentist)
As-Salamu Alaykum (Translation: Peace be with you)

I'm Muslim and in my 20s. I wanted to ask about this ''72 virgins'' thing I have read on TSR and in newspapers. Where has this come from? I ask because I have never been told about this or even heard anyone disucssing this in the family or even whilst attending the mosque. Can a fellow Muslim please explain it to me? Thanks.

[chickenonsteroids]

Does anyone here accept abrogation in the Quran? If so, is it complicated ?

[TheHuman]

(Original post by chickenonsteroids)
Does anyone here accept abrogation in the Quran? If so, is it complicated ?

From what I know, one can't abrogate a verse themselves, only God can.

"We do not abrogate a verse or cause it to be forgotten except that We bring forth [one] better than it or similar to it. Do you not know that Allah is over all things competent?" 2:106 (Sahih)

There are certain number of verses in the Qur'an that have been abrogated by others, the ones that come to mind are the ones that refer to alcohol. I.e. alcohol was slowly made forbidden in stages. At some point, people were allowed to drink alcohol but not pray while they are intoxicated.

"O you who have believed, do not approach prayer while you are intoxicated until you know what you are saying or in a state of janabah, except those passing through [a place of prayer], until you have washed [your whole body]. And if you are ill or on a journey or one of you comes from the place of relieving himself or you have contacted women and find no water, then seek clean earth and wipe over your faces and your hands [with it]. Indeed, Allah is ever Pardoning and Forgiving." 4:43

Alcohol was then made completely forbidden.

Which verses have been abrogated are to be found in the Tafsir (exegesis) and the Hadith.

Hope that answer your question. I am not sure what you mean by "is it complicated?".

[chickenonsteroids]

(Original post by TheHuman)
Hope that answer your question. I am not sure what you mean by "is it complicated?".

i.e how do you know which verses have been abrogated or not

I know only god can but do you think he'll send down like an updated Quran or something? lol how could a human do it?

[grad_dentist]

Ultimately, what does Allah want from us?

What do we have to do to earn a place in Paradise?

[TheHuman]

(Original post by chickenonsteroids)
i.e how do you know which verses have been abrogated or not

I know only god can but do you think he'll send down like an updated Quran or something? lol how could a human do it?

I did say in my post:

"Which verses have been abrogated are to be found in the Tafsir (exegesis) and the Hadith."

Now scholars who would studied these extinsively would know which verses were abrogated, I am not one, lol, nor do I currently have time to read all the dozens of exegesis books.

No, we do not believe that God would send down an updated Qur'an, but we are expecting the return of the Messiah (Jesus son of Mary) and the coming of an Imam (known as the Mahdi). So the Mahdi along with Jesus would rule the Islamic world, if they were to apply the Qur'an in the context of their time, well, they'd know best. Some speculate that they would reform Islam, but that's not an orthodox position.

Don't quote on me on this, it may very well change as I learn more:
I suppose one could say, ruling abc was revealed in response to situation xyz, situation xyz is no longer present and ruling abc currently therefore causes more harm than good (Hadith says that which causes more harm than good is forbidden), so we can "twist" the ruling to apply to the current situation in country X in the year Y.

Hope that answers your question.

[amerzeb]

(Original post by grad_dentist)
Ultimately, what does Allah want from us?

What do we have to do to earn a place in Paradise?

It is through Allah's mercy that we may enter paradise. it is a reward for the hard work we do for the sake of Allah. We always ask Allah to grant us paradise and be of the righteous people.
If you read the chapter 103 of the glorious Quran these are the minimum requirements needed to enter paradise
And Allah knows best.
If i have said anything wrong please correct me and I ask Allah for forgivness