Results are out! Find what you need...fast. Get quick advice or join the chat
Hey there Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free

Unjustified hell (on earth)

Announcements Posted on
    • Thread Starter
    • 3 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    Hello Poolopis,

    You wrote the following question:

    Didn't "god" visit unbelievable and unjustified hell on this good man, just like a criminal?
    I assume in your post that you are referring to Job? If not please, correct me as to whom you are referring.

    Concerning Job,

    Job was a man who endured trials that God allowed, accounted in Job 1:

    Job 1 (NIV)

    "20 At this, Job got up and tore his robe and shaved his head. Then he fell to the ground in worship 21 and said:

    “Naked I came from my mother’s womb,
    and naked I will depart.[Or will return there]
    The LORD gave and the LORD has taken away;
    may the name of the LORD be praised.”

    Although Job suffered greatly, he showed what was in his heart: goodness and love and unswerving faithfulness to God.

    People all over the world and for generations have suffered different horrible tragedies. Some react by cursing and becoming bitter and hating. Others react by clinging to their faith in God and and relying on God's goodness even when they can't see it working in their lives at that time. Job reacted with humility, grace, and faithfulness in the One he relied on for everything.

    About hell in the afterlife, if your question is about that, please let me know. Thanks.

    Peace and God bless you
    • 0 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Christianlady)
    Hello Poolopis,

    You wrote the following question:



    I assume in your post that you are referring to Job? If not please, correct me as to whom you are referring.

    Concerning Job,

    Job was a man who endured trials that God allowed, accounted in Job 1:

    Job 1 (NIV)

    "20 At this, Job got up and tore his robe and shaved his head. Then he fell to the ground in worship 21 and said:

    “Naked I came from my mother’s womb,
    and naked I will depart.[Or will return there]
    The LORD gave and the LORD has taken away;
    may the name of the LORD be praised.”

    Although Job suffered greatly, he showed what was in his heart: goodness and love and unswerving faithfulness to God.

    People all over the world and for generations have suffered different horrible tragedies. Some react by cursing and becoming bitter and hating. Others react by clinging to their faith in God and and relying on God's goodness even when they can't see it working in their lives at that time. Job reacted with humility, grace, and faithfulness in the One he relied on for everything.

    About hell in the afterlife, if your question is about that, please let me know. Thanks.

    Peace and God bless you
    basically, if there is a god, then his way of seeing if we're good enough for him is to put us through as much hurt/discomfort as possible to then see if we're not angry about it after?

    if this is what your perception of christianity is then i'm very glad i'm athiest.
    • Thread Starter
    • 3 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by montoya93)
    basically, if there is a god, then his way of seeing if we're good enough for him is to put us through as much hurt/discomfort as possible to then see if we're not angry about it after?
    Hello Montoya,

    Many Christians believe that life on earth is a test, a journey if you will. Have you ever heard of the classic, the Pilgrim's Progress?

    People who are not Christians also seem to have a mentality like this with competitions. For example, in reality shows, the contestants compete against each other. There is usually one winner and many losers.

    In Christian beliefs, people do not compete with each other. Rather, they are to strive to obey God and help each other grow. It's more a team effort, instead of a competition.

    if this is what your perception of christianity is then i'm very glad i'm athiest.
    You are of course free to believe whatever you want. I am glad of that.

    Peace and God bless you
    • 3 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    I agree with montoya93. Job was a good person before all of this trial stuff, and yet God took everything away from him. That doesn't sound like a very good way to keep your followers: to know that, if you're a good Christian, you may have everything taken away from you like you're God's little worthless plaything.
    • Thread Starter
    • 3 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by iamcharliewalsh)
    I agree with montoya93. Job was a good person before all of this trial stuff, and yet God took everything away from him. That doesn't sound like a very good way to keep your followers: to know that, if you're a good Christian, you may have everything taken away from you like you're God's little worthless plaything.
    Hello Charlie Walsh,

    I am curious why you think Job was a good person? How do you think Job became to be a good person? Do you think Job's beliefs in God have any bearing on his being a good person?

    I am an avid science fiction fan, and the idea of aliens is a popular topic in many science fiction stories. Why is that? Because many humans tend to like wondering if there is a form of life more intelligent than humans out there.

    For Christians, God is the Ultimate Intelligent Being, who created all other beings, including the life forms on earth. God is greater than humans like humans are greater than ants, though even greater because humans did not create ants. Christians believe that God is the Creator of life and so He can do with it as He wills.

    If you created something... let's say you created lots of robots. You could decide what is the fate of them all, couldn't you?

    One of my favorite shows is the Big Bang Theory... have you ever seen it? It's hilarious! I love it! One episode showed the brainy guys create a robot with the express purpose of it destroying other people's created robots. Were they bad to do that? While watching it with my husband, I just rolled my eyes and wondered what's wrong with men who use their intelligence to create silly destructive little robots when they could be doing something more worthwhile. My hubby told me "You don't understand men." This is true.

    People don't understand many things God does or allows, but that doesn't mean He is bad. Rather, it means we don't get the whole picture.

    Peace and God bless you
    • 3 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    The background at the beginning of the book of Job is that he is a pious and righteous man. In God's eyes, Job was a good person, and therefore blessed him with prosperity.
    I'm not saying that He is bad- not at all. I'm saying that He almost certainly doesn't exist.
    Oh, I see. So if there are any things which don't make any sense, they get dismissed as things that we don't understand?
    Here's an example: Symbiosis hat the.
    That sentence didn't make sense, but it's just because you don't understand. I can therefore take this literature I just created and use it to say that there is a deity.
    • Thread Starter
    • 3 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by iamcharliewalsh)
    The background at the beginning of the book of Job is that he is a pious and righteous man. In God's eyes, Job was a good person, and therefore blessed him with prosperity.
    Hello Charlie Walsh,

    God doesn't always bless every good person with prosperity. Actually, many good people have difficult journeys in their life and many stay quite poor (and yet are happy and joyful no matter what their economic situation are)

    I'm not saying that He is bad- not at all. I'm saying that He almost certainly doesn't exist.
    Oh. It is certainly your right to believe what you want. Many people throughout the ages believe that God does exist, however, which is their right as well.

    People have different experiences in life, and with those experiences, believe what they believe.

    Oh, I see. So if there are any things which don't make any sense, they get dismissed as things that we don't understand?
    Here's an example: Symbiosis hat the.
    That sentence didn't make sense, but it's just because you don't understand. I can therefore take this literature I just created and use it to say that there is a deity.
    A better example would be people who create a vehicle and then tell a person who has never seen a car how to create one without a model or lessons as to how. The person who has no idea will not understand, because they have not learned how or experienced what is being asked of him/her.

    I am not saying to dismiss what we don't understand, but to realize that we are not creators of life on earth. Even though scientists are growing in understanding by studying models of life already existing how to use those existing life materials in order to manipulate life forms, we still cannot create life out of nothing and therefore don't automatically understand the Being who can and does.

    Peace and God bless you
    • 0 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Christianlady)
    Hello Charlie Walsh,

    God doesn't always bless every good person with prosperity. Actually, many good people have difficult journeys in their life and many stay quite poor (and yet are happy and joyful no matter what their economic situation are)



    Oh. It is certainly your right to believe what you want. Many people throughout the ages believe that God does exist, however, which is their right as well.

    People have different experiences in life, and with those experiences, believe what they believe.



    A better example would be people who create a vehicle and then tell a person who has never seen a car how to create one without a model or lessons as to how. The person who has no idea will not understand, because they have not learned how or experienced what is being asked of him/her.

    I am not saying to dismiss what we don't understand, but to realize that we are not creators of life on earth. Even though scientists are growing in understanding by studying models of life already existing how to use those existing life materials in order to manipulate life forms, we still cannot create life out of nothing and therefore don't automatically understand the Being who can and does.

    Peace and God bless you
    It seems like you have a prethought out argument for everything. You're not adapting your stance to anything that's being said. For example, if god is so intelligent, such a higher being with ultimate power over us (as he created us) why did he allow hitler to be the instigator of the mass murder of millions of jews? If it's because of free will then surely he thought of installing a fail safe, to ensure that so many of them were given an equal chance to prove that they were good people, worthy of a place in heaven.
    • 3 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by montoya93)
    It seems like you have a prethought out argument for everything. You're not adapting your stance to anything that's being said. For example, if god is so intelligent, such a higher being with ultimate power over us (as he created us) why did he allow hitler to be the instigator of the mass murder of millions of jews? If it's because of free will then surely he thought of installing a fail safe, to ensure that so many of them were given an equal chance to prove that they were good people, worthy of a place in heaven.
    To take that argument a little further, if life is, as has been suggested, a test or journey towards some eternal reward, and God wants us to get through it, it begs the question as to whose rules God is adhering to. If his desired result is heaven for all, then why bother with a test at all. To use what I hope everyone will agree is a metaphor, why put the tree of knowledge in the garden at all? If God is testing us, in full and prior knowledge of the outcome, then he must be either evil or obeying rules set by some higher authority. It comes down to the old fashioned problem of evil. If God is omnipotent omniscient and benevolent, evil cannot exist. Evil does exist. Therefore God is either powerless to prevent it, in which case he is no God at all, incapable of foreseeing it, which makes him about the most unethical experimenter since Milgram decided to see if people would really electrocute a puppy, or evil.
    (secret hidden option 4, not real)
    • 5 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by montoya93)
    basically, if there is a god, then his way of seeing if we're good enough for him is to put us through as much hurt/discomfort as possible to then see if we're not angry about it after?

    if this is what your perception of christianity is then i'm very glad i'm athiest.
    That is one of the main messages of Christianity, if anyone who actually bothers to read the Bible will find out.
    • Thread Starter
    • 3 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by montoya93)
    It seems like you have a prethought out argument for everything. You're not adapting your stance to anything that's being said.
    Hello Montoya,

    No, it is not prethought out. I am looking at the bigger picture, however.

    For example, if god is so intelligent, such a higher being with ultimate power over us (as he created us) why did he allow hitler to be the instigator of the mass murder of millions of jews?
    Let me ask you something... do you think it's ok for people to kill bugs? Like, when people are not wanting cockroaches or ants in their house, is it ok for people to kill them? And people are not even the creators of bugs!

    God is so much bigger than people, we are like bugs in His eyes... so when God allows people to kill each other, it is not a factor of unintelligence, but rather the fact that God doesn't need us. I know that's a hard concept to understand for us humans/mere mortals who are naturally selfish and want the world to revolve around them, but it's true. God doesn't need us.

    Isaiah 40 (NIV) - I boldened some.

    " 21 Do you not know?
    Have you not heard?
    Has it not been told you from the beginning?
    Have you not understood since the earth was founded?
    22 He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth,
    and its people are like grasshoppers.
    He stretches out the heavens like a canopy,
    and spreads them out like a tent to live in.
    23 He brings princes to naught
    and reduces the rulers of this world to nothing.
    24 No sooner are they planted,
    no sooner are they sown,
    no sooner do they take root in the ground,
    than he blows on them and they wither,
    and a whirlwind sweeps them away like chaff.


    25 “To whom will you compare me?
    Or who is my equal?” says the Holy One.
    26 Lift up your eyes and look to the heavens:
    Who created all these?
    He who brings out the starry host one by one
    and calls forth each of them by name.
    Because of his great power and mighty strength,
    not one of them is missing. "

    Another important point is that God gave people free will. This means He did not create humans to be robots. In free will, there are many options available to us - one such option is killing others.

    Does God condone killing others? Let's see the first time a person murdered another person:

    Genesis 4 (NIV) - I boldened some.

    "8 Now Cain said to his brother Abel, “Let’s go out to the field.”[d] While they were in the field, Cain attacked his brother Abel and killed him.

    9 Then the LORD said to Cain, “Where is your brother Abel?”

    “I don’t know,” he replied. “Am I my brother’s keeper?”

    10 The LORD said, “What have you done? Listen! Your brother’s blood cries out to me from the ground. 11 Now you are under a curse and driven from the ground, which opened its mouth to receive your brother’s blood from your hand. 12 When you work the ground, it will no longer yield its crops for you. You will be a restless wanderer on the earth.”

    Cain exercised his free will to murder his brother. God punished him for it. Even though God doesn't need people and God gave people free will, God loves His Creation still. God's punishment against Cain for killing his brother is just. God is or will punish Hitler and all people (not just Hitler) who are guilty of murder as well.
    However, God does not take away the gift of free will, which is an inherit part of being a human.

    If it's because of free will then surely he thought of installing a fail safe, to ensure that so many of them were given an equal chance to prove that they were good people, worthy of a place in heaven.
    Christians believe that Jesus is the "fail safe" who ensures an equal chance...

    God is merciful. Even when He punished Cain, He provided him with protection in the way of a mark, to discourage anybody from killing him.

    Genesis 4 (NIV) - I boldened some.

    " 13 Cain said to the LORD, “My punishment is more than I can bear. 14 Today you are driving me from the land, and I will be hidden from your presence; I will be a restless wanderer on the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me.”

    15 But the LORD said to him, “Not so[e]; anyone who kills Cain will suffer vengeance seven times over.” Then the LORD put a mark on Cain so that no one who found him would kill him. 16 So Cain went out from the LORD’s presence and lived in the land of Nod,[f] east of Eden. "

    Peace and God bless you
    • 3 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Christianlady)
    Hello Montoya,

    No, it is not prethought out. I am looking at the bigger picture, however.



    Let me ask you something... do you think it's ok for people to kill bugs? Like, when people are not wanting cockroaches or ants in their house, is it ok for people to kill them? And people are not even the creators of bugs!

    God is so much bigger than people, we are like bugs in His eyes... so when God allows people to kill each other, it is not a factor of unintelligence, but rather the fact that God doesn't need us. I know that's a hard concept to understand for us humans/mere mortals who are naturally selfish and want the world to revolve around them, but it's true. God doesn't need us.
    Wow.

    1. Poor analogy. If people had created the bugs then it would work. A better analogy would be support for abortion at any stage of the pregnancy or life of the child.

    2. If your god does not care for you, why worship it?

    3. Calling people naturally selfish is a bit rich considering that the God you are defending supposedly created an entire universe with the express purpose of being told what a great guy he was by everyone in it.

    Also, do you believe satan exists?
    • Thread Starter
    • 3 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by chrisawhitmore)
    Wow.

    1. Poor analogy. If people had created the bugs then it would work. A better analogy would be support for abortion at any stage of the pregnancy or life of the child.

    Hello Crisawhitmore,

    I'm sorry. I forgot about the Student Room till today.

    Ok, then let's say people now have the ability to create bugs. There you go. (there are some people who absolutely would love to create a kind of living creature...)
    2. If your god does not care for you, why worship it?
    Christians believe that God does care for His Creation. This teaching is taught in the Tanakh as well as in the New Testament.

    Ezekiel 33 (NIV) - I boldened some.

    "10 “Son of man, say to the Israelites, ‘This is what you are saying: “Our offenses and sins weigh us down, and we are wasting away because of[b] them. How then can we live?”’ 11 Say to them, ‘As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn from their ways and live. Turn! Turn from your evil ways! Why will you die, people of Israel?’ "

    God is not a mean dictator who commands specific commands to a group of people just for fun. He wants the best for them. Why? Because He cares for them.


    3. Calling people naturally selfish is a bit rich considering that the God you are defending supposedly created an entire universe with the express purpose of being told what a great guy he was by everyone in it.
    People are naturally selfish. It's a known fact that even babies think about themselves and their needs. Do you think babies care that their moms are sleeping when they wake up crying for their needs to be met? Nope. They care about their needs being met. That is not bad. That is how God created babies to be... a crying baby means that the baby, who is helpless, needs something.

    As for God, I suppose if you created a living creation, you could decide what you wanted it to do, no, including worship you? What would you have your creation do, if you had the ability and power to create a living creation?
    Also, do you believe satan exists?
    Yes. I believe satan is a fallen angel.

    Peace and God bless you
    • 3 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Christianlady)
    Hello Crisawhitmore,

    I'm sorry. I forgot about the Student Room till today.

    Ok, then let's say people now have the ability to create bugs. There you go. (there are some people who absolutely would love to create a kind of living creature...)


    Christians believe that God does care for His Creation. This teaching is taught in the Tanakh as well as in the New Testament.

    Ezekiel 33 (NIV) - I boldened some.

    "10 “Son of man, say to the Israelites, ‘This is what you are saying: “Our offenses and sins weigh us down, and we are wasting away because of[b] them. How then can we live?”’ 11 Say to them, ‘As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn from their ways and live. Turn! Turn from your evil ways! Why will you die, people of Israel?’ "

    God is not a mean dictator who commands specific commands to a group of people just for fun. He wants the best for them. Why? Because He cares for them.




    People are naturally selfish. It's a known fact that even babies think about themselves and their needs. Do you think babies care that their moms are sleeping when they wake up crying for their needs to be met? Nope. They care about their needs being met. That is not bad. That is how God created babies to be... a crying baby means that the baby, who is helpless, needs something.

    As for God, I suppose if you created a living creation, you could decide what you wanted it to do, no, including worship you? What would you have your creation do, if you had the ability and power to create a living creation?


    Yes. I believe satan is a fallen angel.

    Peace and God bless you
    I always find Satan to be a bit illogical. It must be presumed that in a universe with an omnipotent God, everything exists at the tolerance of that God, so a Satan that spends its time tempting people to disobey that God must be doing so with the effective consent of that God, and so if someone is tempted by Satan, God, having the power to stop him and refusing to do so, is as guilty as Satan, and to punish the person for what they were tempted to do would be deeply unfair (it is basically the same as entrapment).

    To take a famous example you may or may not believe literally in, the snake in the Garden of Eden would presumably have existed at the tolerance of God, so when it tempted Eve, could God be legitimately angry at Eve or Satan for doing what he knew they would do if this situation arose (being omniscient). Really, the only one to blame is God, as he knew what would happen and not only did not prevent it from happening, but set up the garden in such a way as to let it happen. (There was very little necessity for a tree of knowledge). If he is a benevolent God, his actions simply make no sense, as he repeatedly chooses not to prevent it.

    The standard defense of 'free will' seems to be a legitimate one until you consider an analogous situation. If you put a child in a room with some rat poison which looked like sweets, told them not to eat them, and then sent someone else in to tell them to eat it, I can't imagine any court ruling that you are not to blame for the poisoning.
    • Thread Starter
    • 3 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by chrisawhitmore)
    I always find Satan to be a bit illogical. It must be presumed that in a universe with an omnipotent God, everything exists at the tolerance of that God, so a Satan that spends its time tempting people to disobey that God must be doing so with the effective consent of that God, and so if someone is tempted by Satan, God, having the power to stop him and refusing to do so, is as guilty as Satan, and to punish the person for what they were tempted to do would be deeply unfair (it is basically the same as entrapment).
    Understood.

    Satan means the adversary It is interesting that in many accounts, God allows the adversary to ...attack.

    Take for instance Job. Job's story is one of my husband's favorite books in the Bible.

    Job 1 (NIV) - I boldened some.

    "1 In the land of Uz there lived a man whose name was Job. This man was blameless and upright; he feared God and shunned evil. 2 He had seven sons and three daughters, 3 and he owned seven thousand sheep, three thousand camels, five hundred yoke of oxen and five hundred donkeys, and had a large number of servants. He was the greatest man among all the people of the East.

    4 His sons used to hold feasts in their homes on their birthdays, and they would invite their three sisters to eat and drink with them. 5 When a period of feasting had run its course, Job would make arrangements for them to be purified. Early in the morning he would sacrifice a burnt offering for each of them, thinking, “Perhaps my children have sinned and cursed God in their hearts.” This was Job’s regular custom.

    6 One day the angels[Hebrew the sons of God] came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan[Hebrew satan means adversary.] also came with them. 7 The LORD said to Satan, “Where have you come from?”

    Satan answered the LORD, “From roaming throughout the earth, going back and forth on it.”

    8 Then the LORD said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil.”

    9 “Does Job fear God for nothing?” Satan replied. 10 “Have you not put a hedge around him and his household and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, so that his flocks and herds are spread throughout the land. 11 But now stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face.”

    12 The LORD said to Satan, “Very well, then, everything he has is in your power, but on the man himself do not lay a finger.”

    Then Satan went out from the presence of the LORD. "


    Isn't that interesting? It is also interesting to me that in most movies nowadays, there is always an adversary it seems. I wonder why humans are fascinated with adversaries? Is it because we have an adversary to the human race?

    To take a famous example you may or may not believe literally in, the snake in the Garden of Eden would presumably have existed at the tolerance of God, so when it tempted Eve, could God be legitimately angry at Eve or Satan for doing what he knew they would do if this situation arose (being omniscient). Really, the only one to blame is God, as he knew what would happen and not only did not prevent it from happening, but set up the garden in such a way as to let it happen. (There was very little necessity for a tree of knowledge). If he is a benevolent God, his actions simply make no sense, as he repeatedly chooses not to prevent it.

    It is true that God does not choose to prevent adversary, or attacks. However, most Christians believe it is a test, that life is a test to see if people will obey Him or not. So, even though I understand how come you would see God as not being benevolent, many Christians believe God is above right and wrong, meaning Christians believe it is the right of God to create and to kill, according to what He wants to do.

    About God's benevolence, Christians see God's mercy and grace in that God did not destroy Adam and Eve, but rather made them more mortal, you could say... that their bodies were decaying, although Christians believe that after death, Christians receive a new body and are in Heaven... that we see is God's benevolence.

    The standard defense of 'free will' seems to be a legitimate one until you consider an analogous situation. If you put a child in a room with some rat poison which looked like sweets, told them not to eat them, and then sent someone else in to tell them to eat it, I can't imagine any court ruling that you are not to blame for the poisoning.
    Understood.
    • 12 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Christianlady)
    Hello Poolopis,

    You wrote the following question:



    I assume in your post that you are referring to Job? If not please, correct me as to whom you are referring.

    Concerning Job,

    Job was a man who endured trials that God allowed, accounted in Job 1:

    Job 1 (NIV)

    "20 At this, Job got up and tore his robe and shaved his head. Then he fell to the ground in worship 21 and said:

    “Naked I came from my mother’s womb,
    and naked I will depart.[Or will return there]
    The LORD gave and the LORD has taken away;
    may the name of the LORD be praised.”

    Although Job suffered greatly, he showed what was in his heart: goodness and love and unswerving faithfulness to God.

    People all over the world and for generations have suffered different horrible tragedies. Some react by cursing and becoming bitter and hating. Others react by clinging to their faith in God and and relying on God's goodness even when they can't see it working in their lives at that time. Job reacted with humility, grace, and faithfulness in the One he relied on for everything.

    About hell in the afterlife, if your question is about that, please let me know. Thanks.

    Peace and God bless you
    This is a contradiction, how can a god be considered 'good' if he doesn't fit what we as humans perceive to be 'good'. If I hit you in the face with a sledgehammer and then tell you that it's because I am 'good', you will rightly say, or at least try to say through your now horribly disfigured face, 'no its because you're an ******* with a sledgehammer'.

    If god is able but is not willing, how can he be considered good?
    If god is willing but not able, then he can't be omnipotent?
    • Thread Starter
    • 3 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Ocassus)
    This is a contradiction, how can a god be considered 'good' if he doesn't fit what we as humans perceive to be 'good'.
    Hello Ocassus,

    Christians believe that humans' concept of good comes from God's concept of good, so actually our perception of good depends on God. For example, Christians believe that stealing is wrong because one of the ten commandments that God gave to the children of Israel through Moses is "Do not steal." Now, is this a natural tendency humans have, to not steal? Think of a baby. Have you ever seen a baby grab a toy from another baby? The baby has no clue he or she just stole the toy, even though he/she did. Think of animals... a happy dog can bury his bone, and the next moment, another dog can go and get it. Does the dog know he/she is stealing? Nope. He/she just wants the bone! So, humans understand that stealing is wrong first because God told them so, and humans understood.

    If I hit you in the face with a sledgehammer and then tell you that it's because I am 'good', you will rightly say, or at least try to say through your now horribly disfigured face, 'no its because you're an ******* with a sledgehammer'.
    Lol. It is sad but many people seem to think that God is a mean nasty dictator who will bounce on and torture for eternity any person who does wrong. That is not the case. Even when Adam and Eve sinned (by eating from the tree from which God told them not to eat) God didn't kill them. He did make them more mortal, however, but He didn't hit them in the face with a sledgehammer!

    If god is able but is not willing, how can he be considered good?
    If god is willing but not able, then he can't be omnipotent?
    God is able and willing. However, God wants people to have faith in Him. I used to question why God doesn't just show Himself to everyone. However, I have learned that life on earth is like a test... those who want to engage in the temporary pleasures of this world, can. Those who want to use their time on earth to seek God, can.

    John 14 (NIV) - I boldened some.

    "22 Then Judas (not Judas Iscariot) said, “But, Lord, why do you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world?”

    23 Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them. 24 Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching.
    These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me. "

    Peace and God bless you

Reply

Submit reply

Register

Thanks for posting! You just need to create an account in order to submit the post
  1. this can't be left blank
    that username has been taken, please choose another Forgotten your password?
  2. this can't be left blank
    this email is already registered. Forgotten your password?
  3. this can't be left blank

    6 characters or longer with both numbers and letters is safer

  4. this can't be left empty
    your full birthday is required
  1. By joining you agree to our Ts and Cs, privacy policy and site rules

  2. Slide to join now Processing…

Updated: March 21, 2012
New on TSR

THE world university rankings 2014-2015 revealed

Will they affect your uni choices?

Article updates
Useful resources
Reputation gems:
You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.