Ayrton Senna vs Michael Schumacher if Senna hadn't been killed

What 'stats' do you want me to use to 'back up' my claims? Look at the facts for yourself....in 2005 and 2006, Renault dominated with Alonso driving for them. 2007 he leaves the team and they win no races. 2008 he comes back and wins 2 races for them. Those are the only stats you need...

Also, when Alonso went to McLaren he claimed that he 'brought 6 tenths a lap to the team'. Now he may have been a bit arrogant in saying that, but given his ability to win in the 3rd or 4th best car, there probably is a lot of truth to his claim.

"2007 Renault admitted they struggled with the Bridgestone tyres. Fisichella didn't really step upto the plate and got done by Heikki.
2008 Renault had a slow start, Alonson overdrove in the first part of the season, then they settled down and got some good results in the second half."

Alonso going back and forth doesn't mean ****. You CANT win a race if you don't have a decent enough car. He's not super human.

"6 tenths"? Wasn't much was it, he drew against a rookie- good going. He should've smashed Hamilton with how arrogant he was.

And also lol @ your stats. The reason you have no stats is because there isn't any! It's pure hearsay - the assumptions you make are amusing. He himself knew Renault domination wasn't going to last much longer- why do you think he jamp ship?

Is this the same Lauda that went on to say that Schumacher was the best driver a few years down the line?

That guy changes his tune every 5mins.

Let me tell you an interesting little story from when Damon Hill came to speak at the Oxford Union last year. I've just pasted it from somewhere else I posted it (hence the "last week").

Last week Damon Hill gave a (very enjoyable) speech at the Oxford Union, at the end of which he fielded a series of questions. Unfortunately I wasn't selected to ask my question as we ran out of time, so after the speech a friend and I went to the union bar for a quick drink before leaving. About ten minutes later Damon came into the bar with his wife and a couple of the union people for a quick drink, and just as he was leaving I went over to him and asked him "Damon, if you don't mind me interrupting you to ask a quick question - If hypothetically you were a team principal, and you were able to hire one of either Ayrton or Michael at their peaks, which would it be, and why?". He replied "hmm, very good question...", and after about ten seconds of silence replied "my heart says Ayrton...but my head says Michael".

It's worth pointing out that if Senna had lived he'd probably have gone to Ferrari instead of Schumacher (he always said he wanted to end his career there, plus Ferrari wanted him as their first choice at least until Senna's death). No Schumacher at Ferrari = no Byrne/Brawn dreamteam there, meaning Senna would be stuck in the midfield sniffing at odd wins until he retired. Schumacher/Brawn/Byrne meanwhile would be building on their 94/95 run of form and I strongly believe that with the continuity into 96 they would have walked the title that year, even with someone as good as Senna in the Ferrari. Of course Senna could have stayed at Williams and walked 95/96/97 (don't think he'd have won '94 with his points defecit he had to Schuey at the start) as Schuey went to Ferrari in '96.

If you get the Senna movie on DVD, on the box it says 'Senna was the greatest racing driver who ever lived' - Lauda.

'Senna was the greatest racing driver who ever lived' - Lauda.

...which makes it fact?

Look up Sir Jackie Stewart's list of top 5 racing drivers of all time. Senna's not even in his top 5, Alain Prost is.

Opinions, opinions.

What is it about all these ex F1 drivers and world champions voicing their opinions every 2 minutes in the media? Jackie Stewart is typical of this. He has a bee in his bonnet about Senna, but I think Senna was a much better driver than Stewart. Prost better than Senna? Yeah, right....that's why Prost was scared to be in the same team as Senna, as he knew Senna would beat him. Yet Senna was not afraid to take Prost on in equal equipment.

What is it about all these ex F1 drivers and world champions voicing their opinions every 2 minutes in the media?

Stirling Moss is another.

But I guess they're just responding to questions?

Stirling Moss is another.

Stirling Moss is a bigmouth and hypocrite. He recently said that 'Schumacher was lucky to win all those titles' and that 'he should retire'. That's a bit rich considering Moss won NO F1 titles in his career. Sound like he's jealous really.

I've just looked up Jackie Stewart's 'Top 5 F1 drivers of all time', and he put Stirling Moss in there! What did Moss achieve? How is he worthy of a top 5 rating when he didn't even win the F1 title?

He clearly would have won a title if he wasn't so gentlemanly and he had better cars at his disposal in his earlier career.

Lol....any driver can say they 'could've' won a title....IF this, IF that had happened. The fact is, he didn't win a title so he doesn't warrant a place in the top 5 drivers of all time.

Cool story, brah. As if a Formula 1 driver would visit a student union to give a speech. What's he going to talk to you about? A master's degree in motor racing? Lmao!

He clearly would have won a title if he wasn't so gentlemanly and he had better cars at his disposal in his earlier career.

Disagree. I personally wouldn't include some drivers who have won championships in my greatest drivers list. I wouldn't include Jacques Villeneuve or Keke Rosberg for example. In addition, Stirling was a more rounded driver and raced more than just F1 cars (Rallying, Sports cars etc).

Just because a driver didn't win a title in Formula one, doesn't mean that he was crap in any sense.

Lol come off it.

Fact is he didn't: if you want to win it's not about being a "gentleman". It's every man for himself.