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Cambridge Graduate - Failing at Life! =/

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    (Original post by iSMark)
    Well I guess I fit the bill being a graduate (although not from oxbrige), although that is a rather large percentage of people looking for graduate jobs.

    My view isn't biased. I didn't get a 2.2 (2.1), I didn't go to Oxbridge and I have a graduate job. I'm guessing you're a student then? So you haven't looked for a graduate job then?
    Have had? Or have you got a new grad job now?
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    Employers flexible ? In this market ? Are you people insane.

    I'm sorry but in order to make up for a 2.2 you need ALOT of work experience and serious networking. The OP needs to put the grade away and focus on those two things. If you build up enough experience 2-3 solid years, develop lots of skills and demonstrate some tangible achievements in the workplace you can pretty much move your qualifications to the bottom of your c.v and emphasize your work experience in its entirety.

    At the junior (graduate) level you need to have a 2.1 these days because almost every single firm will filter you by grade unless you've got something brilliant on your resume at this stage in your career.

    All isn't lost but I'd avoid the traditional grad schemes who also put filters on anything below a 2.1 and focus exclusively on work experience, skills and developing strong contacts. These things are all relatively achievable if you look at it as a 2-3 year stretch.

    As for the salary the bulk of graduates don't work in finance which in my view overpays people for work that most reasonably educated graduates could do.
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    Boo hoo, you're only earning an average salary and working with 'common' people and all of a sudden it's the end of the World. I think the majority of the international population would jump for joy if they were offered the opportunity to earn over £20,000 for 50 hours work a week.

    You're obviously an intelligent person; a good university degree doesn't determine whether your going to be successful in life. I'm sure you have plenty of time to follow the career path you want to, however, I think for the moment you should just appreciate what you do have. You're probably living like the average person in the UK right now (money wise), so this will probably be a good life experience for you.
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    (Original post by Quady)
    Have had? Or have you got a new grad job now?
    Currently * have, lets just say I switched big four.

    Aren't you from another thread or am I confused lol.

    Edit: O yea I see where you're from, ohh no...you'll probably tell me 2+2=5

    PM me if you want maths tuition
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    (Original post by keliouster)
    Only people who think a 2:2 from Cambridge is equivalent to 2:1 from lower ranked universities are Oxbridge students/wannabe students/graduates. Some companies may target Oxbridge in particular but they too cut off graduates getting below a 2:1.

    Employers are not flexible. Not all of them are rigid multinationals but all of them are receiving hundreds/thousands of applicants all exceeding their minimal requirements so there is no reason to waste time probing further to find out why the minority of applicants under achieved, hoping maybe one of them is actually more qualified than some who meet the recommended requirements of the person specification. Most of them just want to spend less than a minute glancing at each CV when there's over a thousand of candidates to choose from. If you don't want employers weighing your formal qualifications so strictly then don't apply for a graduate scheme.

    Yes my view is biased but it's based on what a number of recruiters are admitting so it's fairly accurate compared to your idealistic view.
    A small number of recruiters. All for formal graduate programmes.

    Also, since most people apply before they graduate, how does your employer know your grades? Most grad schemes require a 2.1 to be predicted, but everyone gets that, but how many do you think would reject someone they gave an offer to if they got a 2.2? I doubt many - the recruitment process is long, and if you've impressed them enough to get an offer, most won't throw that away because of someone else's assessment of your academic knowledge.

    Taking the following facts together: the vast majority of graduates get jobs outside formal graduate programmes, including many of the very top grads (heads of big societies, people who've done special things) who don't bother entering the huge grad programme lottery; and that most applications even to formal graduate programmes are prior to getting your final grades, so only require a predicted 2.1; it seems clear that your argument is based on very shaky ground.

    Yes, not getting a 2.1 or better does mean you get autofiltered by many large firms. Just as not having a certain number of A level points/grades does (often AAB or ABB). But there are many employers that are more flexible that don't run huge graduate programmes, and even some of the main grad programmes accept 2.2s.

    Having a 2.1 is a huge benefit, and having a 2.2 does grant issues. But it's not the end of the world to get a 2.2, and it being from Cambridge does make a different to a lot of employers. I'm sure some would rather have a 2.2 from Cambridge than a 2.1 from an ex-poly, and I'm sure others would rather have the 2.1. It may even be the vast majority would rather have the person with the 2.1, I don't know. But to say university doesn't matter at all goes far too far.

    Frankly, for many grad programmes, having performed well at the internship is vastly more important than any of that. Companies tend to trust their own judgement of how someone's performed at the firm above what a university thinks of someone's academic ability.

    As for your first sentence, you could equally argue that the only people who believe all universities' degrees are equal are students/graduates of lower-ranked unis. But neither argument needs to hold. Comparing exams in my subject, and having gone to a prestigious uni for undergrad and a less-prestigious one for postgrad, I feel pretty confident in saying there is a different in the difficulty of the exams in economics. I don't know how big, or whether the more intensive tuition normalises this, but it is there.
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    (Original post by keliouster)
    You can argue a 2:1 from Cambridge gives a better first impression - but not 'worth more' other than that - compared to a 2:1 from a lower ranked university. A 2:2 from Cambridge is not worth more than a 2:2 from a lower ranked uni since they are BOTH equally worthless. By worthless I mean failure to meet the minimum 2:1 requirement set by nearly all employers looking to hire graduates. Nobody cares which uni you graduated from if they see a 2:2 and their personal specification says you need a 2:1. That's the reality.

    I know a number of recruiters who agrees with me. One of them even said a Cambridge 1st class graduate is like a guy walking into the interview room dressed formally when all others fail to adhere to the dress code. The others don't immediately get disqualified and the one wearing the suit only gets the better first impression advantage.
    l

    Definately agree with what you are saing in principle - but you are more likely to see exceptions to the 2.1 rule for oxbridge grads. The reason being that many grad roles are applied for and given before students have received their final degree classification - and they stipulate that the student achieves a 2.1. I have seen people still been given a training contract at a big 4 accounting firm even though they missed the 2.1 requirement because they came from oxbridge. At the same time, in the same year, graduates missing out on the 2.1 requirement from lower ranked unis had their offers recinded. Unfair I know - and like you say, this is much less likely when fll grades are given - however I have seen it happen first hand.
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    (Original post by keliouster)
    Only people who think a 2:2 from Cambridge is equivalent to 2:1 from lower ranked universities are Oxbridge students/wannabe students/graduates. Some companies may target Oxbridge in particular but they too cut off graduates getting below a 2:1.
    How many NatSci degrees have you done at Cambridge? (What the OP did.)

    You do realise, for example, that in Part 1A of Cambridge NatSci, you get given under 60% just for being in the bottom 30% of the year (in fact, the proportion who get under 60% might actually be higher than this)? I'm sure you are aware how able the entire NatSci year group is at Cambridge, and that even the people in the bottom 30% are averaging multiple A*s at A Level and would be among the most able in the year group at any other university.
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    (Original post by Chief Wiggum)
    How many NatSci degrees have you done at Cambridge? (What the OP did.)

    You do realise, for example, that in Part 1A of Cambridge NatSci, you get given under 60% just for being in the bottom 30% of the year (in fact, the proportion who get under 60% might actually be higher than this)? I'm sure you are aware how able the entire NatSci year group is at Cambridge, and that even the people in the bottom 30% are averaging multiple A*s at A Level and would be among the most able in the year group at any other university.
    What proportion of students get a 2.i or above?
    What is the drop out rate?

    Saying that 'only' 70% of people get good hons for 1A doesn't really give a represenative picture, particularly given any other NatSci offering uni would be delighted with that.
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    (Original post by Chief Wiggum)
    How many NatSci degrees have you done at Cambridge? (What the OP did.)

    You do realise, for example, that in Part 1A of Cambridge NatSci, you get given under 60% just for being in the bottom 30% of the year (in fact, the proportion who get under 60% might actually be higher than this)? I'm sure you are aware how able the entire NatSci year group is at Cambridge, and that even the people in the bottom 30% are averaging multiple A*s at A Level and would be among the most able in the year group at any other university.

    I didn't go to Cambridge. Went to Imperial College for my first degree but anyway. Multiple A*s at A level doesn't guarantee a student will get a high mark at every low-med ranking uni. Good luck trying to tell employers of graduate schemes this. Let me know if you make it to the interview stage and convince the employer to give you an extra ten minutes to talk about Cambridge's grading process.
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    (Original post by keliouster)
    I didn't go to Cambridge. Went to Imperial College for my first degree but anyway. Multiple A*s at A level doesn't guarantee a student will get a high mark at every low-med ranking uni. Good luck trying to tell employers of graduate schemes this. Let me know if you make it to the interview stage and convince the employer to give you an extra ten minutes to talk about Cambridge's grading process.
    I'm studying medicine, I'll never have to go through graduate scheme stuff, and I'm not sure why it would be relevant even if I did. (And why wouldn't I make it to the interview stage anyway? I've gotten 2.1s so far... Not sure why you're assuming my education history based on my post.)

    All I'm saying is, to say there's no difference in classifications between institutions is very naive. Do you think that if you took the lowest 30% of the Cambridge cohort, and dropped them in, say, Birmingham, they'd all get below 60% in first year? Honestly? Given that to even get an offer for Cambridge NatSci, you'd almost certainly need to be averaging over 90% in your A Levels, I find that very difficult to believe...
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    (Original post by Chief Wiggum)
    I'm studying medicine, I'll never have to go through graduate scheme stuff, and I'm not sure why it would be relevant even if I did. (And why wouldn't I make it to the interview stage anyway? I've gotten 2.1s so far... Not sure why you're assuming my education history based on my post.)

    All I'm saying is, to say there's no difference in classifications between institutions is very naive. Do you think that if you took the lowest 30% of the Cambridge cohort, and dropped them in, say, Birmingham, they'd all get below 60% in first year? Honestly? Given that to even get an offer for Cambridge NatSci, you'd almost certainly need to be averaging over 90% in your A Levels, I find that very difficult to believe...
    A levels are a prerequisite rather than an indicator of intelligence and problem solving ability. I'd suggest that the people struggling in Cambridge may well struggle in many other good institutions due to the different nature of the teaching methods and more rigorous examinations.
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    (Original post by Pendulum)
    A levels are a prerequisite rather than an indicator of intelligence and problem solving ability. I'd suggest that the people struggling in Cambridge may well struggle in many other good institutions due to the different nature of the teaching methods and more rigorous examinations.
    A Levels are the best predictor of Tripos success in Cambridge. http://www.admin.cam.ac.uk/news/spec...sion-study.pdf

    "it should be strongly stressed that, for all subjects other than Mathematics, AS UMS is
    overwhelmingly the best indicator in these models"
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    (Original post by Chief Wiggum)
    A Levels are the best predictor of Tripos success in Cambridge. http://www.admin.cam.ac.uk/news/spec...sion-study.pdf

    "it should be strongly stressed that, for all subjects other than Mathematics, AS UMS is
    overwhelmingly the best indicator in these models"
    This is saying as opposed to GCSE's etc
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    (Original post by ebam_uk)
    This is saying as opposed to GCSE's etc
    Not really, it's speaking in general: (although they do say that GCSEs are worse predictors as well)

    "Judgments depend upon circumstances, but, broadly speaking, in
    terms of predicting future success, exams achieving correlations above 0.35 are deemed good, those
    above 0.4 very good, and those above 0.5 excellent. Such correlations are by no means easy to
    establish and sustain in any educational context."


    " AS UMS have provided a sound to verging on excellent (mean = 0.38) indicator of Tripos potential
    in every major subject Cambridge offers, with the exception of Mathematics. In Mathematics AS
    has been a much less effective predictor than STEP."
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    its not where you've done your degree or what degree it is... It's how you use it and who you know.
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    Arrogance, laziness, and short-sightedness.

    I seriously wonder where it all went wrong for you, lad!
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    I'm gonna put my views across to you as simple as i can. You're a idiot. You got into cambridge, loads of people dream about that, but they can't go because theres only so many places or they arent good enough. Because of you going and not even giving a **** and just partying and getting with girls, you have denied someone the opportunity to perhaps fulfil a dream. Not only have you let them people down, but you've let your parents down after they've put alot of money into your education. Tbh, its all your fault, and i dont feel any sympathy for you.

    At least you recognise your mistake and take responsibility for it. I guess you're not sitting at home scrounging off benefits so you're not too bad.
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    (Original post by jackclarke1995)
    I'm gonna put my views across to you as simple as i can. You're a idiot. You got into cambridge, loads of people dream about that, but they can't go because theres only so many places or they arent good enough. Because of you going and not even giving a **** and just partying and getting with girls, you have denied someone the opportunity to perhaps fulfil a dream. Not only have you let them people down, but you've let your parents down after they've put alot of money into your education. Tbh, its all your fault, and i dont feel any sympathy for you.

    At least you recognise your mistake and take responsibility for it. I guess you're not sitting at home scrounging off benefits so you're not too bad.
    You realise the OP was asking for advise on what to do now, not sympathy or a kicking from a 16 year old?
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    (Original post by Quady)
    You realise the OP was asking for advise on what to do now, not sympathy or a kicking from a 16 year old?
    Why should i give advice to someone who I think is a ****? he's dug the hole, im not helping him out of it.
    Plus why does my age matter?
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    (Original post by Quady)
    You realise the OP was asking for advise on what to do now, not sympathy or a kicking from a 16 year old?
    The OP went to Cambridge therefore he's obviously the expert and better than the rest of us, so why is he asking for advice? :rolleyes:

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